madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

Limited and full are independent of chroma sampling. However, you cannot have chroma sampling and be RGB so your TV must be converting to YCbCr. Weather it converts to limited or full YCbCr will be harder to check.

[mysterix]

Does exist any utility which can show percent of VideoMemory bandwidth loading on AMD's (particularly, on my HD5450)? I know such utility exists for Nvidia cards definitely, but what about AMD? GPU-Z does not show that parameter for AMD cards...

[panetesan2k6]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Limited and full are independent of chroma sampling. However, you cannot have chroma sampling and be RGB so your TV must be converting to YCbCr.

Thanks for that, it's the conclussion I was looking for

Weather it converts to limited or full YCbCr will be harder to check.

I'll try to check this and will report back.

[Qaq]

Originally Posted by mysterix

Does exist any utility which can show percent of VideoMemory bandwidth loading on AMD's (particularly, on my HD5450)? I know such utility exists for Nvidia cards definitely, but what about AMD? GPU-Z does not show that parameter for AMD cards...

5450 is just very limited in this regard. And too weak for madVR in general. If you prefer fanless AMD cards you may want to upgrade to fanless 7750 (like I did) to get more power for madVR and more sensors for GPU-Z.

[xabregas]

Hi, i just bought an nvidia gt 750 ti alongside with a smartv 1080p and im having several presentation glitches when i play 1080p movie at 1080p resolution, while i dont see any glitche at all, madvr ctrl j shows many...

The problem dont seem to happen while playing 720p movies upscaled to 1080p wit jinc 3 ar on chroma and luma. Only when i play 1080p movies (which dont need any upscale or downscale) the glitches appear.

I use Full screen exclusive mode...

Guess if the gpu dont do upscale/downscale, it wont be used and the fullscreen exclusive mode needs the gpu to do something???

TIA

[huhn]

you can disable FSE mode.

even with a 1080p source at a 1080p screen there is a lot to do.
chroma upscaling, dithering.

[Anime Viewer]

Originally Posted by xabregas

Hi, i just bought an nvidia gt 750 ti alongside with a smartv 1080p and im having several presentation glitches when i play 1080p movie at 1080p resolution, while i dont see any glitche at all, madvr ctrl j shows many...

The problem dont seem to happen while playing 720p movies upscaled to 1080p wit jinc 3 ar on chroma and luma. Only when i play 1080p movies (which dont need any upscale or downscale) the glitches appear.

I use Full screen exclusive mode...

Guess if the gpu dont do upscale/downscale, it wont be used and the fullscreen exclusive mode needs the gpu to do something???

TIA

Even when its not supposed to do upscaling (1080 -> 1080) it still tries to, and uses up resources. I recommend you make rules. For the 1080 rule choose DXVA2 which for all intensive purposes will disable all the other upscaling options, and give you the highest probably of having glitch free playback at that resolution.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

Even when its not supposed to do upscaling (1080 -> 1080) it still tries to, and uses up resources. I recommend you make rules. For the 1080 rule choose DXVA2 which for all intensive purposes will disable all the other upscaling options, and give you the highest probably of having glitch free playback at that resolution.

What? This isn't true. DXVA2 will be fast and ok quality but there isn't any "it still tries to, and uses up resources" going on. Chroma upscaling, conversion to RGB, debanding (if enabled), smooth motion (if enabled), and dithering still needs to be done for 1080p displayed at 1920x1080.

@xabregas
The 750 Ti should be find for 1080p at 1920x1080 with Jinc3 AR for chroma scaling. Have you changed the dithering options or smooth motion? How about using Bicubic 75+AR for chroma scaling?

Also try with Full screen exclusive disabled and Windowed Overlay enabled.

Which motherboard do you have, madVR likes bandwidth so if you are on something very old there might be an issue there.

[vivan]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

Even when its not supposed to do upscaling (1080 -> 1080) it still tries to, and uses up resources.

What? No. You can easily prove it by choosing heavy upscaling algorithm and checking rendering time at 100% zoom and at higher one (like view -> video frame -> zoom 1),

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

For the 1080 rule choose DXVA2 which for all intensive purposes will disable all the other upscaling options, and give you the highest probably of having glitch free playback at that resolution.

It shouldn't change anything. However even if it did - it would only harm quality, since using DXVA-things drops precision to 8 bit, which leads to banding. I would recommend never using them, unless you're using intel GPU and very limited with resourses.

[innocenat]

Hello,

Not sure if this is reported: madVR doesn't work (it only renders first frame and died [not crashing]) for me if I set it to use external graphic instead of integrated graphic in optimus setup.

- madVR 0.82.10
- Intel i7-4710HQ (mobile processor)
- nVidia GTX850M

It work fine if I set it to use integrated graphics only, but that would be a waste.

I am on latest nVidia driver (337.88). I used to use Optimus before in i7-2630QM+GT550M and it works fine running in external CPU on same driver/madVR version.

[kopija]

I have just upgraded from 0.8.6.11 to the newest version and am getting GPU driver chrashes.
I use MadVR primarily because I can watch movies and fold at the same time, thanks to the FSE mode.
Even though F@H consumes 95-98% of my 7870 I could use Jinc3 AR AND SM on 0.8.6.11 while folding simultaneously.
But not so with the newest version: even lowly bicubic causes driver restarts. I do not use image doubling nor error diffusion.
Since F@H uses OpenCL, I suspect that it could be fighting with madVR for use of OpenCL resources somehow.

So, basically, my guestion is: for which madVR functions is OpenCL used? Apart from NNEDI, ofcourse.

Thanks for your answers.

[huhn]

@kopija:

NNEDI3,ERROR DIFFUSION and under general "use OpenCL to process DXVA NV12 surfaces"

the newer version got some tweaks for optimus system could be a problem with that.

but is works totally fine with out F@H (what ever that is), right?

else: http://bugs.madshi.net/my_view_page.php feel free to add a entry.
Madshi is currently working on other things. so it better to add it there to make sure he will look at it later on.


edit: @innocenat

please try a newer version of MadVR 82.10 is ancient and report back.

[generalmx]

First I'd like to thank madshi and the community for such an excellent product

I have a watercooled R9 290X that's pretty consistent with its clocks (no overclock yet, stable at 1000MHz) and even this beast of a card can't handle everything without the occasional frame drop.

Specs
Windows 8.1 (Update 1) 64-bit (Pro w/ WMC)
Haswell Xeon 3.5GHz (w/ HT) 16GB DDR3 RAM
AMD Radeon R9 290X 4GB GDDR5
AMD Driver version: 14.16 (no difference with 14.14)

madVR version: 0.87.10
Software Used: MPC-HC "Lite" (*), MPC-BE (*), LAV Filters 0.62.0, ReClock 1.8.8.4
* - All internal filters disabled.

madVR & ReClock Configuration

ReClock
- WASAPI Exclusive
- Assume source is 30 FPS or Refresh Rate / 2
- Pre-Buffer: 100ms
- Quality: Best Sinc Interpolation
- Added MPC-BE to ReClock's "load always" since it's not added by default.
(all other defaults)

madVR 0.87.10 Configuration
(If not mentioned, option is disabled.)

Deinterlacing: 
- Automatically activate deinterlacing when needed
-- if in doubt, deactive deinterlacing
- Only look at pixels in the frame center.

artifact removal:
- reduce banding artifacts
-- default debanding strength: low
-- strength during fade in/out: medium

Scaling Algorithms (All)
-- image downscaling: Catmull-Rom w/ Anti-Ringing Filter + Scale in Linear Light

Scaling Algorithms: <=360p
-- image upscaling: Jinc, 3 taps w/ Anti-Ringing Filter
-- chroma upscaling: NNEDI3, 256 neurons
-- image doubling: Always Double Luma, 64 neurons + Always Double Chroma, 16 neurons (*)

Scaling Algorithms: 360p<=480p
-- image upscaling: Jinc, 3 taps w/ Anti-Ringing Filter
-- chroma upscaling: NNEDI3, 128 neurons
-- image doubling: Always Double Luma, 32 neurons + Always Double Chroma, 16 neurons (*)

Scaling Algorithms: 480p<=720p
-- image upscaling: Jinc, 3 taps w/ Anti-Ringing Filter
-- chroma upscaling: NNEDI3, 32 neurons
-- image doubling: Always Double Luma, 16 neurons + Always Double Chroma, 16 neurons (*)

Scaling Algorithms: 720p<=1080p
-- image upscaling: DXVA2
-- chroma upscaling: NNEDI3, 16 neurons
-- image doubling: (None)

* Note: AMD interop hack doesn't seem to make a difference for my tests.

General Settings
- Delay playback start until render queue is full + delay playback start after seeking, too.
- Use OpenCL to process DXVA NV12 surfaces.
- Use separate device for DXVA processing.
- CPU/GPU queue size: 24

windowed mode settings:
- 16 frames in advance
- (rest are set to defaults)

trade quality for performance: ALL disabled

Smooth Motion
- Enable smooth motion frame rate conversion 
-- ...or if the display refresh rate is an exact multiple of the movie frame rate.

Dithering (< 720p): Ordered Dithering
Dithering (>= 720p): Error Diffusion #2

Monitor
HP LP2465 (1920x1200 S-PVA panel)
- Properties: PC Levels (0-255), 8-bit (or higher)
- Calibration: Disabled + Disable GPU gamma ramps.
- Display Modes: (None)
- Color & Gamma: 0/disabled

AMD Catalyst Configuration
- Enable AMD Video Quality features in selected video player applications: UNCHECKED (disabled)
- Enforce Smooth Video Playback: UNCHECKED (disabled)

720p Hi10P Average Stats:
- Rendering (madVR): 28ms
- Interop (madVR): 10ms
- Present (madVR): 0.10ms
- GPU Utilization (HWiNFO): 58% (*)
- D3D Usage (HWiNFO): 23% (*)
- Time Spent with very high (>90%) GPU Usage: 28% (*)
Note: No dropped frames over this report.

(*) I have a super-fancy spreadsheet I made to calculate all of this.

I have tried a large number of different settings from suggestions online and in this thread, and so far these have shown to be the best -- however there are plenty of different source material (I'm mostly testing on anime) that trips it up. Here's some especially weird stuff:

* My settings don't seem to like ReClock set to 24 FPS (for ~24 FPS source), causing more to significantly more dropped frames. I have two monitors connected in an "Extended" desktop: 24" 1200p S-PVA workstation monitor and a crappy 32" 1080p TN HDTV. Both can support 24Hz natively, especially the 1080p, though I must use CRU to add 24Hz for the 1200p, however, even the 1080p set to 24Hz causes significantly more dropped frames (same with 48Hz). Just to check if it was the case of using Windowed and two monitors running different resolutions, I set both monitors to 1080p@24 and the same problem occurred. But I'm guessing the reason it's totally unplayable if Monitor #2 (1080p, Secondary) is set to 1080p@24 and Monitor #1 (1200p, Focus) is still set to 1200@60 is how Windows handles refresh rate differences like that.

* Full-Screen Exclusive Mode gives more to significantly more dropped frames for me, and can introduce artifact errors. Again, note that I can't get EDID for Monitor #2 (1080p), and it's using some generic PnP driver, and Monitor #1 is a 1200p workstation monitor that doesn't support 24Hz (or 48Hz) without hackery.

Hence I've settled on ReClock with 30 FPS or Refresh Rate / 2, which requires Smooth Motion enabled or else I'll get significant judder on anime pan & scan.

Note on Pan & Scan in Anime: I've found certain sources -- say, HorribleSubs -- often have low bitrate sources that will have problems on pan&scan no matter what you do; only outright frame-doubling really helps here (SVP, CUVID, etc.).

On Windows Power Profile: I'd like to stress that you should be using "High Performance" if you're having any sort of trouble, NOT just changing settings under "Balanced". Process Lasso is an example of a program that will set the power profile for you based on what programs are running.

[Anime Viewer]

Originally Posted by generalmx

* My settings don't seem to like ReClock set to 24 FPS (for ~24 FPS source), causing more to significantly more dropped frames. I have two monitors connected in an "Extended" desktop: 24" 1200p S-PVA workstation monitor and a crappy 32" 1080p TN HDTV. Both can support 24Hz natively, especially the 1080p, though I must use CRU to add 24Hz for the 1200p, however, even the 1080p set to 24Hz causes significantly more dropped frames.

Hence I've settled on ReClock with 30 FPS or Refresh Rate / 2, which requires Smooth Motion enabled or else I'll get significant judder on anime pan & scan.

I'd noticed the same thing on my system when it would try to play 24fps content. At one time I thought it might be the encoding on the video, or possible variable frame rate in the 24fps videos I'd been watching, but since your noticing it too it could be ReClock related like you suspect.

My work around was to delete the 1080p24 and 1080p23 display modes from the list of supported display modes in my madVR settings. With it set as 1080p60, 1080p59, 1080p30, 1080p29 Reclock goes to the next closest thing (30hz). I proposed a change to reclock setting options based on another type of 24hz flawed playback experience (detailed at the linked page), but nothing ever became of it.
https://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?60908-Proposal-for-future-Reclock-setting%28s%29&

[generalmx]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

I'd noticed the same thing on my system when it would try to play 24fps content. At one time I thought it might be the encoding on the video, or possible variable frame rate in the 24fps videos I'd been watching, but since your noticing it too it could be ReClock related like you suspect.

My work around was to delete the 1080p24 and 1080p23 display modes from the list of supported display modes in my madVR settings. With it set as 1080p60, 1080p59, 1080p30, 1080p29 Reclock goes to the next closest thing (30hz). I proposed a change to reclock setting options based on another type of 24hz flawed playback experience (detailed at the linked page), but nothing ever became of it.
https://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?60908-Proposal-for-future-Reclock-setting%28s%29&

Hmm, interesting. But I do think I've found a significant source of dropped frames that I think is just related to madVR: blending of high contrast / overexposed and normal contrast scenes. With my settings, every now and then, there will be a big string of dropped frames from rapid transitions between the different contrast levels, which I'm guessing is a side-effect of manipulating luma and chroma. And while one could see this in live-action, you're most likely to see it in more light-hearted anime; where even your typical shounen/action anime uses more basic colouring and lighting.

Unfortunately I haven't yet found a combination of madVR settings that prevents dropped frames in this situation, though I know it's my madVR settings as using a different renderer (with or without ReClock) works fine...which is a shame, since it's these anime that looks absolutely brilliant with NNEDI3, so I've just been rewinding when it happens (it's not consistent either).

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by generalmx

Unfortunately I haven't yet found a combination of madVR settings that prevents dropped frames in this situation

If all combinations of scalers aren't changing anything, have a play with the buffer and flush settings (lowering and disabling accordingly) and see what happens.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by huhn

please try a newer version of MadVR 82.10 is ancient and report back.

He meant 0.87.10 there never was a 0.82.10. He's on the latest version.

[michkrol]

Originally Posted by generalmx

Hmm, interesting. But I do think I've found a significant source of dropped frames that I think is just related to madVR: blending of high contrast / overexposed and normal contrast scenes. With my settings, every now and then, there will be a big string of dropped frames from rapid transitions between the different contrast levels, which I'm guessing is a side-effect of manipulating luma and chroma.

Try those scenes with disabled debanding. Then try with both "strength" and "fade in/out" set to the same level.

With "don't rerender frames ..." trade quality for performance option disabled, when madvr detects a fade in/out it drops frames and rerenders them using other debanding setting. If this works as intended you don't even notice it, but if you have maxed out settings and one fade in/out after another in the video you rerender frames almost constantly with different settings. That's why some quality trade-offs are enabled by default

In you previous post you have mentioned judder with some sources, are you sure it's not in the source? If your encode or deinterlacing goes wrong you will get duplicate frames, which means judder during pan scenes. Easiest to check by frame-stepping through the panning scene.

[QBhd]

@ generalmx:

For ReClock settings, I have found that the best way to work with madVR is to have every single option un-checked on both the advanced settings and the audio settings. Also is there a reason you are using WASAPI? DirectSound is all you really need to use, unless there is a specific reason.

Have you tried using 13.12 AMD drivers? Any of the newer drivers cause performance drops with my 270x... maybe something you should look into as well

QB

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by generalmx

Hmm, interesting. But I do think I've found a significant source of dropped frames that I think is just related to madVR: blending of high contrast / overexposed and normal contrast scenes. With my settings, every now and then, there will be a big string of dropped frames from rapid transitions between the different contrast levels, which I'm guessing is a side-effect of manipulating luma and chroma. And while one could see this in live-action, you're most likely to see it in more light-hearted anime; where even your typical shounen/action anime uses more basic colouring and lighting.

Unfortunately I haven't yet found a combination of madVR settings that prevents dropped frames in this situation

Have you tried turning on the trade quality for performance option "don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected"? Your description sounds like it could trigger fade detection and needing to rerender several frames very often could account for your issue. This is also the only option that would depend of the content of the video, as far as I know (besides a minor effect when using 3DLUTs).

edit: missed michkrol's reply - yeah, what he said.