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Old 12th December 2008, 00:16   #1  |  Link
shon3i
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Ugly fades.

I never saw that ugly fades in x264. I use buld 1046 from MeGUI Auto Updater and these settings

Quote:
--pass 2 --bitrate 5381 --stats ".stats" --level 4 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ref 3 --mixed-refs --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-adapt 2 --weightb --direct auto --deblock -3:-3 --subme 9 --trellis 2 --psy-rd 1.0:1.0 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,i8x8 --8x8dct --vbv-bufsize 8000 --vbv-maxrate 15000 --me umh --merange 32 --threads 6 --thread-input --progress --no-dct-decimate --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "output" "input" --sar 1:1 --mvrange 511 --aud --nal-hrd
without turbo activated.

Source



x264



I aslo tryed to use zone at begining with quantizer @ 10 but not helped much

Source is Austin Powers 2 Blu-ray, target 1080p BD5

Last edited by shon3i; 12th December 2008 at 00:19.
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Old 12th December 2008, 00:22   #2  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
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Why do you use maxbitarte 15000? Level 4.0 allows 25000! What happens if you remove --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 ?
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Old 12th December 2008, 00:29   #3  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
Why do you use maxbitarte 15000? Level 4.0 allows 25000! What happens if you remove --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 ?
Quote:
Why do you use maxbitarte 15000? Level 4.0 allows 25000!
Because i follow BD (BD-5) standard and not H264 anyway there is no point for higher max bitrate or buffer.



Quote:
What happens if you remove --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1
I will test soon, thanks for suggestion.

btw i just finished encoding same scene with MC encoder, and no problems
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Old 12th December 2008, 01:01   #4  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Post an output stream.

Also, does the problem disappear if you don't use threads, or if you use this build?

Last edited by Dark Shikari; 12th December 2008 at 01:04.
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Old 12th December 2008, 03:22   #5  |  Link
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I only noticed artifacts like the one you mentioned, shon3i, when I used vbv on a source before. try without vbv.
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Old 12th December 2008, 11:19   #6  |  Link
Sagittaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
I never saw that ugly fades in x264. I use buld 1046 from MeGUI Auto Updater and these settings

without turbo activated.

Source



x264



I aslo tryed to use zone at begining with quantizer @ 10 but not helped much

Source is Austin Powers 2 Blu-ray, target 1080p BD5

Well fade is particular part for H264 ...

Try without --b-adapt 2 or --weightb. Fade is really particular problem for x264.
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Old 12th December 2008, 11:30   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
Well fade is particular part for H264 ...

Try without --b-adapt 2 or --weightb. Fade is really particular problem for x264.
B-adapt 2 and weightb improve fades, not make them worse.

The problem here has nothing to do with H.264 or x264 in general, or even fades in general, but rather just that the frame quantizer is being shot up to QP51 by something (probably VBV).
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Old 12th December 2008, 12:30   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
B-adapt 2 and weightb improve fades, not make them worse.
Well certainely bitrate efficiency but certainely not for the quality. All the other H264 encoder make history better job for fade (Ateme for exemple) with native WPred support for Pframe. For my BD encoding I must often use zone option for improve bitrate in fade part.
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Old 12th December 2008, 12:57   #9  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
Well certainely bitrate efficiency but certainely not for the quality.
Higher bitrate efficiency inherently means higher quality, if anything due to the fact that qcomp will lower quality more in the highest bitrate areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
All the other H264 encoder make history better job for fade (Ateme for exemple) with native WPred support for Pframe.
All other H.264 encoders? Not in my experience, remember, almost all H.264 encoders suck. Though certainly one would expect the ones that make proper use of weighted P-frame prediction to do better.
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For my BD encoding I must often use zone option for improve bitrate in fade part.
You could just set qcomp to 1.0 instead.
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Old 12th December 2008, 15:00   #10  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari
Post an output stream.
Here is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari
but rather just that the frame quantizer is being shot up to QP51 by something (probably VBV).
Yes it is VBV when is disabled fade is normal. What to do?? I mean i must use VBV, i aslo tryed to change to -vbv-buffersize 30000 -vbv-maxrate 33000 (by original Blu-Ray specs) to saw what should except from some normal values, and thig is same

Last edited by shon3i; 12th December 2008 at 15:06.
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Old 12th December 2008, 15:10   #11  |  Link
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I knew I was right.. and Sagittaire, blocking in fades really isn't a problem anymore, and if so, one could always opt to use a cqm, but you can see that I haven't even recommended that to him. The only time to use a cqm for fading, is if one chooses to use noob settings.
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Old 12th December 2008, 15:31   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
Here is

Yes it is VBV when is disabled fade is normal. What to do?? I mean i must use VBV, i aslo tryed to change to -vbv-buffersize 30000 -vbv-maxrate 33000 (by original Blu-Ray specs) to saw what should except from some normal values, and thig is same
Try with crf mode ...
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Old 12th December 2008, 16:19   #13  |  Link
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Wouldn't the Max bitrate for BD-5 be around 30000?

The max data transfer rate for DVD is about 11000. BD-5 has a spin speed of 3x's... so max would/should be about 33000.... account for audio.... about 30000
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:37   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
Yes it is VBV when is disabled fade is normal. What to do?? I mean i must use VBV, i aslo tryed to change to -vbv-buffersize 30000 -vbv-maxrate 33000 (by original Blu-Ray specs) to saw what should except from some normal values, and thig is same
Did you follow my instructions and try both without threads, and with threads+the build I posted for you?
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:39   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
Try with crf mode ...
Not helped only solution i found is to encode this first 300 frames with Mainconcept Encoder, and whole chapter now look good.

@Dark Shikari, can you do something about this? I remember when elecard encoder haved same issue in some of first versions of converter studio, and i reported it to Mutek, and they are soloved very quickly
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:41   #16  |  Link
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I smell something familiar here...
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:45   #17  |  Link
shon3i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Did you follow my instructions and try both without threads, and with threads+the build I posted for you?
I tryed without --threads 6 option and leave on default, but is same ugly fade. I didnt tryed with you build because don't contain hrd-nal patch
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:49   #18  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
I tryed without --threads 6 option and leave on default, but is same ugly fade. I didnt tryed with you build because don't contain hrd-nal patch
What does the NAL-HRD patch have to do with anything? It has nothing to do with the actual encoding process, and certainly nothing to do with VBV. Again, I told you to test that build: that means you should test it, not complain about why you can't when you obviously can.

Also, if it turns out that build doesn't fix the problem, I'm going to need from you the smallest possible source segment and associated x264 build and x264 settings that replicate the problem.
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:52   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
I can't do anything if you ignore every single post I make in this thread. I am less inclined to care about peoples' encoding problems if they refuse to read my posts when I'm trying to solve the problem.
I don't get it, it works with you build and --threads 6 , Sorry for ignoring you post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari
What does the NAL-HRD patch have to do with anything?
I need it for BD compatability. I know that nal-hrd don't have anything in encoding, but VBV without NAL is usless

Last edited by shon3i; 12th December 2008 at 20:55.
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Old 12th December 2008, 20:53   #20  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
I don't get it, it works with you build and --threads 6 , Sorry for ignoring you post
It works? As in, there is no VBV issue, and all problems are solved?
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