RB-Opt v0.23 BETA a tool to change titles bitrate, CCE parameters and AVS scripts. - Page 11

robot1 · 30th December 2004, 18:02

1. Could you send me the rebuilder.ini and rebuilder.inf files?
I can't reproduce the crash. PM me for details.
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.
4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?
The same thing happens for the external player.
DVD-RB uses the right framerate in remuxing, so the output will be always fine.
5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.

berndy2001 · 30th December 2004, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by robot1
3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.

in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100%

robot1 · 30th December 2004, 20:56

Quote:

Originally posted by berndy2001
in the new RB 0.70, there is a mode called "No Compression". you can use it, to demux your dvd. just copy the m2v-files of your chice to another folder.
(if you are not a vip, use the ReJig-Mode.)

after encoding copy them back.
don't forget to set the related cells in rb-opt to 100%

govenar · 31st December 2004, 01:31

Quote:

Originally posted by robot1
2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed

The problem is that even after I uncheck "hide vob-ids...", it won't let me change the bitrate. Autosized is checked, and greyed out so that I can't uncheck it. (And OPV is selected. I tried checking "Enable OPV for small Vob-IDs" but that didn't help; the VBR/OPV options are greyed out so I can't change them.)

Quote:

3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB.

Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).

With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?

Quote:

4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?

If you always use 29.97 then that will break PAL DVDs? You could add a button to RB-Opt to let the user choose between NTSC & PAL.
Or, could RB be modified to save the original frame rate somewhere like rebuilder.ini so that RB-Opt can read it?

Quote:

5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.

If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell?

jdobbs · 31st December 2004, 10:53

Quote:

4. The Duration shown by RB-Opt is 162 minutes, but the correct time is 129 minutes. I guess this is related to 23.976/29.97 fps. (Also when I view a Preview, it's played at the wrong speed, and the external player also shows the wrong 162 minute time.) The final DVD output is fine so it's not a huge deal, just annoying.

All NTSC files are set to 23.976 when encoding -- this is purposeful and is part of the solution for properly encoding hybrid (23.876/29.97) sources. DVD-RB resets the output speeds back to those in the original source during "REBUILD". It's a lot less "annoying" than an incorrectly encoded movie.

jdobbs · 31st December 2004, 10:58

Quote:

4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's *ALWAYS* at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97?

No. Because sources that are telecined only have 23.976 frames physically present in the MPEG stream for each second -- even though the the playback may be at 29.97. The additional pseudo frames are generated from those existing and inserted only to meet the NTSC standard fps. When played back through a progressive player/monitor -- the playback is at 23.976, resulting in a superior picture that matches the original film source.

robot1 · 31st December 2004, 14:06

Quote:

Originally posted by govenar
Ok.. I guess in addition to swapping the .m2v files as berndy2001 suggested, I could also just edit the final dvd image later with a re-authoring program to replace the vobs (assuming that I can get around the above problem and set reduction to 100% so they'll be the same size).

You can swap the .m2v files without harm. The settings are grayed out because for short segments DVD-RB uses CBR instead of VBR, so it's not modifiable.
Size is small and you'll have no problems.

Quote:

With this new RB 0.70 "No Compression" mode, could RB-Opt apply that to only certain Vob-IDs while still compressing others?

It's not possible: The prepare phase is different when you use "No compression" from the normal one.

Quote:

If I don't tweak single cells though, then linking won't affect anything? So I shouldn't bother to link them unless I tweak a single cell?

If you don't tweak single cells, you don't need to link.

MAPE · 19th January 2005, 13:25

My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks.

robot1 · 19th January 2005, 21:27

Quote:

Originally posted by MAPE
My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates.
Tks.

What if you open the Rebuilder.inf you've saved in RB-Opt again?
Do you find the modified value (1800)?
It's the fastest way to check.
I haven't tested RB-Opt with the newer versions of CCE. Probably I'll post an updated version next week (now working to ECLPro...)

robot1 · 2nd February 2005, 17:47

This is an intermediate version, just with a bugfix and initial
support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).
I hope for the weekend to have a full CCE 2.70 support.

CHANGES:
- Added compatibility to CCE 2.70 in OPV mode
- Fixed a bug in "Reset Bitrates" options
- Added QLB matrix (used in QuEnc by Nic and Dragongodz)

KNOWN ISSUES
- Filters don't work properly with CCE 2.70. Please, avoid filters usage with this CCE version.
- Quantizer Characteristics for CCE 2.70 limited to 64 (and not to 100).

RB-Opt v0.16 Mirror by DVDRebuilder.com

archaeo · 2nd February 2005, 19:50

Quote:

...support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode).

and it works very well in OPV!

a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

TheSeeker · 2nd February 2005, 21:00

Quote:

Originally posted by archaeo
and it works very well in OPV!
a great tool.

As I mentioned in another thread, I noticed some undersizing issues at low Q-values using Rebuilder with CCE 2.70. Using RB-Opt, the same project came in perfectly at 4.32 Gb.

I had the exact same experience with 2.70. My dvd came in at 3.59 gb using dvd rb's prediction. With rb-opt using double pass prediction it came in at 4.33!! This tool just keeps getting better and better.

robot1 · 2nd February 2005, 22:13

kheops · 12th February 2005, 00:18

hi all

i think i'll mainly use RB-Opt to use custom matrices (the one from the original dvd)
is there a program to extract this matrice from a vob file AND create a valid matrice file for RB-Opt ?

many thanks

robot1 · 12th February 2005, 08:59

I know of just one program to check matrices:
Restream
Anyway it needs the .m2v or .mpv file, so you have to demux a VOB to check the matrices.

The format of the eclpro matrices is simple: it's plain text starting with a tab, and then a row of the matrix.
Example:

Code:

	08 16 20 23 27 30 32 34
	16 16 23 24 29 31 34 38
	20 23 27 28 30 35 38 40
	23 24 28 29 35 39 40 44
	27 29 30 35 39 42 45 50
	30 31 35 39 42 46 54 59
	32 34 38 40 45 54 62 72
	34 38 40 44 50 59 72 84
	17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31
	19 21 23 25 27 28 29 33
	21 23 25 27 29 30 32 37
	23 25 27 30 31 34 40 45
	25 27 29 31 38 46 54 60
	27 28 30 34 46 58 72 74
	29 29 32 40 54 72 90 100
	31 33 37 45 60 74 100 124

The first 8 lines are the one of the intra matrix.
The second 8 lines are the non intra matrix.

kheops · 12th February 2005, 10:11

thanks robot1 for your answer

i might give you this link :

http://www.dvdcreation.net/download.php?id=4776

Matrix Extractor v1.10 is really great and allow extracting the matrices from a vob file and export them in the registry or in plain text

before encoding i've used this setting in my rebuilder.ecl file

qmat=
08 08 09 11 13 13 14 17
08 08 11 12 13 14 17 18
09 11 13 13 14 17 17 16
11 11 13 13 13 17 18 20
11 13 13 13 16 17 20 24
13 13 13 16 17 20 24 29
13 12 13 17 19 23 28 34
12 13 17 19 23 28 34 41
08 08 08 09 09 09 09 10
08 08 09 09 09 09 10 10
08 09 09 09 09 10 10 10
09 09 09 09 10 10 10 10
09 09 09 10 10 10 10 11
09 09 10 10 10 10 11 11
09 10 10 10 10 11 11 11
10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11

in the vob files created, the matrices are

8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9
8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 8
8 8 8 8 8 9 9 10
8 8 8 8 8 9 10 12
8 8 8 8 9 10 12 15
8 8 8 9 10 12 14 17
8 8 9 10 12 14 17 21

8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8

i'll try to investigate, if you could give me a hint

edit : i've used cce to encode

robot1 · 12th February 2005, 10:50

CCE version used?
If you load the .ecl with CCE, can you check if the matrix is correct?
Can you try encoding with RB-Opt and selecting one of the enclosed matrices, if the result is correct?

kheops · 12th February 2005, 20:50

cce is 2.70.01.05
the ecl loads fine in cce and the matrices setting is correct (the "preset" choice is empty)

i'm doing encoding right now, will give the results

robot1 · 12th February 2005, 20:57

CCE 2.70 has an "Adaptive Q Matrix switching".
I don't know if it can change the matrix automatically... anyway, I'll add an option to disable this behaviour.

RitchieMad · 13th February 2005, 02:06

An EXCELLENT and friendly tool...
I couldn't get right output size on my In Extremo DVD, but once I used RB and set higher bitrate I hit 4.6Gb size. I was lucky, but that's also a proof this tool works!

19th January 2005, 13:25	#208 \| Link
MAPE Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 7	Is Rb-Opt working with Dvd-Rb 0.70+? My question refers that I did some encodes tweaking the end credits bitrate and after saving the changes in Rb-opt, I opened the .Ecl in notepad and noticed that the avg bitrate for this cell was not modified. I linked all Vts in rb-opt and decreased bitrate of the last cell to 1800 avg. and when checked in notepad still was over 2800. Other parameters like CCE's filters, quality precission, bias were correctly modified and saved except the one concerning bitrates. Tks.

2nd February 2005, 17:47	#210 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650	RB-Opt v0.16 This is an intermediate version, just with a bugfix and initial support for CCE 2.70 (OPV mode). I hope for the weekend to have a full CCE 2.70 support. CHANGES: - Added compatibility to CCE 2.70 in OPV mode - Fixed a bug in "Reset Bitrates" options - Added QLB matrix (used in QuEnc by Nic and Dragongodz) KNOWN ISSUES - Filters don't work properly with CCE 2.70. Please, avoid filters usage with this CCE version. - Quantizer Characteristics for CCE 2.70 limited to 64 (and not to 100). RB-Opt v0.16 Mirror by DVDRebuilder.com

12th February 2005, 08:59	#215 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650	I know of just one program to check matrices: Restream Anyway it needs the .m2v or .mpv file, so you have to demux a VOB to check the matrices. The format of the eclpro matrices is simple: it's plain text starting with a tab, and then a row of the matrix. Example: Code: 08 16 20 23 27 30 32 34 16 16 23 24 29 31 34 38 20 23 27 28 30 35 38 40 23 24 28 29 35 39 40 44 27 29 30 35 39 42 45 50 30 31 35 39 42 46 54 59 32 34 38 40 45 54 62 72 34 38 40 44 50 59 72 84 17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31 19 21 23 25 27 28 29 33 21 23 25 27 29 30 32 37 23 25 27 30 31 34 40 45 25 27 29 31 38 46 54 60 27 28 30 34 46 58 72 74 29 29 32 40 54 72 90 100 31 33 37 45 60 74 100 124 The first 8 lines are the one of the intra matrix. The second 8 lines are the non intra matrix.

12th February 2005, 10:11	#216 \| Link
kheops Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 202	thanks robot1 for your answer i might give you this link : http://www.dvdcreation.net/download.php?id=4776 Matrix Extractor v1.10 is really great and allow extracting the matrices from a vob file and export them in the registry or in plain text before encoding i've used this setting in my rebuilder.ecl file qmat= 08 08 09 11 13 13 14 17 08 08 11 12 13 14 17 18 09 11 13 13 14 17 17 16 11 11 13 13 13 17 18 20 11 13 13 13 16 17 20 24 13 13 13 16 17 20 24 29 13 12 13 17 19 23 28 34 12 13 17 19 23 28 34 41 08 08 08 09 09 09 09 10 08 08 09 09 09 09 10 10 08 09 09 09 09 10 10 10 09 09 09 09 10 10 10 10 09 09 09 10 10 10 10 11 09 09 10 10 10 10 11 11 09 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 in the vob files created, the matrices are 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 10 8 8 8 8 8 9 10 12 8 8 8 8 9 10 12 15 8 8 8 9 10 12 14 17 8 8 9 10 12 14 17 21 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 i'll try to investigate, if you could give me a hint edit : i've used cce to encode Last edited by kheops; 12th February 2005 at 10:14.

13th February 2005, 02:06	#220 \| Link
RitchieMad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Czech Rep Posts: 2	RB-Opt v0.16Beta An EXCELLENT and friendly tool... I couldn't get right output size on my In Extremo DVD, but once I used RB and set higher bitrate I hit 4.6Gb size. I was lucky, but that's also a proof this tool works! __________________ This Planet Earth Is Great To Visit, But You Wouldn't Want To Live There ...

30th December 2004, 18:02	#201 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650	1. Could you send me the rebuilder.ini and rebuilder.inf files? I can't reproduce the crash. PM me for details. 2. Small VodID doesn't take much space, so I prefer leave them untouched, as DVD-RB decided. To change their bitrate, you have to uncheck "hide vod-id..." as you noticed 3. 100% doesn't means "no compression". You will do a CCE pass, using the same bitrate of the original cell. If you want the original cell, it's not simple! You have to demux the original .m2v stream from the VOB. RB-Keeper did this job, but I think it's not compatible with current DVD-RB. 4. Yes, duration is wrong. As I'm in PAL land, I've a question: is it always wrong? DVD-RB reports always a 23.976 framerate, so RB-Opt is wrong in calculation. Are DVD's ALWAYS at 29.97, so it's safe to use always a framerate of 29.97? The same thing happens for the external player. DVD-RB uses the right framerate in remuxing, so the output will be always fine. 5. Linking Vob-ID is useful (and "mandatory") if you tweak single cells, but it cause no harm. It can be used to group items, and doesn't mess navigation. It affects only the bitrate distribution.

2nd February 2005, 22:13	#213 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650

12th February 2005, 00:18	#214 \| Link
kheops Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 202	hi all i think i'll mainly use RB-Opt to use custom matrices (the one from the original dvd) is there a program to extract this matrice from a vob file AND create a valid matrice file for RB-Opt ? many thanks

12th February 2005, 10:50	#217 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650	CCE version used? If you load the .ecl with CCE, can you check if the matrix is correct? Can you try encoding with RB-Opt and selecting one of the enclosed matrices, if the result is correct?

12th February 2005, 20:50	#218 \| Link
kheops Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 202	cce is 2.70.01.05 the ecl loads fine in cce and the matrices setting is correct (the "preset" choice is empty) i'm doing encoding right now, will give the results

12th February 2005, 20:57	#219 \| Link
robot1 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 650	CCE 2.70 has an "Adaptive Q Matrix switching". I don't know if it can change the matrix automatically... anyway, I'll add an option to disable this behaviour.