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Old 13th November 2013, 06:53   #21  |  Link
nevcairiel
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If you copy the stream 1:1, then yes, it can do that. LAV Splitter lets you select the full stream or only the forced frames.
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Old 13th November 2013, 11:59   #22  |  Link
Frankenscript
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
that is a little known feature of lav splitter, you can tell it to display certain subs based on the audio language. set subtitle selection mode to advanced and enter eng:eng|f;eng:off;*:eng in the subtitles box. this enables only forced subs when english audio is detected and enables english subs when foreign audio is detected.
Hi Mindbomb,

I made it back home and configured in the advanced mode you described. I'm still getting all subs (complete English text) on a lot of English language content. For example, I ripped Pacific Rim (Bluray) with MakeMKV using all default settings. It got one subtitle track in the output. I'm not sure if it contains any forced frames I would want or not, but it definitely does contain the full English text, because they show by default unless I turn them off.

This is how I'm set up:


Do I have any wrong settings, or are there other places I should configure MPC-HC, so that I don't by default get lots of extra subs? It seems I've got something set too permissively, and I need to lock something down.

Thanks!

Marc
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Old 13th November 2013, 12:23   #23  |  Link
Frankenscript
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Oh... while I'm at it... what software tools do people use to see what's in the subtitle streams, as in telling if they really contain forced or not? I use MediaInfoGUI which tells me whether or not there is a text stream. MKVToolnix MKVMerge can tell me if default / forced flags are set. IS there any tool that tells the size / how many subtitles are actually in the stream?

Thanks
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Old 14th November 2013, 01:43   #24  |  Link
mindbomb
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i think i actually gave you bad advice.
It's better that you leave lav splitter at it's defaults, and use mkvmerge to make subs you need be default.

mediainfo can tell you whether it is default/forced as well.
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Old 14th November 2013, 02:29   #25  |  Link
Frankenscript
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Hi mindbomb,

I disagree that you gave bad advice.

While remuxing titles with just the tested correct forced sub tracks (or, a sub track with appropriately flagged forced frames, or whatever) is the BEST solution, it's not practical for me.

While I don't keep stuff around on my server for long, I nonetheless have about 15 movies waiting for viewing, and something like 50 episodes of various TV series. All ripped using MakeMKV with default settings. I delete stuff from the server when I'm done with it for the moment. (no interest in hosting a server farm).

So, recognizing there's no perfect solution for working with existing content, and given the boundary condition that I'm far too lazy to do a wholesale review and remux-as-needed of my existing content, I'm looking for the "80% solution" in that mostly subs work as intended, and once in a while I'll have to turn on subs manually, and once in a while I'll have to turn off subs manually.

I think this is by and large what you gave me.

What I need to do at this point is look at some representative content with appropriate tools, learn which things use which types of track flags, and how these interact with for example MPC-HC (or, more generally, LAV splitter and video) as my primary player. This would help me anticipate when I would need to turn on / off subs manually, and would also help me do a more accurate job of ripping things without extraneous sub tracks. I've got maybe 75% of the information I need already, I just need to fill in some gaps in a practical sense.

Is there a good utility that displays the size of a sub track? It would be pretty easy to tell forced (only) tracks from full text tracks on this basis. Tracks that are full with forced frames would be a challenge but I think they are relatively rare. (correct me if I'm wrong).

I found where in MediaInfoGui I can see default/forced, but pretty much everything I have tested shows "no" for those. Other than a Kill Bill one where I manually remixed it supposedly with yes/yes though MediaInfo only shows yes for forced.

Anyway, I always appreciate your input. I'm focused mostly on "no mux, no fuss" solutions, and configuring the advanced rules is probably the best way to get me to as close to perfection as I'm likely to see.

Marc

PS: is there a "flag editor" that would let me make quick edits to forced/default flags, without the need to remux the whole thing?

Last edited by Frankenscript; 14th November 2013 at 02:37.
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Old 14th November 2013, 06:57   #26  |  Link
mindbomb
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yea, i think you can use mkvmerge's header editor to change subs to default:yes or default:no.
don't mess with forced, just use the default field.

That with lav splitter's default mode is probably the best solution.
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Old 14th November 2013, 07:06   #27  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If you copy the stream 1:1, then yes, it can do that. LAV Splitter lets you select the full stream or only the forced frames.
IMO it's in violation of the specs then cause the container flags should superseed the stream's flag. Gonna check it when I'm getting back my Avatar BD.

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Oh... while I'm at it... what software tools do people use to see what's in the subtitle streams, as in telling if they really contain forced or not?
BSUP2SUB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
yea, i think you can use mkvmerge's header editor to change subs to default:yes or default:no.
don't mess with forced, just use the default field.
If it's forced, why not use the proper flag? VLC finally acknowledges it even without the default flag being set and who knows what other non-LAV players will be used eventually?
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Old 14th November 2013, 07:51   #28  |  Link
nevcairiel
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IMO it's in violation of the specs then cause the container flags should superseed the stream's flag. Gonna check it when I'm getting back my Avatar BD.
As if there are specs
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Old 14th November 2013, 11:50   #29  |  Link
Frankenscript
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This weekend I'll get some test samples together and see if I can stitch together a better understanding of how the MPC-HC controls and the LAV Splitter options work together. The odd thing is sometimes when in MPC-HC I select an option (turning on or off "enable" for subtitles) sometimes it seems to stick to the next file, and sometimes it doesn't seem to stick. I'm sure it's a user-ignorance thing, but I haven't got it dialed in quite right in my brain.
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