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Old 24th May 2014, 15:22   #1  |  Link
Reel.Deel
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nnedi3 vs NeuronDoubler

A couple of weeks ago I was looking for something and I stumbled across NeuronDoubler, a program that upscales images similar to nnedi3.
NeuronDoubler is not an Avisynth plugin and it's super slow compared to nnedi3 but the output (IMO) can sometimes be better than nnedi3.
It has a sharper output than nnedi3 but it's also a bit more prone to aliasing (go figure). Anyways, I compared some images between the two
and I'd like to share the results. If you guys have better examples showing the good and the bad please share. Also, any feedback is welcomed.

You can download NeuronDoubler here: http://loggialogic.blogspot.com/2014/03/neurondoubler-v321.html
That page is in Japanese but the actual program is in English. I don't think NeuronDoubler is open source but the author said it's "free software".



Also, here's a quick video from Wirewriggle (the author) illustrating how NeuronDoubler works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMXLpFz_Tt4
In the comments section the author lists the recommended requirements and additional info in English.

-------

All of the following images were upscaled by 4x and I used the following settings for nnedi3:
Code:
nnedi3_rpow2(rfactor=4, cshift="spline36resize")

Car Show:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Castle:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Cat:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Clown:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Flowers:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Lighthouse:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Meter:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


"wc":

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]

-----

Just for fun, some pixel art (here I like nnedi3 more but both have their pros and cons, obviously):

Gundam Wing:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]


Street Fighter:

[nnedi3]
[NeuronDoubler]
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Old 24th May 2014, 16:24   #2  |  Link
feisty2
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I guess u can get a similar result with nnedi3+awarpsharp
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Old 24th May 2014, 18:59   #3  |  Link
SEt
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To me it looks like NeuronDoubler just have way more ringing.
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Old 24th May 2014, 23:57   #4  |  Link
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NeuronDoubler looks slightly artificial to me. It has a tad of "oil painting" look.


Btw, old video games look best if resized by PointResize in powers of 2 imo...

Last edited by TheSkiller; 24th May 2014 at 23:59.
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Old 25th May 2014, 01:33   #5  |  Link
foxyshadis
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The output looks nearly identical to nnedi3+edge enhancement (like unsharp mask), frankly. That's a feat on its own, but nnedi3 is much faster and lets you use better sharpening.

I was hoping the NeuronDoubler_Algorithm.png document would have details about the training or sharpening, but it mostly describes an abstract of the process. (What the problem is, what neural networks are, that ND has relatively few neurons (64) but sufficient for correct recognition, then about the non-neural logic: that it does basic pattern matching first, that it decides on flat areas that skip neural processing, that it pre-analyzes the angles to pass to neural, and that it will correct pixels with low confidence (with basic resizing?).) There is one interesting tidbit: It always analyses at maximum size (super-resolution, I'm assuming 32x, but maybe 4x repeatedly?), then shrinks as necessary to fit your desired zoom level. I haven't had time to hunt through the site for more.

One line did amuse me: "Each partition processing is performed by professionals," pointing to the neurons.
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Old 25th May 2014, 06:34   #6  |  Link
Reel.Deel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEt View Post
To me it looks like NeuronDoubler just have way more ringing.
Indeed, with sharp images it creates very noticeable ringing, it seems it works best on soft images. For example, NeuronDoubler IMO worked well with the flowers image. I wonder what makes nnedi3 so well balanced? Much more robust neural network/training data?

------

@foxyshadis

Interesting information, kinda sad that ND is only using 64 neurons. nnedi3_rpow2 by default uses 128. Judging by the speed I assumed ND was processing everything at it's highest quality possible, I guess that's not the case.

Edit: Regarding nnedi3+edge enhancement, tritical was working on nnedi4 and nnsharpen. The results looked great, I wonder why tritical never released it? For those interested you can find some examples of nnedi4+nnsharpen here.

Last edited by Reel.Deel; 25th May 2014 at 07:28.
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Old 26th May 2014, 14:48   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Btw, old video games look best if resized by PointResize in powers of 2 imo...
Well there's also XBR, which doesn't look too shabby either. (In addition to being very fast.)
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Old 26th May 2014, 18:01   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post
Btw, old video games look best if resized by PointResize in powers of 2 imo...
http://board.byuu.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4719
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Old 27th May 2014, 10:36   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloax View Post
Well there's also XBR, which doesn't look too shabby either. (In addition to being very fast.)
Cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by creaothceann View Post
Also cool!

There's a heck of a wealth of cool shaders out there these days. I'm so glad to live in a time when each individual player doesn't have to build-in (or have a plugin for) everything, plus they're all open source by design.

Maybe someday, set-top boxes and game consoles will support custom shaders.
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Old 15th April 2015, 15:53   #10  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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Download NeuronDoubler 3.21 release 2

How can I download this software? I get this site https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByGf...ZFU/edit?pli=1, but there is no way of downloading, because the sub-links takes to nowhere.
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Old 15th April 2015, 18:15   #11  |  Link
davidhorman
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Click the download icon (downward arrow above horizontal bar) on the top middle of the page.
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Old 15th April 2015, 19:13   #12  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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Is NeuronDoubler good?

NeuronDoubler is better than NNEDI3 and Spline 100 (5 taps)?
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Old 15th April 2015, 19:26   #13  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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How to install NeuronDoubler?

The Windows doesn't open the .bat file included on NeuronDoubler folder.
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Old 15th April 2015, 21:30   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luquinhas0021 View Post
The Windows doesn't open the .bat file included on NeuronDoubler folder.
Do you have Java installed?
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Old 15th April 2015, 21:47   #15  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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Yes, i have Java 7 Update 45. Why?
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Old 15th April 2015, 21:53   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luquinhas0021 View Post
Yes, i have Java 7 Update 45. Why?
Because Java is required. Since you just posted a vague "Batch file does not open", this was my first guess.

Use google translate on this or this page.

Last edited by Groucho2004; 15th April 2015 at 22:01.
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Old 15th April 2015, 21:56   #17  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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You already tested this algorithm? It is good (Better than NNEDI3 and Spline 100)?
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Old 15th April 2015, 22:02   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luquinhas0021 View Post
You already tested this algorithm?
No, just looked at the batch files.
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Old 15th April 2015, 22:12   #19  |  Link
luquinhas0021
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Have you ever tested some upscaling algorithm? If yes, which? What do you guess the best?
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Old 15th April 2015, 22:20   #20  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luquinhas0021 View Post
Have you ever tested some upscaling algorithm? If yes, which? What do you guess the best?
All I upscale nowadays are my PAL DVDs using just a horizontal Spline36Resize, 720x576 -> 1024x576 and then re-encode with x264 for playback with a media player.

I did some upscaling experiments in the past and I found nnedi3_rpow2 quite pleasing.
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