Let's vote on Rule 12 - Page 4

dragongodz · 20th December 2003, 12:38

yes the numbers say pretty clearly what those wanting to vote think about this. if people dont like it then, as they have already said, go to a different forum.

but i will sum up yet again what has been said. you can give your opinions on a piece of software and compare it to something similar. you can ask about specifics(functions, shortcoming,bugs etc) about a program. you simply can not ask such a general question as "whats best".

this thread is not flogging a dead horse, its flogged, buried, dug back up and flogged some more. enough already please.

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 13:06

good post dragongodz but I'm sure the non believers may still have their say

I'm one trying to bury it

, so maybe we should cremate it instead

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 16:59

MackemX, you've certainly got a lot to write still considering you've not got the time to answer simple questions. The only people going on about it now are the people trying to justify it, so why don't you keep your opinion and we'll keep ours and enjoy the unrestricted posts on other forums as well as the more draconian one here.

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 18:06

that's because there isn't any 'lazy' what's best threads at the minute

, I wonder why?

you are the one still coming back trying to justify why it shouldn't be there

why not just accept it will not be changed and be done with and why even bother posting what you just did

there is a BIG difference between what I would call a simple question and a lazy simple question

this is the difference you don't seem to see or do see it but enjoy trying to bleat on about why rule 12 shouldn't be there and stir a little?

seeing as I have a few minutes to spare I will give you an example of the difference

as I'm off out on the lash later tonight with the Lads down the Town for a proper XMAS booze up and doing a bit ratting also

lazy simple question :
what's the best transcoder for quality?

simple question :
I have tried DVDShrink, IC7, IC8 and CloneDVD and I think IC8 is the best quality. Does anyone agree or know anything that produces better quality?

basically it's the same question but the 2nd shows the poster got off his fat lazy ass and at least tried first

the rule is only as severe or as restrictive as you wish it to be, but it's actually quite tame if you step back a bit

p.s. what's the 'best' nightclub to go to find beautiful looking women? Maybe trying to answer this will help the non believers understand why rule #12 is existence. For those who don't then I just don't know what else to say

p.p.s IvIark, 12 of your 13 posts in this forum are in this thread, the only other was way back in March so don't start questioning whether I post replies to simple threads because I do but sometimes I'm selective for my own personal reasons

. Don't worry, I ain't biting I'm just nibbling

2COOL · 20th December 2003, 18:26

________________________________________________
1. Are you lazy?

"Yes, I sure am!"> Repeat step 1
"No, I'm ready!"> Go to step 2
________________________________________________
2. Have you done any research in this forum and outside of it too?

"Yes, but I haven't found an answer to help me decide"> Go to step 3
"Yes, I really like the program after what I've read"> Then buy/use it.
"No, I haven't done any yet"> Read Forum rule #1. Repeat step 1
________________________________________________
3. Did you try out the trialware?

"Yes, I've tried it"> Go to step 4
"No, I haven't yet"> Go to step 1
"There isn't one available"> Either find another program that has one or buy it at your own risk. Go to step 1
________________________________________________
4. Like what you see?

"Yes, the program looks promising."> Add program to a compare list, go to step 5
"No, this program is crap!"> Test another and repeat step 3
________________________________________________
5. Did you decide what's best in your compare list?

"Yes, I really love this program!"> Then use it. This is your "BEST".
"No, I'm still undecided on getting my so-called best program"> Post a specific question concerning the grey areas of the program. Read and abide by Forum rule #12.
________________________________________________

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 18:30

Quote:

you are the one still coming back trying to justify why it shouldn't be there

No I'm not. I've already explained that I don't care if it stays here or not, it really isn't going to change my life one way or the other and people don't need to spend all their time at one forum do they?

Quote:

I have tried DVDShrink, IC7, IC8 and CloneDVD and I think IC8 is the best quality. Does anyone agree or know anything that produces better quality?

You're preaching to the converted, I already said exactly the same thing days ago.

Quote:

p.p.s IvIark, 12 of your 13 posts in this forum are in this thread, the only other was way back in March so don't start questioning whether I post replies to simple threads because I do but sometimes I'm selective for my own personal reasons . Don't worry, I ain't biting I'm just nibbling

Look I appreciate that you probably have much more time for ventures that you have a commercial return on, but like I said, not everyone feels the same way as you about sharing information. I don't think I could alter your opinion and nor do I want to as it is completely irrelevant to me. This thread asked for opinions and I gave mine that it is unnecessarily restrictive and if you don't like it, then don't read it.

Enjoy your night
Mark

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 18:43

so what has what I do with my time got to do at all with rule #12? and why did you post that in your previous post and even again in your last post mentioning commercial?

. Why single me out in your post?. Maybe I should start a thread and ask what's 'best' for me to do with my spare time?

give me a break man and give up trying to get me to bite

. I ain't gonna bite but I will chew on you for now and spit you out when I'm finished playing cos at the minute I've nothing to do before I go out

even the 'if you don't like it, don't read it' attitude is a thing I grew out of a while back as it's a pathetic attitude to have

I guess if I go back to being a kid I could now say if 'I don't want to read it, then please will you not write it in the first place'

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 18:52

Quote:

even the 'if you don't like it, don't read it' attitude is a thing I grew out of a while back as it's a pathetic attitude to have

LOL, well as the phrase "Sunderland Intellect" is a blatant oxymoron, I don't think I'll feel too slighted by your comment. Chill out man and have that beer you've promised yourself.

Mark

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 18:58

Quote:

Originally posted by IvIark
LOL, well as the phrase "Sunderland Intellect" is a blatant oxymoron, I don't think I'll feel too slighted by your comment. Chill out man and have that beer you've promised yourself.

Mark

again what has Sunderland got to do with rule #12?

I suggest you try staying on topic instead of personalizing posts and I'm chilled don't worry as all I'm doing is feeding your ego

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 19:05

Quote:

again what has Sunderland got to do with rule #12?

About as much as my pathetic attitude I would say.

Mark

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 19:09

you started it

, nah nah nah nah nah naaaaaaa!

roflmao

p.s. If you read what I said, I said it was a pathetic attitude I dropped, so what's pathetic to me may not be pathetic to others. Won't that fit into the 'each to his own' category?
I didn't say you were pathetic

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 19:20

Quote:

so what's pathetic to me may not be pathetic to others.

You mean like rule 12?

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 19:23

Quote:

Originally posted by IvIark
You mean like rule 12?

lol

yeah

, exactly

I'm off now, so enjoy all cos I'm sure I will

and Merry XMAS all

2COOL · 20th December 2003, 19:24

Soooo aaannywaaayss...what you think about the guide?

MackemX · 20th December 2003, 19:28

Quote:

Originally posted by 2COOL
Soooo aaannywaaayss...what you think about the guide?

why am I still on step 1???????

IvIark · 20th December 2003, 19:28

Quote:

I'm off now, so enjoy all cos I'm sure I will

Have a good night and don't do too much.

Pass my best on to Ian Freeman if you see him on the door!

Quote:

Soooo aaannywaaayss...what you think about the guide?

That'd do wonders I reckon. I'd vote for that!

Mark

jdobbs · 21st December 2003, 14:01

Sigh...

Let's vote on which is the best rule... right now 12 looks pretty good. You see where these arguments lead?

What does this entire thread have to do with One Click DVD backups?

monomer · 22nd December 2003, 19:24

I voted in this poll way back when it was less than a page long. I always choose the "free speech" option when offered a choice. I thought of this whole thread as a 'lark'... I mean does anybody here really think this forum is a democracy? Unfortuately most of the good forums are all dictatorships of some sort. Have any of you ever visited a forum without any controls??? It quickly becomes the playground for foul-mouthed 13-year boys who have no real friends to play with. This is their chance to bait the "adults" and to become "smart-asses" in a protected environment. This has the effect of 'running off' all the intelligent people that contribute while leaving behind only those who can be 'baited' (you know the type that has to always get in the last word)... this makes the forum useless to any further intelligent discussion on any subject of importance. You've got to have moderators (forum police) that enforce the rules (laws) often uni-laterally and then the forum members (meaning 'you') have the choice of whether or not to participate and to what extent. If everyone leaves the forum because of draeconian measures being enforced, the forum either changes its rules or dies... so in a strange sense, this is a type of democracy and your vote is to participate or not.

Being a forum moderator is prabably one of the most thankless tasks on the internet... I'm glad these forums have them... its the 'rules' I often have the major problem with. I believe that asking "what's best?" is not the problem and it certainly doesn't need to be curtailed... its some of the responses that need to be 'toned down' by the moderators when it gets 'foul-mouthed', involves personnal attacks on character, name calling, and/or turns into 'gang-bangs'. Though I really dislike the limiting of 'free-speech', I also realise that too much of the wrong kind of 'free-speech' can destroy as well.

writersblock29 · 23rd December 2003, 04:02

@monomer

My very first experience in a forum was some years ago, participating on Electra's Metallica fansite (MOSHBOSS was my username, to those who may care). So I absolutely agree with many of your comments -- as would anyone who had (or has... I'm not even sure if that forum exists anymore) visited that site. To allow free reign to anyone who would step up on a soapbox is absolutely, undeniably, asking for trouble. So I'll second your statements about the need for moderators. As a whole, I think the mods on this forum do a damned fine job! Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, indeed... but some people have a lot to say about nothing -- and are authorities on that very subject!

However, I do question just what value my (or anyone else's) opinion holds when it's concerning my favorite transcoder. Let's say my favorite is DVD2ONE. Someone else will tell me I'm nuts, and that the quality sucks. This may prevent someone else who may well have been satisfied with DVD2ONE from ever trying it. The question of "what's best" really is only an invite for people's opinions, after all, since the very concept of "best" is subjective. Not only that, but a software developer who reads tons of negative feedback (and we know how constructive the negative feedback on this or any thread tends to be!) about his product isn't bound to post said forum concerning updates and the like.

It makes far more sense to simply allow discusion on the various products themselves, as far as features and functions are concerned. Reporting problems and asking questions -- not to mention, supplying answers to the problems of others. Only through these methods can we give the reader the means to make up his or her own mind about what to try, and allow them to draw their own conclusions. If they're happy with a particular product... then life's good and all's peaceful. If not, then they can quickly gather information which will make them all the wiser for making a new choice.

To ask a moderator to "tone down" the remarks is to ask them to censor... "censor" is a word that makes me cringe! If ever a post of mine were edited, I'd be bound to never post again. It really becomes the responsibility of the poster themselves to be respectful of others. Maturity -- while becoming increasingly rare in today's world -- is the key that moderators can't provide if we're to openly voice our experiences and solve problems here. All they can really do is to close the thread when it's getting out of hand -- a task I've seen them do many times here.

For these reasons, I've voted in favor of Rule 12.

...Of course, that's only MY two cents -- and that's probably charging too much!

--Cheers!

monomer · 23rd December 2003, 06:09

writersblock29 (...are there really 28 others or is this the 29th time?)

For all the discussions/arguments I've witnessed on forums (and that's a lot of 'em!) I have almost never seen one where someone actually admits to having had their point of view changed, ("What? Hell no! Why that's almost like admitting I was wrong! NEVER!")... its just normal human nature to be stubborn. In most discussions/arguments, each person will take a position and then defend it to the bitter end. While a discussion may not cause anyone to actually change their viewpoint, I believe that in defending one's position it often forces us to examine the subject matter much more carefully and can even lead us to making some observations and drawing conclusions that we didn't have before... thus having the effect of making us think clearer about the subject and also possibly improve our written communications skills. I believe that as long as the discussion is based upon logic and/or data and/or research and/or relevant experiences the exercise can be worthwhile for both participants and observers alike. And even if not, a heated discussion is still very entertaining and can sure draw a crowd. Of course the danger here is when some of the 'combatants' resort to one- or two-liner 'zingers' meant to inflict hurt, name calling to besmirch character, or a group 'gang-bang' with a flush of idiotic one-liners like "me too" or "I agree with him"... these tactics do nothing to add to the discussion but are only meant to 'silence' or intimidate the 'opposition'. Unfortunately it often works by driving someone off the forum forever... how sad...

What I meant by using the term "tone down" was when things start getting out-of-hand the moderator should try to 'set the appropriate tone' for the discussion by interjecting a reminder to respect and tolerate other opinions. If appropriately timed and carefully worded, often that is all that's necessary to turn a deteriorating discussion back to productivity. However, if no one takes the hint, then a 'veiled' threat is in order... if they still don't get it, a tersely worded ultimatum should be next... if it still continues only then invoke censorship by closing/removing the thread. I've witnessed past moderator interventions on this forum that followed this model. What I'm trying to say here is... censor the 'rude responses' and not the innocent newbie question of "What's best?"

View Poll Results: Do we keep rule 12 ?
Yes we want to keep rule 12	50	68.49%
No we don't want to keep rule 12	23	31.51%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

20th December 2003, 18:06	#64 \| Link
MackemX ..DVD GOD.. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838	that's because there isn't any 'lazy' what's best threads at the minute , I wonder why? you are the one still coming back trying to justify why it shouldn't be there why not just accept it will not be changed and be done with and why even bother posting what you just did there is a BIG difference between what I would call a simple question and a lazy simple question this is the difference you don't seem to see or do see it but enjoy trying to bleat on about why rule 12 shouldn't be there and stir a little? seeing as I have a few minutes to spare I will give you an example of the difference as I'm off out on the lash later tonight with the Lads down the Town for a proper XMAS booze up and doing a bit ratting also lazy simple question : what's the best transcoder for quality? simple question : I have tried DVDShrink, IC7, IC8 and CloneDVD and I think IC8 is the best quality. Does anyone agree or know anything that produces better quality? basically it's the same question but the 2nd shows the poster got off his fat lazy ass and at least tried first the rule is only as severe or as restrictive as you wish it to be, but it's actually quite tame if you step back a bit p.s. what's the 'best' nightclub to go to find beautiful looking women? Maybe trying to answer this will help the non believers understand why rule #12 is existence. For those who don't then I just don't know what else to say p.p.s IvIark, 12 of your 13 posts in this forum are in this thread, the only other was way back in March so don't start questioning whether I post replies to simple threads because I do but sometimes I'm selective for my own personal reasons . Don't worry, I ain't biting I'm just nibbling Last edited by MackemX; 20th December 2003 at 18:15.

20th December 2003, 18:26	#65 \| Link
2COOL PGC Navigator in Training Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NTSC Land Posts: 3,552	________________________________________________ 1. Are you lazy? "Yes, I sure am!"> Repeat step 1 "No, I'm ready!"> Go to step 2 ________________________________________________ 2. Have you done any research in this forum and outside of it too? "Yes, but I haven't found an answer to help me decide"> Go to step 3 "Yes, I really like the program after what I've read"> Then buy/use it. "No, I haven't done any yet"> Read Forum rule #1. Repeat step 1 ________________________________________________ 3. Did you try out the trialware? "Yes, I've tried it"> Go to step 4 "No, I haven't yet"> Go to step 1 "There isn't one available"> Either find another program that has one or buy it at your own risk. Go to step 1 ________________________________________________ 4. Like what you see? "Yes, the program looks promising."> Add program to a compare list, go to step 5 "No, this program is crap!"> Test another and repeat step 3 ________________________________________________ 5. Did you decide what's best in your compare list? "Yes, I really love this program!"> Then use it. This is your "BEST". "No, I'm still undecided on getting my so-called best program"> Post a specific question concerning the grey areas of the program. Read and abide by Forum rule #12. ________________________________________________ __________________ 2COOL

20th December 2003, 19:09	#71 \| Link
MackemX ..DVD GOD.. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838	you started it , nah nah nah nah nah naaaaaaa! roflmao p.s. If you read what I said, I said it was a pathetic attitude I dropped, so what's pathetic to me may not be pathetic to others. Won't that fit into the 'each to his own' category? I didn't say you were pathetic Last edited by MackemX; 20th December 2003 at 19:13.

20th December 2003, 19:24	#74 \| Link
2COOL PGC Navigator in Training Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NTSC Land Posts: 3,552	Soooo aaannywaaayss...what you think about the guide? __________________ 2COOL

20th December 2003, 12:38	#61 \| Link
dragongodz .... Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 2,797	yes the numbers say pretty clearly what those wanting to vote think about this. if people dont like it then, as they have already said, go to a different forum. but i will sum up yet again what has been said. you can give your opinions on a piece of software and compare it to something similar. you can ask about specifics(functions, shortcoming,bugs etc) about a program. you simply can not ask such a general question as "whats best". this thread is not flogging a dead horse, its flogged, buried, dug back up and flogged some more. enough already please.

20th December 2003, 13:06	#62 \| Link
MackemX ..DVD GOD.. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838	good post dragongodz but I'm sure the non believers may still have their say I'm one trying to bury it , so maybe we should cremate it instead

20th December 2003, 16:59	#63 \| Link
IvIark Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 21	MackemX, you've certainly got a lot to write still considering you've not got the time to answer simple questions. The only people going on about it now are the people trying to justify it, so why don't you keep your opinion and we'll keep ours and enjoy the unrestricted posts on other forums as well as the more draconian one here.

20th December 2003, 18:43	#67 \| Link
MackemX ..DVD GOD.. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,838	so what has what I do with my time got to do at all with rule #12? and why did you post that in your previous post and even again in your last post mentioning commercial? . Why single me out in your post?. Maybe I should start a thread and ask what's 'best' for me to do with my spare time? give me a break man and give up trying to get me to bite . I ain't gonna bite but I will chew on you for now and spit you out when I'm finished playing cos at the minute I've nothing to do before I go out even the 'if you don't like it, don't read it' attitude is a thing I grew out of a while back as it's a pathetic attitude to have I guess if I go back to being a kid I could now say if 'I don't want to read it, then please will you not write it in the first place'

21st December 2003, 14:01	#77 \| Link
jdobbs Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 20,976	Sigh... Let's vote on which is the best rule... right now 12 looks pretty good. You see where these arguments lead? What does this entire thread have to do with One Click DVD backups? __________________ Help with development of new apps: Donations. Website: www.jdobbs.net Last edited by jdobbs; 21st December 2003 at 14:04.

22nd December 2003, 19:24	#78 \| Link
monomer Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 140	If I give you my 2 cents, can I expect any change back? I voted in this poll way back when it was less than a page long. I always choose the "free speech" option when offered a choice. I thought of this whole thread as a 'lark'... I mean does anybody here really think this forum is a democracy? Unfortuately most of the good forums are all dictatorships of some sort. Have any of you ever visited a forum without any controls??? It quickly becomes the playground for foul-mouthed 13-year boys who have no real friends to play with. This is their chance to bait the "adults" and to become "smart-asses" in a protected environment. This has the effect of 'running off' all the intelligent people that contribute while leaving behind only those who can be 'baited' (you know the type that has to always get in the last word)... this makes the forum useless to any further intelligent discussion on any subject of importance. You've got to have moderators (forum police) that enforce the rules (laws) often uni-laterally and then the forum members (meaning 'you') have the choice of whether or not to participate and to what extent. If everyone leaves the forum because of draeconian measures being enforced, the forum either changes its rules or dies... so in a strange sense, this is a type of democracy and your vote is to participate or not. Being a forum moderator is prabably one of the most thankless tasks on the internet... I'm glad these forums have them... its the 'rules' I often have the major problem with. I believe that asking "what's best?" is not the problem and it certainly doesn't need to be curtailed... its some of the responses that need to be 'toned down' by the moderators when it gets 'foul-mouthed', involves personnal attacks on character, name calling, and/or turns into 'gang-bangs'. Though I really dislike the limiting of 'free-speech', I also realise that too much of the wrong kind of 'free-speech' can destroy as well.

23rd December 2003, 04:02	#79 \| Link
writersblock29 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 618	@monomer My very first experience in a forum was some years ago, participating on Electra's Metallica fansite (MOSHBOSS was my username, to those who may care). So I absolutely agree with many of your comments -- as would anyone who had (or has... I'm not even sure if that forum exists anymore) visited that site. To allow free reign to anyone who would step up on a soapbox is absolutely, undeniably, asking for trouble. So I'll second your statements about the need for moderators. As a whole, I think the mods on this forum do a damned fine job! Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, indeed... but some people have a lot to say about nothing -- and are authorities on that very subject! However, I do question just what value my (or anyone else's) opinion holds when it's concerning my favorite transcoder. Let's say my favorite is DVD2ONE. Someone else will tell me I'm nuts, and that the quality sucks. This may prevent someone else who may well have been satisfied with DVD2ONE from ever trying it. The question of "what's best" really is only an invite for people's opinions, after all, since the very concept of "best" is subjective. Not only that, but a software developer who reads tons of negative feedback (and we know how constructive the negative feedback on this or any thread tends to be!) about his product isn't bound to post said forum concerning updates and the like. It makes far more sense to simply allow discusion on the various products themselves, as far as features and functions are concerned. Reporting problems and asking questions -- not to mention, supplying answers to the problems of others. Only through these methods can we give the reader the means to make up his or her own mind about what to try, and allow them to draw their own conclusions. If they're happy with a particular product... then life's good and all's peaceful. If not, then they can quickly gather information which will make them all the wiser for making a new choice. To ask a moderator to "tone down" the remarks is to ask them to censor... "censor" is a word that makes me cringe! If ever a post of mine were edited, I'd be bound to never post again. It really becomes the responsibility of the poster themselves to be respectful of others. Maturity -- while becoming increasingly rare in today's world -- is the key that moderators can't provide if we're to openly voice our experiences and solve problems here. All they can really do is to close the thread when it's getting out of hand -- a task I've seen them do many times here. For these reasons, I've voted in favor of Rule 12. ...Of course, that's only MY two cents -- and that's probably charging too much! --Cheers!

23rd December 2003, 06:09	#80 \| Link
monomer Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 140	writersblock29 (...are there really 28 others or is this the 29th time?) For all the discussions/arguments I've witnessed on forums (and that's a lot of 'em!) I have almost never seen one where someone actually admits to having had their point of view changed, ("What? Hell no! Why that's almost like admitting I was wrong! NEVER!")... its just normal human nature to be stubborn. In most discussions/arguments, each person will take a position and then defend it to the bitter end. While a discussion may not cause anyone to actually change their viewpoint, I believe that in defending one's position it often forces us to examine the subject matter much more carefully and can even lead us to making some observations and drawing conclusions that we didn't have before... thus having the effect of making us think clearer about the subject and also possibly improve our written communications skills. I believe that as long as the discussion is based upon logic and/or data and/or research and/or relevant experiences the exercise can be worthwhile for both participants and observers alike. And even if not, a heated discussion is still very entertaining and can sure draw a crowd. Of course the danger here is when some of the 'combatants' resort to one- or two-liner 'zingers' meant to inflict hurt, name calling to besmirch character, or a group 'gang-bang' with a flush of idiotic one-liners like "me too" or "I agree with him"... these tactics do nothing to add to the discussion but are only meant to 'silence' or intimidate the 'opposition'. Unfortunately it often works by driving someone off the forum forever... how sad... What I meant by using the term "tone down" was when things start getting out-of-hand the moderator should try to 'set the appropriate tone' for the discussion by interjecting a reminder to respect and tolerate other opinions. If appropriately timed and carefully worded, often that is all that's necessary to turn a deteriorating discussion back to productivity. However, if no one takes the hint, then a 'veiled' threat is in order... if they still don't get it, a tersely worded ultimatum should be next... if it still continues only then invoke censorship by closing/removing the thread. I've witnessed past moderator interventions on this forum that followed this model. What I'm trying to say here is... censor the 'rude responses' and not the innocent newbie question of "What's best?"