madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

are you running some image enhancements.
upscaling chroma and HDR->SDR is not the type of a killer.

and check your GPU power settings.

[Warner306]

This link is also helpful in showing the damage done by lowering the chroma to 4:2:2 before reconstructing it: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...15#post1614315.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by theDongerr

Toggling the option you mentioned does not affect my render time. I am noticing dropped frames though, which seems odd if I'm not doing any scaling.

I agree with Warner306, 15.5ms is too slow for a 16.68ms frame time. Try to get your rendering times below ~14ms.

Exactly how much extra time you need seems to be somewhat system dependent. I have been fine with 1ms extra or needed 5ms extra with different configurations.

Have you tried DX9? Always try every mode available.
I have had DX9 Overlay help with using every last bit of GPU power in the past, it uses a fast low level hardware "present".

Edit: Do not pay too much attention to the exact rendering times reported by madVR. They are estimates and different options may allow higher or lower reported average rendering times without dropped frames. I would never expect the D3D11 present frame every v-sync option to change the reported rendering time but it can change the number of presentation glitches or dropped frames.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by theDongerr

Also, the highest setting I could make work in chroma upscaling is "Sharp NGU Low".

NGU is quite demanding for chroma for UHD to HD and based on the minimal differences I saw with chroma in this situation I personally have this set to JINC with no AR on my 1060. Give it a shot.

[theDongerr]

Originally Posted by Warner306

The movie frame rate is 60 fps. That is a very difficult video to render quickly. That's why your stats are suffering.

Almost all UHD movies (not demos) are 24 fps, so you should be able to crank up your settings considerably with real program material until rendering times are 35-37ms, not 16ms.

I want to convert any 24 fps material to 60 fps and utilize smooth motion. I really enjoy this presentation when scaling 1080p24 -> 2160p60 + Smooth motion. My display doesn't handle native 24fps very well in my opinion. MadVR fixes that for me without any SOE effect.

Originally Posted by huhn

are you running some image enhancements.
upscaling chroma and HDR->SDR is not the type of a killer.

and check your GPU power settings.

I am not running any other image enhancements. All 'trade quality for performance' is unchecked as well except for 'dont render fade in/out'

Do I check GPU power settings in the BIOS? Is there a number I should looking/aiming for?

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I agree with Warner306, 15.5ms is too slow for a 16.68ms frame time. Try to get your rendering times below ~14ms.

Have you tried DX9? Always try every mode available.
I have had DX9 Overlay help with using every last bit of GPU power in the past, it uses a fast low level hardware "present".

To try DX9 do I just uncheck the 'use Direct3D 11 for presentation' ? I am going to spend some time toggling these options in the morning.

Originally Posted by ryrynz

NGU is quite demanding for chroma for UHD to SD and based on the minimal differencesi saw with chroma in this situation I personally have this set to JINC with no AR on my 1060. Give it a shot.

Worth a shot!! Thanks!!

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by theDongerr

To try DX9 do I just uncheck the 'use Direct3D 11 for presentation' ? I am going to spend some time toggling these options in the morning.

Yes, DX9 is the non-D3D11 default. Overlay is the one that is the most different but definitely play with them.

[zaemon]

Does anyone have any trick for the « GPU driver rejected this mode for no reason »? I can use custom modes with UHD resolution but not with 4K resolution. Every custom mode in 4K is rejected. And I really want to keep using 4K resolution as I have a native 4K projector (very useful with 2:35 sources with auto black bar cropping).

Without custom mode in 4K, I have 1 frame repeat every 4 minutes and I really see the difference (compared to UHD custom mode: 1 frame repeat every 1-2h).

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by zaemon

Does anyone have any trick for the « GPU driver rejected this mode for no reason »? I can use custom modes with UHD resolution but not with 4K resolution. Every custom mode in 4K is rejected. And I really want to keep using 4K resolution as I have a native 4K projector (very useful with 2:35 sources with auto black bar cropping).

Without custom mode in 4K, I have 1 frame repeat every 4 minutes and I really see the difference (compared to UHD custom mode: 1 frame repeat every 1-2h).

The only solution I found to this problem was a clean install of the drivers. Be warned that this might not fix anything, but it is likely all you can do if the optimizations have been calculated correctly. Perhaps, start over and play the video a little longer to make sure the optimizations were calculated correctly? Also, avoid the "reset GPU" feature. If you did this, then definitely reinstall the drivers. That was part of my problem.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by theDongerr

I want to convert any 24 fps material to 60 fps and utilize smooth motion. I really enjoy this presentation when scaling 1080p24 -> 2160p60 + Smooth motion. My display doesn't handle native 24fps very well in my opinion. MadVR fixes that for me without any SOE effect.

There is a difference between the frame rate of the video and the refresh rate of the display. madVR does not convert a 24 fps source to 60 fps; it feeds it to the display with 3/2 pulldown, so it is still rendering a 24 fps image.

The 60 fps video is native 60 fps. That is your problem. A new frame is drawn every 16.68ms, so your render times have to be very fast. If you took a native 24 fps source (like most real UHD material), a new frame is drawn every 41.71ms, so your total render times could be as high as 35-37ms, which is much higher than 16.68ms. This gives you more headroom for more demanding settings.

If you are using Error Diffusion dithering with 4K content, switch to Ordered. This can eat up a lot of performance for little gain; especially, if you are outputting at 10-bits from madVR.

[asagala]

My madVR setup runs perfectly. NGU Sharp,etc... thanks to many of you on this forum.

However, I do have a question concerning refresh rate switching. Should I have both 2160p59 and 2160p60 configured in madVR or only one of the two? I currently have both and it seems that its always 2160p59 that is being used.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by asagala

My madVR setup runs perfectly. NGU Sharp,etc... thanks to many of you on this forum.

However, I do have a question concerning refresh rate switching. Should I have both 2160p59 and 2160p60 configured in madVR or only one of the two? I currently have both and it seems that its always 2160p59 that is being used.

30 fps content is possible, but you are unlikely to encounter it. Might as well leave it there just in case. There is no harm. Just like 24 fps content is possible when most is 23.976 fps.

[e-t172]

PSA: 120 Hz FreeSync TVs are coming. Presumably madshi might be interested in this information when it comes to prioritizing madVR features. Historically, things like very high refresh rates (e.g. for BFI) and variable sync support were put in the backburner mostly because they were irrelevant to home cinema setups (and also because the APIs are not designed for the video use case, but maybe that can be worked around).

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by e-t172

PSA: 120 Hz FreeSync TVs are coming. Presumably madshi might be interested in this information when it comes to prioritizing madVR features. Historically, things like very high refresh rates (e.g. for BFI) and variable sync support were put in the backburner mostly because they were irrelevant to home cinema setups (and also because the APIs are not designed for the video use case, but maybe that can be worked around).

Seems like a bad deal to use 1080p on 4K TV to use that feature for video playback (not to mention that the resistance to implementing support for GSYNC/FreeSync was not only the limitation of this to gaming monitors, but also technical challenges, since video rendering is quite a bit different to game rendering)

[e-t172]

I agree, though it's not exactly clear from that news post what the 1080p restriction is about. Maybe it only applies to 120 Hz, not to FreeSync.

[mrmojo666]

Originally Posted by mclingo

think i'm getting somewhere with this, I just installed a really ancient AMD driver and it fixed it (16.8.1 however before you all tell me its a driver issue, I installed my current driver again and it was still fixed on 18.2.2 which was previously broken, so its driver related but that isnt the full story, could be a driver version had broken something in my setup which the older driver fixed. Colours are now totally fine with calibration off IN MADVR, still dont understand why EVR renderer was outputting correct colours and MADVR not though.

there is a caveat to this though, I tried this driver before and it didnt fix it, however I was using an RX550 then, ive recently upgraded to a an RX460 which is an older generation but faster card.

Hi, my fault, i didn't remember that issue appears only when i play <=24 fps with output 10bit, so it is still happening when i wrote that is not happing I tested with tv progrm that is 50i (so output is 10bit).....
i can say that is happening with dx11 + FSE 10bit.

what I miss if i use windows instead of FSE. what have more FSE from windowed ?

If i want to try to get back to 16.8.1, i need to clean in some way or i can just uninstall 18.3.4, install 16.81 then upgrade to 18.3.4 ?

THank you

[mclingo]

where its always best to use DDU cleaner when installing drivers for problems I didnt on this occasion. I had already jumped from 18.3.4 to 18.2.2 so I jumped to 16.8.1 where it was fixed and then back to 18.2.2 and it remained fixed. What I should do really is jump back to 18.3.4 but 18.3xxx drivers cause my PC to randomly hang, oddly mainly when I'm connecting to it via RDP and not actually using the GFX card, I think its crashing when it goes into lower power mode.

my system is now back to being stable again with 18.2.2, no crashes, no HDMI loss on stop, D3D all working, HDR working. i've moved back to using MPC and KODI DS refesh rate changing, MADVR refresh rate changing still causes HDMI loss for me on 3D movie stop but its been written off as a driver issue which I guess it could be.

[Manni]

Quick update on nVidia drivers status:

Tested with 1080ti and CP set to 4K23 RGB 4:4:4 12bits full, display is a JVC RS500 set to HDMI Standard (levels limited), so MadVR’s levels normally set to limited (16-235). I’m using D3D11 copyback as I need the auto aspect ratio / zoom (disabled in native/auto). Of course YMMV. Full config described in sig.

- All drivers work in 3D here but batch files are needed to set 3D mode before playback. This can be done with the command file using profiles. Otherwise registry changes do not stick. I need FSE to get 3D to work, I know others don’t but I have no idea why. Sadly I get a frame drop every 3mn or so in 3D, so far from ideal.
- Last driver fully working here for both SDR and HDR is 385.28. I thought there was a bug in Atmos with this driver (SBs sent to SRs) but it looks like it was an OS issue, I couldn’t reproduce it with Win 10 pro X64 build 1709. So as far as I can see it’s the last fully working driver.
- All drivers post 385.28 prevent from selecting 12bits when a custom mode is selected. If selecting 12bits from a standard mode, the bit depth option is greyed out when a custom mode is selected but the correct bit depth is applied (12bits up to 30p, 8bits above). This is done automatically, and it sticks here. So a very minor issue once you know the workaround. I use a MadVR custom mode that gives more than one hour between each drop in 4K23. I upscale everything to 4K (except 3D) so 1080p not tested (others have issues with 1080p apparently).
- All drivers from 390.65 are breaking compatibility with Asio4all and most Asio drivers. Solution is to use FlexAsio.
- 390.65 has a levels issue. Despite the fact that the GPU is set to full and my display is set to limited, I have to set MadVr to full (0-255) to get the correct levels. No idea why. Using MadLevelstweak.exe makes no difference. There doesn’t seem to be a downside, although having MadVR set to 0-255 when the display expects limited levels is clearly incorrect (in theory). But that’s the only way to get the correct levels with 390.65.
- All 391.xx drivers have borked levels, at least here with my display. I urge you to check your levels both in SDR and HDR if you’re using any of these. Changing MadVR’s levels to 0-255 or 16-235 makes no difference. Using MadLevelsTweaker.exe doesn’t help. The levels are borked, I couldn’t find to get them right without raising the black levels in HDR, even when setting the display in enhanced mode.
- All drivers from 385.28 (I didn’t try earlier) have minor banding in HDR passthrough mode with 10bits in windowed mode. This minor banding goes away using pixel shader or FSE. The banding seems less pronounced when using 0-255 in MadVR. So if using passthrough in 10bits mode, it’s recommended to set it to 8bits in MadVR. This adds a minor amount of noise, but it’s less visible than the banding.

So if you’re a gamer and need a fairly recent driver, 390.65 is the least compromised recent driver.

If you’re not a gamer or want Asio4all, then 385.28 is the last fully working option.

Of course, this is here, in my setup, as described. This might not be true for others, whether the setup is the same or not, but I thought posting this might be helpful.

Not related to nVidia drivers, but as a new build is about to be released with improved HDR to SDR conversion, there seems to be a bug in pixel shader when BT2390 is selected along with xysubfilter subtitles in MPC-BE. The brightness level switches if “calculate average nits” is selected. Disabling “calculate average nits”, selecting the internal sub renderer in MPC-BE, or selecting HDR passthrough or an Arve curve instead of BT2390 resolves the issue. Madshi wasn’t able to reproduce, so if anyone experiences this bug with the upcoming MadVR release please let us know. A good test for this is the very beginning of The Revenant. The brightness shifts when the first subtitle appears during the opening pan shot.

[oldpainlesskodi]

@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K

[Manni]

Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi

@Manni - I feel your pain...been there!

Have you tried 382.53? With this driver you can select 12 or 8 bit in custom modes. Also, the levels are correct, Atmos works as it should as does HDR switching.

I went one step further and completely disabled the stupid sRGB.icc profile from my device and disabled WindowsColorSystem permanently from starting via Task Scheduler - on my set up, the difference is night and day.

K

Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Originally Posted by Manni

Thanks but there is no pain. I only thought I'd share my findings in case it helps others.

385.28 work just as well as 382.53 here, so I don't see any reason to go back further.

Me too, but ok.