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Old 20th August 2011, 00:58   #1101  |  Link
RedDwarf1
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It's an interesting App but I doubt I will bother messing around using it because I don't think it's worth the effort. If I plug my power usage meter in then maybe I would change my mind. That uses 20 watts by itself so I don't keep it plugged in all the time.
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Old 20th August 2011, 01:50   #1102  |  Link
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It's an interesting App but I doubt I will bother messing around using it because I don't think it's worth the effort. If I plug my power usage meter in then maybe I would change my mind. That uses 20 watts by itself so I don't keep it plugged in all the time.
Understandable. While it's working great for me to lower my system's power consumption (18W compared to CPU decoding & 55W compared to CUVID with SD) it also makes it a nuisance for 3D gaming as you will have to add each title to the P0 list for full performance.

What I think this highlights though, is that you shouldn't just assume that GPU decoding automatically means lower power consumption. (the reason I started using CUVID to begin with)

Because CUVID kicks the GPU into its P0 state, it turned out that it was using almost 40W more than CPU decoding on my system. I'd be curious to see the results from low-power HTPC cards. In many systems, you might be better off using the CPU rather than GPU if you don't want to mess with this tool.
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Old 20th August 2011, 05:28   #1103  |  Link
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Understandable. While it's working great for me to lower my system's power consumption (18W compared to CPU decoding & 55W compared to CUVID with SD) it also makes it a nuisance for 3D gaming as you will have to add each title to the P0 list for full performance.

What I think this highlights though, is that you shouldn't just assume that GPU decoding automatically means lower power consumption. (the reason I started using CUVID to begin with)

Because CUVID kicks the GPU into its P0 state, it turned out that it was using almost 40W more than CPU decoding on my system. I'd be curious to see the results from low-power HTPC cards. In many systems, you might be better off using the CPU rather than GPU if you don't want to mess with this tool.
You make some very good points and well worth considering. My GT240 is a relatively low powered card, using about 8 watts while idling and around 75 max. I doubt my CPU, a core 2 quad, would be using that much power when decoding SD Mpeg2. Therefore, using LAV CUVID for the sake of using it is probably not a good idea. I will have to find my power usage meter and test it when I can find some time. If Gigabyte DES is anything to go by then around 8 to 14 watts for my CPU while decoding an Mpeg2 TV channel means it is probably best to use the CPU rather than GPU.
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Old 20th August 2011, 07:06   #1104  |  Link
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nevcairiel, thanks for 0.12, it fixed long channel switching in DVBViewer for me too.
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Old 20th August 2011, 09:33   #1105  |  Link
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nevcairiel, thanks for 0.12, it fixed long channel switching in DVBViewer for me too.
Glad it wasnt just me, then!
Now only pankov has to confirm as well.
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Old 20th August 2011, 10:39   #1106  |  Link
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It's not an ideal solution, but Nvidia Inspector's Multi Display Power Saver tool (right-click the "show overclocking" button to access it) allows you to force the GPU into the lower clocked P8 (Video) power state rather than going into the P0 (Full 3D) power state with CUVID.
Any reason for you to not create a specific profile for your video application? This way you can control all the clocks and do not affect the gaming.
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Old 20th August 2011, 17:32   #1107  |  Link
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Any reason for you to not create a specific profile for your video application? This way you can control all the clocks and do not affect the gaming.
Well, creating a video profile (P8) for MPC-HC means that the GPU is always running in the medium power consumption mode for video playback. (this is the same mode DXVA uses)

It uses significantly less power than P0, but with my card at least, the lowest-power 2D mode (P12) is fast enough to decode SD video and scale it using MadVR. (bicubic75 chroma, softcubic70 luma)

This drops power consumption with SD video to 92W from 103W, which is only 2W more than the system at idle and worth the extra effort to me.

Setting the VPU threshold to 35% seems to be the right number for my card. While most HD video was using 45%+ I did find a couple of titles that dropped to 40% when showing title cards/credits etc which caused the power state to change and video to stutter. 35% keeps SD video in the P12 state, and HD video in P8 with everything I have tested so far. Depending on your card/source material (my HD content is all Blu-ray discs) this may need to be set differently based on the demands put on your GPU.



There is a similar setting for GPU threshold rather than VPU, but I have that disabled. It seems to either go in P0 when unnecessary, or constantly switch states causing bad stuttering with games/video playback. For applications that require it, I will just add them to the list manually. Fortunately, you can right-click the list and choose from a list of programs currently making use of the GPU.

The upside to this is that I can force the card to stay in the medium power P8 state when running less demanding games, rather than having them run at full performance unnecessarily.


Using this tool does require a bit more effort (though it's really only a one-time thing) but that's why I have a PC in the first place.
If I wanted things to be simple I would just be using a stand-alone Blu-ray player for films and a console for games (or a PS3 for both) but I would rather spend a little bit more time & effort to get a much better experience. E.g. 50Hz DVDs played back at 24p, upscaled using MadVR. Games played in native 1080p at 60fps rather than the 720p30 consoles offer.

I suppose I'm also a bit more concerned about power consumption because using a PC for playback is so much more demanding than a stand-alone now. I don't know what the most efficient is currently, but Panasonic have a player that uses 11W for playback!

I still want the functionality that a high-end PC brings for gaming, video quality and getting work done, but if I can cut the power consumption as much as possible just through the use of software, I feel it's worth making the effort.

I will admit though that I do now wonder if I should have made a better effort to reduce power consumption by only putting one optical drive in the system, buying 3TB drives rather than multiple 1.5TB drives (best price/capacity at the time) and looking into low-power RAM rather than 1.5v gaming-grade stuff (turns out you're looking at less that a 5% difference in performance) choosing a lower wattage PSU (I actually think my old 350W would have been fine, this has never pulled over 200W in my testing) and possibly having gone with AMD for video. (though I'm still wary after having driver troubles in the past)
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Old 20th August 2011, 23:33   #1108  |  Link
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So how do you setup the VPU thresholds exactly?
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Old 21st August 2011, 01:30   #1109  |  Link
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So how do you setup the VPU thresholds exactly?
This is one of those things that's much harder to describe with text than it ought to be.

So there are three power states, P12, P8 and P0. Low power for 2D, medium power for video playback, and full power for 3D/games.
Normally DXVA puts the card into P8, and CUDA (which CUVID uses) seems to put the card into the full power P0 state regardless of how hard it's working.


The VPU threshold option sets the point at which the card will switch between P12/P8 depending on VPU load.

With VPU threshold set to 35%, if load goes above 35% the card will switch to P8 and if VPU load goes below 35% in P8, it switches back down to P12.

So if you set the threshold to 100% for example, it will stay in P12 until load gets to 100%. However, 100% load in P12 might only be 50% load in P8, so it will then switch back down, and up in a never-ending cycle. (ideally you would be able to set independent upper/lower thresholds)


With my card, what I have found is that decoding SD video never reaches 30% VPU load in P12, and decoding HD video always requires 40% or more in P8.

So with threshold set to 35%, the card stays in the very low power P12 state with SD video, and switches to the medium power P8 state with HD.

Without this tool, it would be stuck in the full power P0 state at all times, as CUVID makes use of CUDA.



There are two alternative options if this is sounding too complicated, or doesn't work well in your setup:
  1. Install this tool, add mpc-hc (or your player of choice) to the P8 application list, and it will stay in P8 rather than P0 with all video playback.

    On my system that means 103W usage regardless of whether video is HD/SD, rather than dropping to 92W with SD.

  2. Forget about GPU decoding and use LAV Video Decoder, letting your CPU handle things instead. This doesn't interfere with your GPU's power management at all (it should then stay in P8) but because the CPU is doing more work, it raises power consumption to 110W in my system, however this is still a big improvement compared to the 150W drawn when CUVID sets the card to P0.
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Old 21st August 2011, 03:36   #1110  |  Link
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Thanks - Where in the tool do you set the thresholds? - Eg, I've been looking for some setting like: "Set VPU Threasholds: <0% P12 <35% P8 <80% P0 <100%" but I must be blind as I can not see where this option is hidden!
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Old 21st August 2011, 03:44   #1111  |  Link
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Thanks - Where in the tool do you set the thresholds? - Eg, I've been looking for some setting like: "Set VPU Threasholds: <0% P12 <35% P8 <80% P0 <100%" but I must be blind as I can not see where this option is hidden!
Sorry, the application is not very intuitive. Right-click the "show overclocking" button:


Unfortunately there is only one VPU slider, two would be ideal.
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Old 21st August 2011, 06:23   #1112  |  Link
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Thanks - I never would have found it! Unfortunately, it looks like there is no combo that will work for me on a 550Ti (LAV CUVID and madVR) as:

Using VPU %'s:
- SD needs P8
- "Normal" HD OK on P8
- VC-1(i) HD borderline on P8
- 1920x1080 50p needs P0

Also for smooth HQ "TheaterView" in MC you need P8 (nil VPU use but GPU maxes out on P12)

So for me I'd need really need more control to set something like:
Activate by VPU %: 0% < P12 < 5% < P8 < 75% < P0 < 100%
Activate by GPU %: 0% < P12 < 35% < P8 < 75% < P0 < 100%

In other words on my 550Ti P12 is fine when doing nothing, P8 for most playback, but I need P0 for 1080/50 or 60p (and probably also 1080/50 or 60i) and even then the VPU is being hammered.
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Old 21st August 2011, 13:23   #1113  |  Link
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So there are three power states, P12, P8 and P0. Low power for 2D, medium power for video playback, and full power for 3D/games.
It seems you are using the auto power management feature.

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There are two alternative options if this is sounding too complicated, or doesn't work well in your setup:
How about a third option:
Disable the auto power management feature, and then install NVidia system tools and create your own custom profiles? This way you won't be stuck to P12, P8 and P0. Each person can create profiles specific to their card model.
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Old 21st August 2011, 15:40   #1114  |  Link
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It seems you are using the auto power management feature.
Using the VPU threshold setting is the only way I know of that will keep the card in P12 with SD video and P8 with HD video.

Using the GPU threshold setting is what caused me all kinds of trouble, with it always switching power states in the middle of watching a film or playing a game.

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How about a third option:
Disable the auto power management feature, and then install NVidia system tools and create your own custom profiles? This way you won't be stuck to P12, P8 and P0. Each person can create profiles specific to their card model.
I have installed these tools, but don't see anything to do with VPU usage monitoring, only GPU?
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Old 21st August 2011, 17:27   #1115  |  Link
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Using the VPU threshold setting is the only way I know of that will keep the card in P12 with SD video and P8 with HD video.
Now I'm getting it. You want to change the card's clocks according to the content you are watching (SD vs HD), so it makes sense to use this tool. Another option would be to use two mpc-hc installs and use one for HD and the other for SD, and apply different profiles to them, but that would be a nasty workaround.

Furthermore, since you can redefine the clocks of the three different states (P0, P8 and P12), it would be almost the same. The only disadvantage is that you are limited to three states, but that should be more than enough.

I will give this a try, because with this tool I can use even lower clocks for the standard 2D mode, and that would mean lower power consumption.

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Old 21st August 2011, 21:46   #1116  |  Link
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Glad it wasnt just me, then!
Now only pankov has to confirm as well.
I confirm

The change is quick and there is only one minor glitch - one frame from the previous channel shows up for a moment and the first frame of the new channel is shown. Can the reason for this be that I'm using Adaptive deinterlacing and "50p/60p (Video)" frame rate.
Does anybody else see this?

Nev,
will you satisfy my curiosity and tell us what was causing the delay?
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Old 21st August 2011, 22:06   #1117  |  Link
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Its just some internal technical things, DVB Viewer changed the channel without explicitly flushing the decoder, and therefor it caused the decoder to not properly discard frames from the old channel.

The issue with one frame showing is probably caused by the renderer, showing the last frame it knows until the decoder outputs a new one.
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Old 21st August 2011, 22:34   #1118  |  Link
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About the "one frame showing" issue - I'm not sure I explained it good enough so I'll try one more time:
when DVBViewer changes the channel it freezes the last frame of the old channel until the re-tuning is complete by the DVB card. After this it shows a frame (or a few - can't say for sure) from the new channel and then flashes quickly a frame from the old channel and then continues with the new channel.
Obviously it has a frame from the new channel so it's "last known frame" shouldn't be from the previous channel ... at least I think so.
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Old 22nd August 2011, 03:14   #1119  |  Link
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Now I'm getting it. You want to change the card's clocks according to the content you are watching (SD vs HD), so it makes sense to use this tool. Another option would be to use two mpc-hc installs and use one for HD and the other for SD, and apply different profiles to them, but that would be a nasty workaround.

Furthermore, since you can redefine the clocks of the three different states (P0, P8 and P12), it would be almost the same. The only disadvantage is that you are limited to three states, but that should be more than enough.

I will give this a try, because with this tool I can use even lower clocks for the standard 2D mode, and that would mean lower power consumption.
Clocks aren't the major Power Consumption factor Voltages are
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Old 22nd August 2011, 09:41   #1120  |  Link
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Yup, the trick is to lower clock speeds enough that you can lower the voltage, getting the most performance from your input voltage.

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