Playing Blu-ray on Windows XP...

003 · 5th March 2009, 05:54

Wow finally I can post, that 5 day thing was annoying

I'm obviously new here and I am looking for some help.

Let me relay my relevant system information:

OS----------Windows XP x64 SP2
Video card---GTX280 (using DVI-D)
Sound card--Auzentech X-fi Forte (using stereo analog out)
Monitor------NEC LCD2490WUXi (using DVI-D)
Bluray drive--Pioneer BDR-S03J

I own a lifetime license for AnyDVD HD.

Now to get to the point of my thread. I want to be able to play Bluray movies on my PC in full quality, with no downsampling of the audio or video at all.

Normally, Bluray DRM will downsample the audio and video on a system that lacks HDMI connections on the sound card and video card. However, since I own AnyDVD HD, the DRM is automatically stripped from the Bluray disc when it is put in the PC, and you have access to the full quality audio and video.

Unfortunately, things aren't that easy. To my knowledge, all software capable of playing Bluray discs will still downsample the audio and video automatically, even if it technically has access to the full resolution content thanks to AnyDVD HD.

My question is, are there any software players that will be able to play the Bluray moves in full quality and resolution under the outlined circumstances?

I really need to figure out how to make this work, please someone help me. And if this has been covered a lot before, I'm sorry. I used search and didn't find anything relevant.

ranpha · 5th March 2009, 07:12

Play off the disc? No.

You have to rip the Blu-ray disc if you want to get untouched audio and videos. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822 for more info.

003 · 5th March 2009, 07:25

That is so lame

Is there any software being developed that will be able to just play off the disc? I mean, it seems to me that it would be rather simple to do, with AnyDVD stripping the DRM and all

Thanks for the guide though. Wow it is so long. And blu-ray movies are sure to take up a huge amount of space and take a long time to rip and encode

Why hasn't some open source player been able to achieve this by now?

ranpha · 5th March 2009, 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003

That is so lame

Is there any software being developed that will be able to just play off the disc? I mean, it seems to me that it would be rather simple to do, with AnyDVD stripping the DRM and all

Thanks for the guide though. Wow it is so long. And blu-ray movies are sure to take up a huge amount of space and take a long time to rip and encode

Why hasn't some open source player been able to achieve this by now?

Ripping the disc should not take too much time, because there are no video reencoding. Only audio will be reencoded to FLAC, and that doesn't take too much time.

Then you can use the open-source MPC-HC or even WMP to play the rip.

003 · 5th March 2009, 08:08

Ok, well I guess thats the best solution so far.. but man it does suck you can't just play the disc. I mean, what the heck is the reasoning behind that? Obviously it doesn't protect the content in any way, seeing how easily it can be ripped...

Should I use the Beliyaal version of MPC-HC? And if it's open source, couldn't anybody just step in and make it so it can directly play from the disc in full quality? Heck I'd pay for software that could do that.

Adub · 5th March 2009, 08:22

Why would you have problems playing off the disk? Any DVD HD supports real time decryption, so it should work just fine.

The latest builds of MPC-HC should be able to play most of the HD files from HD DVD and Blu-ray just fine. I know because I have done it myself.

You won't have menu's or anything, but you should be able to play the main movie by selecting the (usually two) largest files.

ranpha · 5th March 2009, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin7777

Why would you have problems playing off the disk? Any DVD HD supports real time decryption, so it should work just fine.

The latest builds of MPC-HC should be able to play most of the HD files from HD DVD and Blu-ray just fine. I know because I have done it myself.

You won't have menu's or anything, but you should be able to play the main movie by selecting the (usually two) largest files.

He wants the audio not to be downsampled, which is impossible even with AnyDVD HD installed. Video is not a problem.

Want pristine audio? Ripping is the only way for now.

NanoBot · 6th March 2009, 00:32

Hi,

could you please explain your statement about downsampling, ranpha ? If I use AnyDVD HD, I have direct access to the unencrypted m2ts file on the bluray disk so I'am able to play it back using the media player classic. MPC uses either Haalis splitter or it's internal ts splitter. If the audio is Dolby TrueHD, it is decoded by the internal AC3 decoder. So where in that playback chain do you see the component which forces a downsampling ? Is the internal AC3 decoder only capable of decoding to 16bit or 48khz ?

If the audio track in question is a DTS MA track, I would need e.g. the direct show decoder filter from Arcsoft to decode it. In this case I could imagine, that this filter forces a downsampling, if no complete DRM chain is detected, but why should the MPC internal AC3 decoder do such a thing ?

Sorry for asking, but the "best" bluray including a lossless audio track I own is "I, Robot", which contains a 24bit / 48khz DTS MA track. So I was not able to check, if TrueHD or DTS MA tracks are really downsampled, if they are played back by a "non-certified" program like MPC.

C.U. NanoBot

DJ Bobo · 6th March 2009, 01:08

There is no noticeable quality loss due to the downsampling, so you don't need to worry

You would need the best (most expensive!) equipment and very fine ears to tell the difference between 16-bit/48KHz and 24-bit/96KHz audio. Indeed, the difference is more theoretical than practical.
Cheers

003 · 6th March 2009, 04:47

It still pisses me off that I can't easily watch movies that I purchase in full quality, when the hardware is otherwise clearly capable.

Also, while you are correct that it is near impossible to tell the difference between a recording that is mastered as 16/48 vs something mastered as 24/96 (or 24/192), that changes when you take a recording mastered as 24/96 and then downsample it to 16/48. There are many different algorithms for upsampling and downsampling, some of course better or worse, and if you do ABX testing between something that has been downsampled with a not so great algorithm, you can hear a definite difference. And I'm guessing that since the downsampling is used for DRM purposes, a high quality algorithm is probably not employed, seeing as the whole point of the downsampling is to prevent you from having access to the HD content when you lack "certified" HDMI capable hardware and could potentially rip it and use it illegally (which, of course, is still possible).

So in the end, the only person that gets burned here is the legal end user.

And since it IS possible to rip it in full quality, that means it is obviously possible to access the content, which means it should be possible to code a player or plugin that would give access to the full quality audio without an HDMI connection... I would be more than willing to pay for something that does that.

setarip_old · 6th March 2009, 05:06

Quote:

I would be more than willing to pay for something that does that.

(Joking) Perhaps a standalone BluRay player?

DJ Bobo · 6th March 2009, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003

There are many different algorithms for upsampling and downsampling, some of course better or worse.

I agree, but I don't think WinDVD or PowerDVD have bad quality algorithms.

@ setarip
Nice one *lol*
Reminds me of the time I needed digital satellite TV and dumped an internal satellite TV-card for an external receiver and an analog TV-card just to be able to use DScaler and its deinterlacing capabilities.

5th March 2009, 05:54	#1 \| Link
003 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4	Playing Blu-ray on Windows XP... Wow finally I can post, that 5 day thing was annoying I'm obviously new here and I am looking for some help. Let me relay my relevant system information: OS----------Windows XP x64 SP2 Video card---GTX280 (using DVI-D) Sound card--Auzentech X-fi Forte (using stereo analog out) Monitor------NEC LCD2490WUXi (using DVI-D) Bluray drive--Pioneer BDR-S03J I own a lifetime license for AnyDVD HD. Now to get to the point of my thread. I want to be able to play Bluray movies on my PC in full quality, with no downsampling of the audio or video at all. Normally, Bluray DRM will downsample the audio and video on a system that lacks HDMI connections on the sound card and video card. However, since I own AnyDVD HD, the DRM is automatically stripped from the Bluray disc when it is put in the PC, and you have access to the full quality audio and video. Unfortunately, things aren't that easy. To my knowledge, all software capable of playing Bluray discs will still downsample the audio and video automatically, even if it technically has access to the full resolution content thanks to AnyDVD HD. My question is, are there any software players that will be able to play the Bluray moves in full quality and resolution under the outlined circumstances? I really need to figure out how to make this work, please someone help me. And if this has been covered a lot before, I'm sorry. I used search and didn't find anything relevant.

5th March 2009, 08:22	#6 \| Link
Adub Fighting spam with a fish Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,699	Why would you have problems playing off the disk? Any DVD HD supports real time decryption, so it should work just fine. The latest builds of MPC-HC should be able to play most of the HD files from HD DVD and Blu-ray just fine. I know because I have done it myself. You won't have menu's or anything, but you should be able to play the main movie by selecting the (usually two) largest files. __________________ FAQs:Bond's AVC/H.264 FAQ Site:Adubvideo

6th March 2009, 00:32	#8 \| Link
NanoBot Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 209	Hi, could you please explain your statement about downsampling, ranpha ? If I use AnyDVD HD, I have direct access to the unencrypted m2ts file on the bluray disk so I'am able to play it back using the media player classic. MPC uses either Haalis splitter or it's internal ts splitter. If the audio is Dolby TrueHD, it is decoded by the internal AC3 decoder. So where in that playback chain do you see the component which forces a downsampling ? Is the internal AC3 decoder only capable of decoding to 16bit or 48khz ? If the audio track in question is a DTS MA track, I would need e.g. the direct show decoder filter from Arcsoft to decode it. In this case I could imagine, that this filter forces a downsampling, if no complete DRM chain is detected, but why should the MPC internal AC3 decoder do such a thing ? Sorry for asking, but the "best" bluray including a lossless audio track I own is "I, Robot", which contains a 24bit / 48khz DTS MA track. So I was not able to check, if TrueHD or DTS MA tracks are really downsampled, if they are played back by a "non-certified" program like MPC. C.U. NanoBot Last edited by NanoBot; 6th March 2009 at 19:30. Reason: Typo fixed

6th March 2009, 01:08	#9 \| Link
DJ Bobo Encoding Dinosaur! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 1,668	There is no noticeable quality loss due to the downsampling, so you don't need to worry You would need the best (most expensive!) equipment and very fine ears to tell the difference between 16-bit/48KHz and 24-bit/96KHz audio. Indeed, the difference is more theoretical than practical. Cheers __________________ AMD Athlon X2 QL-60 (1.9GHz) - 3GB DDR2-667 - ATi Radeon HD 3200 - Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit Encode to Vorbis at ultra high speed using SSE3 multithreaded encoder by Lancer!

6th March 2009, 04:47	#10 \| Link
003 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4	It still pisses me off that I can't easily watch movies that I purchase in full quality, when the hardware is otherwise clearly capable. Also, while you are correct that it is near impossible to tell the difference between a recording that is mastered as 16/48 vs something mastered as 24/96 (or 24/192), that changes when you take a recording mastered as 24/96 and then downsample it to 16/48. There are many different algorithms for upsampling and downsampling, some of course better or worse, and if you do ABX testing between something that has been downsampled with a not so great algorithm, you can hear a definite difference. And I'm guessing that since the downsampling is used for DRM purposes, a high quality algorithm is probably not employed, seeing as the whole point of the downsampling is to prevent you from having access to the HD content when you lack "certified" HDMI capable hardware and could potentially rip it and use it illegally (which, of course, is still possible). So in the end, the only person that gets burned here is the legal end user. And since it IS possible to rip it in full quality, that means it is obviously possible to access the content, which means it should be possible to code a player or plugin that would give access to the full quality audio without an HDMI connection... I would be more than willing to pay for something that does that. Last edited by 003; 6th March 2009 at 04:58.

5th March 2009, 07:12	#2 \| Link
ranpha Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 335	Play off the disc? No. You have to rip the Blu-ray disc if you want to get untouched audio and videos. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822 for more info.

5th March 2009, 07:25	#3 \| Link
003 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4	That is so lame Is there any software being developed that will be able to just play off the disc? I mean, it seems to me that it would be rather simple to do, with AnyDVD stripping the DRM and all Thanks for the guide though. Wow it is so long. And blu-ray movies are sure to take up a huge amount of space and take a long time to rip and encode Why hasn't some open source player been able to achieve this by now?

5th March 2009, 08:08	#5 \| Link
003 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4	Ok, well I guess thats the best solution so far.. but man it does suck you can't just play the disc. I mean, what the heck is the reasoning behind that? Obviously it doesn't protect the content in any way, seeing how easily it can be ripped... Should I use the Beliyaal version of MPC-HC? And if it's open source, couldn't anybody just step in and make it so it can directly play from the disc in full quality? Heck I'd pay for software that could do that.