Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28th August 2014, 23:35   #27161  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivan View Post
What OSD (Ctrl+J) says about deinterlacing?
I did reset all the settings and now its working again. Maybe after some years and a view updates that was needed.

But there is another thing i wonder.
I have one file that is progressive but madVR says and handles it as interlaced.
I thought only interlaced files can be treated wrong?
So how to handle that? Turning of automatic interlacing in madVR and set a flac in every interlaced movie file name?
But what happens then to discs?

The other file that is funny is interlaced and madVR sees it as that, but MediaInfo says it is progressive.
Does that mean that no software can tell you for sure what it is?
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th August 2014, 23:36   #27162  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eino View Post
What sort of GPU do I need for smooth motion?

I have an Intel Core i7-3770 in my HTPC, but no dedicated graphics card (just the Intel HD4000 on chip graphics). If I enable "don't use linear light for smooth motion frame blending" the video becomes very choppy during pans.

I want to get a fanless GPU to boost the performance, but the fastest passively cooled GPU seems to be the GeForce GT 730. Would that be fast enough to enable the above setting with high bit rate Hi10P 1080p content?

If not, would a GTX 750 do? I've seen articles about a fanless Zotac GeForce GTX 750 Zone Edition, but it's not currently available anywhere. One German retailer seems to say the end of August.

I'd be grateful for any advice on what I should get.
madVR only cares about FPS and how much it has to scale. the rest doesn't matter.

the HD 4000 can do smooth motion without a problem just check the rendertimes and make sure you use smooth motion with the highest possible refresh rate.

there are a lot of "powerful" passive cooled GPUs

these need a case fan:
r9 270 (I got one of these)
gtx 750 ti
gtx 750

these may work without a case fan:
r7 250
r7 240
gt 640

everything below this is normally slow for it's money but should work totally fine with basic scaling and SM.

the gtx 750 ti and 750 are all easily available in germany but you need an active case cooler to be save. the 3770 can be cooled passive I did this my self a year ago.

http://geizhals.at/de/palit-geforce-...-a1140063.html

http://geizhals.at/de/palit-geforce-...-a1145866.html

if you really need infos about hardware think about a new thread.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th August 2014, 23:40   #27163  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
I did reset all the settings and now its working again. Maybe after some years and a view updates that was needed.

But there is another thing i wonder.
I have one file that is progressive but madVR says and handles it as interlaced.
I thought only interlaced files can be treated wrong?
So how to handle that? Turning of automatic interlacing in madVR and set a flac in every interlaced movie file name?
But what happens then to discs?

The other file that is funny is interlaced and madVR sees it as that, but MediaInfo says it is progressive.
Does that mean that no software can tell you for sure what it is?
do you have a ~30 sec sample? sounds very very strange

the decoder is giving this information to madVR. just make sure your deinterlacing settings are "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing"
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 00:28   #27164  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
do you have a ~30 sec sample? sounds very very strange
I made a test. If i change aggressive to auto in LAV then the video is handled progressive by madVR.
I uploaded it:
http://skulltronics.de/uploads/DivX5...Madagascar.avi

Nowhere i can find an answer what the right setting in LAV is in combination with madVR.
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 00:54   #27165  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
I made a test. If i change aggressive to auto in LAV then the video is handled progressive by madVR.
I uploaded it:
http://skulltronics.de/uploads/DivX5...Madagascar.avi

Nowhere i can find an answer what the right setting in LAV is in combination with madVR.
just leave it at auto. in nearly all cases the default setting of lavfilter are right.

the most changed setting that make sense to change is the choice of a hardware decoder or no hardware decoder.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 01:53   #27166  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,643
What aggressive deinterlacing does is:
If any frame is flagged as interlaced, then assume that the rest of the video that follows is also interlaced (even if flagged as progressive).
This option is mainly intended for dealing with incorrectly flagged streams. Better leave if at Auto like huhn said.

Those two videos of yours might have some frames that were flagged as interlaced. That could explain the behavior.

MediaInfo only analyzes a small part of the video, so it can't be accurate on mixed content.
__________________
MPC-HC 2.1.7.2
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 03:33   #27167  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the most changed setting that make sense to change is the choice of a hardware decoder or no hardware decoder.
Hm, i thought its all about using the GPU for decoding. Cause they are optimized for all kind of codecs.
But well, maybe with todays CPUs that can handle Hi10p or 4K-h264...
I never locked at it this way - then madVR can use more from the GPU?
Last time i locked at this stuff CPUs did not have the power to decode VC1, H.264, 1080pMPEG...

But now this: If i set LAV to auto then another file shows the saw tooth edges (deinterlacing not working).
But madVR says "deinterlacing on (says upstream)"

Last edited by MrGlasspoole; 29th August 2014 at 03:58.
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 04:46   #27168  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
Hm, i thought its all about using the GPU for decoding. Cause they are optimized for all kind of codecs.
But well, maybe with todays CPUs that can handle Hi10p or 4K-h264...
I never locked at it this way - then madVR can use more from the GPU?
Last time i locked at this stuff CPUs did not have the power to decode VC1, H.264, 1080pMPEG...
you are misinformed.
no hardware decoder can decode 10 bit no amd GPU can do UHD. UHD is disabled by default in lavfilter.
GPU can do only very little codecs and even if they can do them they only up to a level like h264 4.1 for AMD.

Quote:
But now this: If i set LAV to auto then another file shows the saw tooth edges (deinterlacing not working).
But madVR says "deinterlacing on (says upstream)"
this means madVR is using deinterlacing have you disabled it in the gpu driver?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 06:14   #27169  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
you are misinformed.
no hardware decoder can decode 10 bit no amd GPU can do UHD.
I know that UHD and Hi10p is software decoded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
this means madVR is using deinterlacing have you disabled it in the gpu driver?
This is a interlaced file, so if madVR uses deinterlacing then this is how it should be?
GPU driver? You mean Catalyst Control Center? Yes, i tried it with enabled and disabled.

Another thing:
The workload on CPU/GPU is linked to the total pixels of a video - right?
2048×1152 = 2.359.296px
1792×1344 = 2.408.448px
Different width and high but almost the same amount of pixels.
So the workload is the same?

If thats the case it would be easier to make a script based on resolution if it would
be possible to do math in the script.
Something like:
Code:
if (srcWidth * srcHeight > 2000000px) "FHD"
Or if there would be "srcPix".

The problem is that there are resolutions that are for example below "1920 width" but have a
higher height. If i have for example a 3D 1920p movie, then the height is 2160...
Also looking for >=1280 and >=720 does not really work cause if the movie is not 16:9 then the height is less.
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 07:07   #27170  |  Link
GCRaistlin
Registered User
 
GCRaistlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
in nearly all cases the default setting of lavfilter are right.
Including "RGB Output levels" setting which default value is "PC (0-255)"?
__________________
Windows 8.1 x64

Magically yours
Raistlin
GCRaistlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 07:29   #27171  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
I know that UHD and Hi10p is software decoded.
This is a interlaced file, so if madVR uses deinterlacing then this is how it should be?
GPU driver? You mean Catalyst Control Center? Yes, i tried it with enabled and disabled.
can you try the same file with EVR and check if you still see wave interlacing? if yes think about a bug report.


Quote:
Another thing:
The workload on CPU/GPU is linked to the total pixels of a video - right?
2048×1152 = 2.359.296px
1792×1344 = 2.408.448px
Different width and high but almost the same amount of pixels.
So the workload is the same?

If thats the case it would be easier to make a script based on resolution if it would
be possible to do math in the script.
Something like:
Code:
if (srcWidth * srcHeight > 2000000px) "FHD"
Or if there would be "srcPix".

The problem is that there are resolutions that are for example below "1920 width" but have a
higher height. If i have for example a 3D 1920p movie, then the height is 2160...
Also looking for >=1280 and >=720 does not really work cause if the movie is not 16:9 then the height is less.
for decoding it's the ~kbit even this is simply not 100 % true.

for gpu. a 720p video need a lot more processing on a 1080p screen than a 1080p file on the same screen. it depends on how much scaling is needed and the frame rate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
Including "RGB Output levels" setting which default value is "PC (0-255)"?
useless for madVR. madVR can read all colorspaces lavfilter can output so this not used.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 16:05   #27172  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
can you try the same file with EVR and check if you still see wave interlacing? if yes think about a bug report.
Ok, the file i was talking about last works with "LAV aggressive" in EVR and madVR. With "auto" i have saw tooth in both renderers even
if madVR says "interlacing on".
But if i use aggressive then my other progressive file is recognized as interlaced by madVR.
And then there is one file that works in EVR with aggressive and auto but not in madVR.
So where is the bug - LAV, madVR or is it me?
Behaviour:
Quote:
Anixe-HD[1080i] EVRCP+LAV agressive = OK
Anixe-HD[1080i] madVR+LAV agressive = OK
Anixe-HD[1080i] EVRCP+LAV auto = saw toth
Anixe-HD[1080i] madVR+LAV auto = saw toth (madVR says interlacing on)

Koreans[1080i] EVRCP+LAV agressive = OK
Koreans[1080i] madVR+LAV agressive = saw toth (madVR says interlacing on)
Koreans[1080i] EVRCP+LAV auto = OK
Koreans[1080i] madVR+LAV auto = saw toth (madVR says interlacing on)

Madagascar[720p] madVR+LAV agressive = madVR says interlacing on
Madagascar[720p] madVR+LAV auto = madVR says interlacing off
And the files:
http://skulltronics.de/uploads/Anixe-HD[1080i].ts
http://skulltronics.de/uploads/Koreans[1080i].tp
http://skulltronics.de/uploads/Madagascar[720p].avi

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
for gpu. a 720p video need a lot more processing on a 1080p screen than a 1080p
Sure, thats the reason for profiles cause you can run different settings on different resolutions and FPS.
So the question is how to make the script intelligent enough to differentiate SD, HD, FHD...
Thats the last thing i came up with:
Code:
if (srcWidth < 1280) and (deintFps <= 30) "SD 24fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1919)) and (deintFps <= 30) "HD 24fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1919)) and ((deintFps >= 31) and (deintFps <= 60)) "HD 60fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 1920) and (srcWidth <= 2559)) and (deintFps <= 30) "FHD 24fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 1920) and (srcWidth <= 2559)) and ((deintFps >= 31) and (deintFps <= 60)) "FHD 60fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 1920) and (srcWidth <= 2559)) and (deintFps >= 61) "FHD 120fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 2560) and (srcWidth <= 3839)) and (deintFps <= 30) "QHD 24fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 2560) and (srcWidth <= 3839)) and ((deintFps >= 31) and (deintFps <= 60)) "QHD 60fps"
else if ((srcWidth >= 2560) and (srcWidth <= 3839)) and (deintFps >= 61) "FHD 120fps"
else if (srcWidth >= 3840) and (deintFps <= 30) "UHD 24fps"
else if (srcWidth >= 3840) and ((deintFps >= 31) and (deintFps <= 60)) "UHD 60fps"
else if (srcWidth >= 3840) and (deintFps >= 61) "UHD 120fps"
But that doesn't take into count for example 3D which is double the resolution (ex. 1920x2160).
I was looking on doing it with scrHeight rules. But there are so many variables...
And sure, it is questionable if it is needed to differentiate on all that - but hey, if it can be done and who does use
madVR if he not wants perfection
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 17:30   #27173  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
And then there is one file that works in EVR with aggressive and auto but not in madVR.
So where is the bug - LAV, madVR or is it me?
Your files are broken.
If a file needs even aggressive to deinterlace properly, then it is already broken. Any properly encoded file should deinterlace perfectly in Auto mode.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 18:19   #27174  |  Link
michkrol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
Sure, thats the reason for profiles cause you can run different settings on different resolutions and FPS.
So the question is how to make the script intelligent enough to differentiate SD, HD, FHD...
(cut)
I was looking on doing it with scrHeight rules. But there are so many variables...
And sure, it is questionable if it is needed to differentiate on all that - but hey, if it can be done and who does use
madVR if he not wants perfection
Do you really need all the combinations?
I mean, you use profiles since you want to max out your GPU and image quality, but a lot of the low res combinations will have the same "maximum quality" settings and the high res combinations will have the same "maximum performance" settings with only a few different profiles between them, so it seems pointless to list all possibilities.

Creating profile groups is also something to think over and set different rules for different settings. Chroma upscaling for example IMHO isn't that performance-heavy and I have it set based on resolution only - soft chroma upscaling (to hide artifacts) on SD and sharp chroma on HD and it works, unless you add highly compressed sources, like YouTube into the mix, but then filename/ext rules might come in handy.
My rules are really minimalistic, to give an example with debanding:
Code:
if (srcWidth>1920) or (srcHeight>1080) "deband off"
elsif (fileName="*YouTube*") or (srcHeight<600) "deband high"
else "deband low"
And I'm set for debanding. It's off for 4K (low performace with my GPU), high for SD and YouTube (poor source quality) and low for everything else.

As you can see I don't have >= and <= in one rule to make them less complicated and it works the same if the rules are in correct order. I also like to have the profiles named like the settings and not source quality/parameters, so a completely different approach to yours.

So what I recommend is to create 2/3 (or more?) sets of profiles for different settings with the setting on/off or at low/med/high respectively and check the performance with the clips you have at hand - you can always add more rules, but why bother to later realize half of your rules point to exactly the same settings? That's how I've gone about it and I'm quite happy with the results. It did take me a while until I've finally set them and at some point I got so creative that I needed comments to mark what is what
michkrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 19:08   #27175  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Your files are broken.
If a file needs even aggressive to deinterlace properly, then it is already broken. Any properly encoded file should deinterlace perfectly in Auto mode.
But what about the "Koreans" video that works with EVR but not madVR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
a lot of the low res combinations will have the same "maximum quality" settings and the high res combinations will have the same "maximum performance" settings with only a few different profiles between them, so it seems pointless to list all possibilities.
Sure, but there is not much i added. I did 120fps and QHD to play around. But there is definitive a difference between HD < 30fps and HD > 60fps.
I can do "Chroma up Jinc 3 (AR)" below 30fps but only "Lanczos 3 (AR)" above 30fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
Creating profile groups is also something to think over and set different rules for different settings.
What do you mean? Isn't that not what we already talk about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
filename/ext rules might come in handy. My rules are really minimalistic, to give an example with debanding
I'm not a big fan of renaming my files.
First you need to go through 100th of movies on your server.
Second i like clean names "Jaws (1975).mkv" and not "Jaws (1975)[some][else].mkv"
Third it does not work with iso's and disc's.

Debanding is the cue. Is it normal that with low the rendering time is higher then with high.
I also thought i use high only on SD and it takes more resources on FHD stuff.
But if i set debanding to high on movies (no matter if SD, HD, FHD) i always have less rending time.

And another question. I see people using Catmull-Rom+AR+LL most of the time for downscaling.
Why not Bicubic 60+AR? Sharper, less aliasing, same ringing...

I also think that SoftCubic 50/60+AR works better for SD (especially my old cartoon DVDs).
But most of the time in tutorials its all about Jinc.

Sorry for maybe stupid questions that are maybe already answered somewhere.
But this thread is so long and often i don't find an answer.
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 20:16   #27176  |  Link
Novalis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 23
No video after installng madvr

Hi,

I have installed latest mpc x86 and madvr. Everything seems all right, all filters run. But if i play movie only sound plays, no video.
I have a win7 x64 with internal nvidia gpu and Pci Nvidia GT 610. is that a problem? Can't deactivate the internal gpu, allthough I dont use it. Windows wont start up properly.

Thx,
Novalis
Novalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 21:15   #27177  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,903
@MrGlasspoole

they all work totally fine. in video mode not film mode.
looks like you force film mode on interlaced content. film mode is for telecine content.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 21:17   #27178  |  Link
michkrol
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
What do you mean? Isn't that not what we already talk about?
What I wanted to say is create separate set of rules for chroma upscaling, separate set of rules for image upscaling, etc. to reduce complexity, since you probably only need like 2 rules for chroma, but much more for image upscaling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
Debanding is the cue. Is it normal that with low the rendering time is higher then with high.
I also thought i use high only on SD and it takes more resources on FHD stuff.
But if i set debanding to high on movies (no matter if SD, HD, FHD) i always have less rending time.
Low setting should affect the image only slightly to avoid detail loss. To achieve it more checks are performed (computed), hence you get higher render times.
Or your GPU might be entering power-saving mode, reducing clock speeds, hence increasing render times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGlasspoole View Post
I also think that SoftCubic 50/60+AR works better for SD (especially my old cartoon DVDs).
But most of the time in tutorials its all about Jinc.
The tutorials aren't always (any) good. Jinc is the algorithm of choice if you don't use profiles.
SoftCubic is nice for "old" sources, but be sure to check out the image doubling (NNEDI3) which is pure magic for low resolution sources, especially cartoons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novalis View Post
Hi,

I have installed latest mpc x86 and madvr. Everything seems all right, all filters run. But if i play movie only sound plays, no video.
I have a win7 x64 with internal nvidia gpu and Pci Nvidia GT 610. is that a problem? Can't deactivate the internal gpu, allthough I dont use it. Windows wont start up properly.

Thx,
Novalis
Do you have all the DirectX updates installed?
Get DirectX End-User Runtime Web Installer from Microsoft here.

By no video do you mean black window or only a small seekbar, like you get when playing an audio file? Is madVR in the filters list in View->Filters menu?
Can you see madVR's OSD (press CTRL+J to show/hide)?
If yes, OSD's screenshot will help.

Does it work with EVR or any other video renderer?
If not, please move to correct/create new thread.
michkrol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 21:50   #27179  |  Link
Novalis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
Do you have all the DirectX updates installed?
Get DirectX End-User Runtime Web Installer from Microsoft here.

By no video do you mean black window or only a small seekbar, like you get when playing an audio file? Is madVR in the filters list in View->Filters menu?
Can you see madVR's OSD (press CTRL+J to show/hide)?
If yes, OSD's screenshot will help.

Does it work with EVR or any other video renderer?
If not, please move to correct/create new thread.
It had something to do with xysubfilter. After uninstalling them i got my video.
But now it's even worse. it runs a couple of seconds and then the complete system crashes an reboots. audio sounds ugly, choppy, thats all I can register before crash. That whole thing seems pretty unstable to me. Never had such a bad experience with other filters/decoders.
Novalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2014, 21:57   #27180  |  Link
MrGlasspoole
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
they all work totally fine. in video mode not film mode.
looks like you force film mode on interlaced content. film mode is for telecine content.
Ok, this drives me crazy.
I did set [deint=video] on the "Koreans" and it worked. Then i removed/disabled video mode and now it still works
But the beach babes don't work - they only workout :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
What I wanted to say is create separate set of rules for chroma upscaling, separate set of rules for image upscaling, etc. to reduce complexity, since you probably only need like 2 rules for chroma, but much more for image upscaling.
Ok, now i know what you mean.
Would be nice if things like artifact removal and dithering where in one place with luma/chroma.
The way it is now you need to make extra profiles in the categories where they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
Low setting should affect the image only slightly to avoid detail loss. To achieve it more checks are performed (computed), hence you get higher render times.
Ah ok. Makes sense.

What about that Catmull-Rom+AR+LL vs Bicubic 60+AR? Why is Catmull preferred?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Novalis View Post
Never had such a bad experience with other filters/decoders.
Did you had codec packs on your system, did you experiment allot with other filters/codecs before on that system.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by MrGlasspoole; 29th August 2014 at 22:02.
MrGlasspoole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.