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Old 5th April 2018, 16:56   #27221  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by astraub View Post
This is also what I am confused about. Could it be that whatever tool is being used to calculate the differences for the second stream is having a setup/parameter problem? Or is there a reason, why exactly this process generates that much block artifacts? Could this be a rounding/mathematical issue?

Questions .... ;-)
Are you using the version of FRIM that comes with BD-RB? If I remember correctly, there was a version (actually the Intel Library DLL, not FRIM itself) a while back that had the issue of artifacts in one of the two stereo frames. I think I even got it myself and corrected it by updating the DLL. It's been a long time, though.
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Old 5th April 2018, 17:11   #27222  |  Link
astraub
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I was using exactly the versions which are linked on the first post of this thread. I also tried really hard to follow all instructions given, like setting the video decoders and Audio pass through. I hope the versions linked are all on static webpages?

Is there a way to get a list of all the versions used?
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Old 5th April 2018, 17:59   #27223  |  Link
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Originally Posted by astraub View Post
Is there a way to get a list of all the versions used?
BD-RB Help menu: Inspect (Show settings).

How does your dependent stream (right eye) look like: Just poor quality or really garbled crap (wild blocks, far from the original picture)?
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Old 5th April 2018, 22:19   #27224  |  Link
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So the 15GB are not enough for both transport streams?
Why throttle the output? The BD25 has space, so use it.
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Old 6th April 2018, 02:32   #27225  |  Link
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@Sharc the dependent stream looks really pretty bad - big random block artifacts - very disturbing. Sometimes a few clean frames, than random garbage in an otherwise nice frame again. This is the reason, why I still believe that something more basic than just encoder quality is going wrong.

Currently I am trying the highest (very slow) setting. If this does not help, I will try increasing the target size to 25GBytes.

----

@Mr.Video I keep all my 3D Movies (around 35) on my NAS (I would not even think of handling all my BluRays on disks ... around 1200!). I estimated that I could save around one TB of storage space by storing only the main movies in a more compressed format. As my NAS is slowly running out of space, this would be a big relief and can save me for quite some time from having to buy a second one ...

Last edited by astraub; 6th April 2018 at 02:37.
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Old 6th April 2018, 03:54   #27226  |  Link
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I keep all my 3D Movies (around 35) on my NAS (I would not even think of handling all my BluRays on disks ... around 1200!). I estimated that I could save around one TB of storage space by storing only the main movies in a more compressed format. As my NAS is slowly running out of space, this would be a big relief and can save me for quite some time from having to buy a second one ...
Ah, OK.
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Old 6th April 2018, 07:08   #27227  |  Link
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So - here the results of my testing:

I generated two ISOs

1) using a target size of 15GB and the highest (very slow) setting and
2) using the BD25 / automatic setting.

Both ISOs play with the same kind of problem reported before. The left eye stream is completely fine, the dependent stream / right eye stream shows severe block artifacts. After these tests I am now sure, that this has nothing to do with the amount of compression, but some other factor in the processing chain.

Just to double check here the config list of the BD25/automatic quality run:

[Options]
VERSION=0.50.0.24
ENCODER=0
MODE=3
ENCODE_QUALITY=0
ONEPASS_ENCODING=2
AUTO_QUALITY=1
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=deu;eng;
SUBS_TO_KEEP=deu;
SD_CONVERT=0
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
IGNORE_3D=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=0
AC3_REENCODE=0
AC3_640=1
AC3_192=0
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=0
AUDIO_DRC=0
DECODER=0
AVCHD=1
REMOVE_WORKFILES=1
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=0
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
OUTPUT_SBS=0
OUTPUT_3D_ISO=1
NEROAAC=0
SUPTITLE=0
PGSTOSRT=0
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=0
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=1
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=25000
TARGET_SIZE=23500
PRIORITY_CLASS=1
[Paths]
SOURCE_PATH= ......\DESPICABLE_ME_3D\
WORKING_PATH= ......\SCHREIBTISCH\

and the system check results:

Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.50.25
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 330,19GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.6.0.6, Ok
- LAVFILTERS: Ok
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[04.06.18] Systems Settings Check complete

The only thing suspicious I could find are the two slightly different BD Rebuilder versions reported in both cases. Now only a real expert can help, I guess ....
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Old 6th April 2018, 07:35   #27228  |  Link
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How do you watch the "right eye only" view? Is there a setting with your player for this, or do you try to play the corresponding file?
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Old 6th April 2018, 07:44   #27229  |  Link
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It's been a while, but I recall having problems with decoding 3D on the software players, where the problem/artifacts did not occur on a standalone.
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Old 6th April 2018, 08:15   #27230  |  Link
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@sharc I use the Dune HD 4k Solo player. This detects the 3D media by itself and so does my projector. With the original ISOs this never caused any kind of issues. All movies played perfectly fine including menus and all.

I can simply use my 3D glasses and switch between the two single channel views - or just close my left eye in 3D view ;-). I can also try to use the "Bino" SW-Player - which should enable me to show both views separately on the Mac and actually attach a picture of the issues seen. Would that help?

Before I forget: are here other people using 3D capable media players like the Zappiti or alike? What are your experiences?

Last edited by astraub; 6th April 2018 at 08:37.
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Old 6th April 2018, 08:42   #27231  |  Link
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You could encode SBS using x264 as the encoder. It would eliminate the FRIM encoder in the process. If the right eye (you can watch the SBS format on your PC, SBS) is still garbled it would point to the FRIM decoder (or library) being the source of the problem, (or the source itself but you said that the source plays fine).

EDIT:
SW player: I am using Stereoscopic Player (mainly for testing on PC)
HW player: 3D SAMSUNG standalone + 3D SAMSUNG TV
On my NAS I usually store 3D in compressed SBS format, CRF 20 giving file sizes in the range of 5 to 10 GB, for streaming to the TV.

Last edited by Sharc; 6th April 2018 at 09:06.
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Old 6th April 2018, 09:31   #27232  |  Link
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Well, I tried SBS and TOB, but I don't like the quality degradation because of the halved resolution - especially for a projector. For a TV that may be acceptable though.

As the FRIM de-/encoder is currently the only tool available to recode MVC streams .... I guess, I will stop my testing here, except if someone of the people really knowing what FRIM does and how eventually a parameter may fix this, can help out.
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Old 6th April 2018, 09:46   #27233  |  Link
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Well, when you really want to reduce the file size for your NAS you will quickly come to the crossover where Half-SBS using x264 looks better than full-size MVC using the Intel (FRIM) encoder, especially for action scenes. My experience only, but to each his own, of course, as "quality" is subjective.

Last edited by Sharc; 6th April 2018 at 09:51.
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Old 6th April 2018, 12:34   #27234  |  Link
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Maybe you are right. So far I only tried using DVDFAB ro create SBS versions (though with a high quality setting). Maybe I will try with BD Rebuilder and x.264 ... I hope I will find all the buttons to select - or do I have to manually set something in the .INI file?

PS: I just remembered that with DVDFAB I was using HEVC (H.265) encoding for SBS 3D. I guess that cannot be beaten by using H.264 .... so, never mind ;-)

Last edited by astraub; 6th April 2018 at 14:22.
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Old 6th April 2018, 14:40   #27235  |  Link
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Try going to this link and downloading the latest version of FRIM (v1.27). BD-RB uses v1.25. You could replace the versions in the BD-RB tools folder and see what happens. Don't forget to replace the DLL as well. Take caution, though, and save the ones you are replacing. I haven't tested v1.27 and don't even know if it works with BD-RB.
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Old 6th April 2018, 17:54   #27236  |  Link
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1.27 seems to work on my end give, though I still haven't been able to enable quick sync HW.

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Old 6th April 2018, 20:15   #27237  |  Link
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1.27 seems to work on my end
I don't think you are supposed to use it there...

Of course, what you do in private is your business...
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Old 6th April 2018, 21:17   #27238  |  Link
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@jdobbs Yes, the new version also worked fine for me in BD Rebuilder. Unfortunately the end result is the same as with the older one ....
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Old 7th April 2018, 00:03   #27239  |  Link
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Originally Posted by omegaman7 View Post
It's been a while, but I recall having problems with decoding 3D on the software players, where the problem/artifacts did not occur on a standalone.
I concur,
All of my 3D rebuilds have issues while playing on PowerDVD, but work flawlessly when burnt and played on the standalone

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Old 12th April 2018, 17:47   #27240  |  Link
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Hey JD, it's been a while! I'm curious as I wanted to try with some UHD ISOs if I can use the current BD-RB to test just the removal extras, previews, etc without any remuxing and see if it can rebuild, preserving the menus and see which releases I can get down to BD50 leaving the content untouched as much as possible... idea would be to avoid any issues with re-encoding/remuxing.

If you think the current version is ready for that kind of testing, I'm up for doing a bunch of this work to test it out.
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