Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > Avisynth Usage

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st January 2003, 19:32   #1  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Which filters for a bad quality anime dvd?

Hi everybody,
this is my first message, so i hope i'm not making any mistake
I'm trying to encode an anime movie:
16/9 non anamorphic, heavy compression (3,9 gigabytes on HD, with 2 ac3 streams), interlaced video, strange compression artifacts due to unusual ghost effects.
Here u can see this "jpeg like ghost effect":
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/frame2tuo.jpg

I also have a problem on the edges of the images moving on the backgrounds in the final avi, whatever is the filter used.
These are two consecutive frames of the final avi:
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/Anoscal.jpg
http://uellaaa.tripod.com/Bconscal.jpg

I've tried many filters combinations; best results with this one:
# DEINTERLACING (1)
FieldDeinterlace(full=false,chroma=true,blend=false)
SmoothDeinterlace(lacethresh=24,edgethresh=10,staticthresh=25,staticavg=90,tff=true,blend=false,showlace=false)
#
# CROPPING
crop(13,89,697,402)
#
# RESIZING
Lanczos3Resize(640,352)
#
STMedianFilter(10,50,8,10,10,50)
WarpSharp(depth=98, blur=3, bump=98, cubic=-0.6)

But using this combination edges are flickering even more.
Can anyone help me?

Last edited by dodone; 21st January 2003 at 19:37.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 19:59   #2  |  Link
Guest
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 21,901
1. Your image links aren't working.

2. You shouldn't deinterlace twice.
Guest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 20:11   #3  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Thanks for answering
1 - I know links dont work correctly, u should copy and paste them.
2 - I know i shouldnt deinterlace twice but smoothdeinterlacer is the only filter which can get a rid of a good number of those artifacts and if i use only smooth it produces a lot of ghost effects even if i set blend=false; if i use it after a field deinterlace, it doesnt found nothing more to deinterlace than those strange artifacts i'm talking about.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 20:28   #4  |  Link
lark
Regular User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Yes and No
Posts: 411
that ghost might be hard, if it's already in the source, which seems to be quite often the case with bad anime. perhaps you could try ghostbuster.

if you mean by the background objects moving that the whole picture shifts to the right, at least i don't a filter that would deal with this, unless the pattern is constant (e.g. every other frame to the left and every other to the right or something like this), in which case you might try to decimate first the whole stuff into 2 or more parts (streams) and then crom them according the shift and later interleave the streams again and process the interleaved stuff, but i'm pretty sure this works only in theory.

regards
t
lark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 20:57   #5  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
I had tried with ghostbuster but it doesnt work with that kind of ghosth. The only usefull filter for that is smoothdeinterlacer, i guess because of its edgethresh parameter. Is it possible to set this filter in order to get deinterlacing without blending?
The other problem occurs when an entire frame moves vertically or an object (like the bandages of the linked jpg) with black outlines moves over the background. There is no constant pattern: if a frame is still and the following is exactly the same the problem doesn't exist.
I'm sorry for my poor english
also i'm a newbie in avisynth encoding.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 22:40   #6  |  Link
Dreassica
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 384
Is iot a PAL DVD, cuz then it might be the dreaded blended fields problem that pester these dvd's n anime. If thats so u wont be able to fix it. U will only be able to smooth the picture to reduce it as good as possible. Telecide(blend=false) is your best bet then too.
Dreassica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2003, 22:54   #7  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Yes, it's a PAL DVD and it's old (2000)
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 10:37   #8  |  Link
Wilbert
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 6,364
STMedianFilter contains a bug, it adds a purple hue to your clip. Try convolution3d instead.
Wilbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 11:45   #9  |  Link
Infophreak
Anime-otaku
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 59
Well, Castle of Cagliostro was created in 1979, and it hasn't been taken real good care off, so there are some serious issues with the video quality on that movie (at least that's the case with my R4 PAL DVD). Lots of dust on the print and the occasional "black hole" could make it a pain to encode I think.
__________________
We're all connected - Serial Experiments Lain
Infophreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 14:55   #10  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
@wilbert
i didnt noticed this purple hue, probably it occurs if parameters are setted to high. Stmediam seems to work better than 3dconvolution in my case.
@infophreak
i think the problem is not the age of the movie (or of the film) but the way they processed the japanese master and the compression they used; it's true that sometimes you can see black holes and the frames shake but i think the problem is this european pal dvd, infact i bought it for half of its price.

Anyway i cant understand why if i watch the dvd there isnt any aliased image, and in the avi black outlines are so irregular sometimes.

Last edited by dodone; 22nd January 2003 at 15:04.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 15:06   #11  |  Link
Wilbert
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 6,364
Well, I used the settings:
STMedianFilter(10, 50, 8, 10, 10, 50)

See http://www.geocities.com/wilbertdijkhof/ --> comparison pictures.
Wilbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 15:37   #12  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Yes, u're righ. Maybe i hadnt noticed it cause i'm encoding an anime
Thanks for your samples anyway, they are really usefull.
I will try 2dcleaner cause it seems to give good results on your pictures. 3dconv in my case it's useless, only if i set it to BQ it works but it causes a loss of colours and details and removes that kind of imperfections less than other tools.
May u give me some advices on how to use it in my case?
A script sample would be great
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd January 2003, 16:31   #13  |  Link
trbarry
Registered User
 
trbarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gainesville FL USA
Posts: 2,092
I hadn't even noticed the STMedianFilter change in hue until Wilbert pointed it out previously.

But I'm going to be making a YV12 version soon (maybe today) anyway and there are a couple obvious things I can try as I do that purple problem.

First, I think I should just leave the chroma alone, no filtering.

Second, IIRC STMedianFilter also does a small amount of averaging, not just clipping. This could cause rounding errors, so I'll get rid of that too.

Hopefully an update soon.

- Tom
trbarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2003, 10:15   #14  |  Link
Wilbert
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 6,364
Quote:
3dconv in my case it's useless, only if i set it to BQ it works but it causes a loss of colours and details and removes that kind of imperfections less than other tools. May u give me some advices on how to use it in my case?
Sorry can't help you with that. I've never done anime.
Wilbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2003, 15:12   #15  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Never mind.
I'm encoding with these settings:
# IVTC
Telecide(post=true, blend=false).Decimate(mode=1)
#
# DEINTERLACING
SmoothDeinterlace(lacethresh=20,edgethresh=15,staticthresh=15,staticavg=85,tff=true,blend=false,showlace=false)
#
# CROPPING
crop(13,89,697,402)
#
# SMOOTHING
_2DCleanYUY2(interlaced=1,thresholdY=4,radiusX=2,radiusY=3,dmode=3,thresholdU=128,thresholdV=128)
#
# RESIZE
Lanczos3Resize(640,352)
#
# SHARPENING
WarpSharp(depth=80, blur=2, bump=68, cubic=-0.6)

Probably not the best way, but the best i found. Thank u for your help.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2003, 15:21   #16  |  Link
dadawi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2
Why not have a look at msharpen or ashap, instead of Warpsharp..sometimes helps to achieve great quality.

By the way, try to put a sharpener BEFORE a smoother, you probably get rid of aliasing problem which may result of a sharpen.
dadawi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd January 2003, 15:58   #17  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
Thanks, i will try.
Anyway i cant understand why i should use a sharpening tool before a smoothing: i'm sharping to compensate the blur of a smoothing process.
Unfortunately the aliasing effect is not due to the sharpening process but i noticed that the cause is the same of the other problem:
ghost effect on outlines for little movements of them or the entire film.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2003, 06:14   #18  |  Link
sungey
another encoding dude..^^
 
sungey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 100
its good to apply sharpener before 2d cleaner so the video will be sharpened but not too sharp (rough) ... but for sharpener like Warpsharp .. i like to apply it after the spatial cleaner .
__________________
-- SunG --

" The more knowledge you give, the more knowledge you gain. Its different from wealth. "
sungey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th January 2003, 15:28   #19  |  Link
dodone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 22
I think there is no way to encode this movie in a decent way.
I have been trying greedy, and i found out that one of its parameter (verticalfilter) gets rid of some of aliasing effects, but not every ghost effect. Depending on the setting of the "topfirst" parameter, which decide how to combine the two field of each frame: i should encode with "topfirst on" half of the scenes, and with "topfirst off" the other half.
dodone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2003, 15:34   #20  |  Link
digitize
Registered User
 
digitize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 142
I think convolution3d will work better than 2d cleaner. 2d cleaner is just a spacial cleaner, and even though it has a higher spacial maxtrix than c3d (2d = 5x5, c3d = 3x3), c3d imo still gives better results.
digitize is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.