Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10th October 2018, 20:24   #53101  |  Link
nussman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post
Please open a grayscale and switch between Normal and Low. The darker one is 0-255.
Using RGB it is easy to double the effect (not recommended) - set GPU to RGB "full" and TV to "HDMI Black Level - Low" resulting in "blacker then black" and "whiter than white".
The darker one should be 16-235 ...
nussman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 20:41   #53102  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I'm guessing you have the UB820 set to YCbCr Auto, yes? That COULD be part of the difference. Maybe.
Under HDMI settings menu :
- 4K(50p/60p) 4:4:4
- Colour Mode : YcbCR (Automatic)
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 20:42   #53103  |  Link
blaubart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Because a dedicated player uses YCbCr and a PC uses RGB. YCbCr does not use 0-255. It uses 16-235. This is why smart displays have an 'auto' setting. To detect the input and adjust the output. This 'auto' adjustment defaults to 16-235 on my panel. I think panels are programmed around dedicated players. So are 'devices'. This introduces the havoc we PC users face.
Obviously my 'device' does not have this feature which would be the solution. At the moment no money here to buy an other. Hoping for madshi to realize the "16-235 only playing HDR" Button or so..
blaubart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 20:45   #53104  |  Link
Betroz
Is this for real?
 
Betroz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norway
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
To deal with that issue on your PC, you could set madvr to 16-235 (limited), the GPU to RGB FULL, and the TV to auto. It SHOULD show correctly in that configuration.
I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto. But in PC mode, I can't enable TruMotion at all, and I need that. So I have to have "HDMI 1" set for that port - and then the Black Level option is only Low or High...

Edit : typos and stuff
__________________
My HTPC : i9 10900K | nVidia RTX 4070 Super | TV : Samsung 75Q9FN QLED

Last edited by Betroz; 10th October 2018 at 20:48.
Betroz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 20:51   #53105  |  Link
zapatista
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 21
HI Madshi,

i just replaced my old ati 5770 with a gtx 1060 (3gb) , but i have major dropped frames in madvr when playing video since i installed this card (about 10/sec). this is even with default madvr settings, and using mpc-hc (64 bit).
pc = i7-4770k cpu, 32 gb ram, ssd 500 gb, and new 1060 3gb gfx card on a win7 64 bit system

other video players work fine, eg cyberlink powerdvd, vlc, mplayer without madvr is also ok, etc
i have tried several gfx drivers (latest whql, version on the install dvd, best recommended by other users for similar video card etc..), all no solution. also checked for mb driver & bios updates etc (all are up to date). gfx card has no alternative bios release to try.
i did search for other users w madvr reporting similar problems but the main suggestions (from yourself earlier in this thread for ex) was to turn flux off and not use gpu-z, didnt seem to help in my case


https://ibb.co/eQ0VZU

when i first installed the new 1060 gfx card i thought it was working correctly, even was able to play some 4k HEVC files smoothly(downscaled to my 1080 tv over hdmi) and was really impressed with the quality of the video image (as i was expecting from madvr from my old ati card use in previous yrs), but then further testing with 1080p and 720p files (mp4 and HEVC) over the following days all started to have similar severe dropped frames (tried lots of settings in madvr options, but now even default settings with all enhancements off now cause dropped frames 10/sec approx)

i have reset madvr to defaults, uninstalled and reinstalled mpc-ht etc, sadly no solution found so far. cpu usage stays low @ 30% approx, and gpu load is also low @ approx 30% with only 900 mb of the 3 gb vram used (as reported by gpu-z)

any idea what i should look at ?

Last edited by zapatista; 10th October 2018 at 21:05. Reason: jpeg upload
zapatista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 21:25   #53106  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
your presentation times are terrible try windows 7 overlay.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 22:12   #53107  |  Link
blaubart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto.
Here renaming HDMI 1 to "PC" results in completely different (2 instead of 4) Picture modes, Black Level is grayed out and set to Auto. But unfortunately madVR playing HDR still black-ish.
blaubart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 22:15   #53108  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
a profile should be able to fix this for you.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 22:27   #53109  |  Link
famasfilms
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 29
Has something changed recently with Windows 10 updates/New nvidia drivers?

None of my HDR movies triggering "HDR on" with my LG OLED
famasfilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 22:36   #53110  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,351
Yes, either roll back to 399 or use FSE with HDR content.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 22:38   #53111  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
Under HDMI settings menu :
- 4K(50p/60p) 4:4:4
- Colour Mode : YcbCR (Automatic)
Yes, and that's the difference between your PC and the UB820.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
I have to rename HDMI 1 to "PC" in my TV port settings, then Black Level can be set to Auto. But in PC mode, I can't enable TruMotion at all, and I need that. So I have to have "HDMI 1" set for that port - and then the Black Level option is only Low or High...

Edit : typos and stuff
I use PC mode on my C8 for all my devices. I don't want all that processing enabled. I can understand wanting/needing it so in that case you will have to configure it for the device you're using. Lots of fun!
__________________
HTPC: Windows 11, AMD 5900X, RTX 3080, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG G2 77" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 23:11   #53112  |  Link
blaubart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
a profile should be able to fix this for you.
Thank you I will do one day, my concern was to report, HDR is only tested here from time to time so no doomsday at all.

madVR no more able to switch HDR since W10 1809, madVR switching HDR off mostly results in a bit crashed Desktop, panned, resized windows, also reported here some times... I'm quite sure this all will be history soon? Hopefully madshi got finally his sponsored OLED panel he was expecting in Aug.2016..?

Last edited by blaubart; 10th October 2018 at 23:21.
blaubart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2018, 23:34   #53113  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
1809 is pulled is well known to be broken and has yet another WDDM version so expect a lot of driver problems.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 03:24   #53114  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post
Unfortunately TV manufacturers give their HDMI levels randomly changing phantasy names. The one that sounds somehow lower, weaker is mostly 0-255.
On most TVs I've seen, the setting's results are consistent with its name and values, the 'issue' is that some TVs call the setting "range" in which case the bigger sounding one is 0-255, when other TVs call the setting "black level" in which case 0-255 is the lower sounding one. You just have to RTFM really.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 07:58   #53115  |  Link
blaubart
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 42
Googl for rtfm, ok reading the f.. manual - nothing concrete. Reading a Prad technican who said it is not as easy as switching 0-255 / 16-235 but the TV is "trying" to higher-lower some curves in that direction with changing success. Which does not mean that some levels/colors are completely "terminated" its more like smooth waves.. I think thats the reason why TV manuals never tell us hard numbers but somewhat deeeeper, wiiiider In the end it lies in the eye of the each person.

Thinking about the "black-ish" HDR thing I remembered that madshi told me once (Aug.2016 in an other language) he would not recommend YCbCr but at this time he had no UHD panel. But to have a chance for 10-Bit video you need YCbCr422 at 10 or 12 bpc (bit per channel). As I could read the "RGB hardliners" hate that, running in squares through the room tearing their hair out, trying 444 10-bit through HDMI2 whatever..

So maybe madshi just did not test much in YCbCr (hoping he finally got some HDR TV). Win10 set to HDR with GPU output "RGB full" shows here pale greenish colors on the desktop (video ok) but as I mentioned above setting TV's HDMI black level to Normal - madVR playing HDR at 0-255 now dark scenes ok. YCbCr422 12 bpc - HDR desktop has much better colors but madVR's black clipping comes too early 2-10% is black -16% nearly black.

Last edited by blaubart; 11th October 2018 at 08:02.
blaubart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 10:57   #53116  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
1809 is pulled is well known to be broken and has yet another WDDM version so expect a lot of driver problems.
https://youtu.be/uOxmONFwsG4?t=72



(sorry, had to...)
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 11:36   #53117  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by blaubart View Post
Googl for rtfm, ok reading the f.. manual - nothing concrete. Reading a Prad technican who said it is not as easy as switching 0-255 / 16-235 but the TV is "trying" to higher-lower some curves in that direction with changing success. Which does not mean that some levels/colors are completely "terminated" its more like smooth waves.. I think thats the reason why TV manuals never tell us hard numbers but somewhat deeeeper, wiiiider In the end it lies in the eye of the each person.
you didn't read every Manuel that is there.
my TV has full normal and auto and all 3d do exactly what you would understand under these names and there is no wave what ever going on this is a very simple thing for a Tv and a well understood topic.
Quote:
Thinking about the "black-ish" HDR thing I remembered that madshi told me once (Aug.2016 in an other language) he would not recommend YCbCr but at this time he had no UHD panel. But to have a chance for 10-Bit video you need YCbCr422 at 10 or 12 bpc (bit per channel). As I could read the "RGB hardliners" hate that, running in squares through the room tearing their hair out, trying 444 10-bit through HDMI2 whatever..
but HDMI 2.0 can send 12 bit RGB@UHD.
can you please stop making stuff up?
Quote:
So maybe madshi just did not test much in YCbCr (hoping he finally got some HDR TV). Win10 set to HDR with GPU output "RGB full" shows here pale greenish colors on the desktop (video ok) but as I mentioned above setting TV's HDMI black level to Normal - madVR playing HDR at 0-255 now dark scenes ok. YCbCr422 12 bpc - HDR desktop has much better colors but madVR's black clipping comes too early 2-10% is black -16% nearly black.
if your don't send RGB from the GPU you are at the mercy of the GPU driver. and again it is a very easy topic. you throw full range RGb at the GPU driver and it will amke limited range YCbCr out of it. nothing new.
and because you have troubles with this topic don't assume other HDR TVs and other use have the same problems.
and YCbCr a thing with 1080p TVs and what do you evne test it is not in his hands what the GPU driver does.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 12:05   #53118  |  Link
vanden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post


any ideas why the picture changes to black and white for me as soon as I set "highlight recovery strength" to anything else than 'none'?
Exactly same problem here !

MPC-HC 1.7.13 (x86&x64)
MADVR 0.92.17
Geforce 650Ti
DL580G5 (4xXeonX7460)
Win10 1803

it worked fine before (DirectCompute ?)
And it possible to be able to choose the old algo ?

Last edited by vanden; 11th October 2018 at 12:07.
vanden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 12:30   #53119  |  Link
mytbyte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 212
why don't you upgrade to MPC-HC 1.8.3, that fixed some things for me (not related to MadVR, however)...
mytbyte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2018, 13:04   #53120  |  Link
vanden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytbyte View Post
why don't you upgrade to MPC-HC 1.8.3, that fixed some things for me (not related to MadVR, however)...
Because it does not change anything ! :


vanden is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.