DVD burners to replace a DVD-ROM drive

Doom9 · 27th March 2003, 23:15

As you may know, I recently purchased a Shuttle XPC (barebone computer) that has only one 5.25" slot so I need a drive that is good for everything. It has to fullfil the following criteria:
1) RPC-1 firmware must be available
2) Resonable CD burning performance (16x or higher for CD-R, 10x for CD-RW)
3) Reasonable CD reading speed and access time
4) Reasonable DVD reading speed including CSS encrypted dual layer DVDs (8x or more)

I guess I'm asking for the impossible but you never know. My trusty Pioneer 104 which I currently have in use writes CD-Rs slow as hell, doesn't do 4x DVDs and most importantly rips CSS encrypted DVDs at 2x speed (I used to have a Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM in my old PC so you know what performance I'm expecting when reading DVDs

I also have a Sony DRU-500A in my 2nd computer, and while it does 4x and writes CD-R/Ws at reasonable speed it only rips DVDs at 2x and there's no RPC-1 fimware yet. The situation is essentially the same for the Pioneer 105/A05, and at least the RPC situation is the same for every recent DVD±R/W drive but the firmware situation may change one day so the most important would be to have at least reasonable CD writing and DVD reading capabilities. Does anybody know a DVD burner that can go beyond reading encrypted DVD-9s at 2x speed?

FranchiseJuan · 27th March 2003, 23:44

Have you considered having an external Drive trough the use of a USB2 or firewire connection on the shuttle?

Doom9 · 28th March 2003, 00:04

before you all swamp me with useless answers: I want to know if there's any DVD±R/W that comes close to my requirements.. nothing else. I know of dozens of alternatives myself. The main reason I started this thread is to find out if there are any DVD±R/W drives that rip at more than 2x speed. I know there's not much chance of finding a drive that does it all but chances of eventually getting a drive RPC-1 aren't that bad, yet get a firmware upgrade that increases your ripping speed, that has yet to happen.

Prosper · 28th March 2003, 01:08

I don't know of any DVD drive, DVD-R, RW, or ROM that supports sustained 8x transfers from dual-layered discs, unless you're talking about the rated speeds, rather than the real-world ones

Scipio · 28th March 2003, 01:48

Errm, I may post the results of my NEC-1100A burner:
Starts at 2,1x and tops out at 4,4x - this was seen when ripping 4,22 GB off a DVD-9. The whole process took about 15 minutes.

I don't want to destroy your hopes, but I guess you won't find the perfect drive in the near future. Fast CD Writing is possible soon, but the DVD reading/ripping (and also CD Reading) is a real pain with DVD writers. I for my part am still happy with my case, but like the idea of the Shuttle barebone, too. Since I've got my DVD Burner in an external Firewire/USB2 aluminium case (silver), it would perfectly match the Shuttle. As a CD-RW Drive I'd use the LG 48x/24x/48x/16x Combo-Drive (the 16x being the DVD Read-Speed) which fits the bill of a one-drive-solution pretty well. And with a "boxed" DVD-burner I'm more flexible anyway... but enough said. Only one thing: The LG combo drive goes for around 85 Euro... after my vacation next week, I'll order that from the internet and post DVD-Ripping results (since I'm not too sure what the 16x really yields with encrypted DVD-9).

good luck with waiting for the Godot of the DVD burners, though.

int_53185 · 28th March 2003, 03:56

HI been looking at a Toshiba DVD-R drive from next hardware shop for 168 dollars US. for my next system...rated at 10X for reading dvd's...the fastest ive seen for a burner.....good luck

abbadon · 28th March 2003, 05:40

my toshiba sd-r5002 rips as high at 12x quite often at then end of a dual layer, though it all depends very heavily on the quality of the dvd. A brand new dvd will average around 8x for the whole rip, while an old scratched rental will often average 4x. I assume this is consistant for all dvd rips, as error correction comes into play with old discs. However, this drive is only 2x write at the moment, so that may limit you.

Doom9 · 28th March 2003, 10:22

well.. at least we already have 2 burners capable of going higher than 2x ripping so that's a start. I'm also wondering about recently released drives like the Plextor or Teac models.

neuerkunde · 28th March 2003, 11:56

Here is a comparison of the toshiba sdr 5002 and the Pioneer a04/104.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/toshiba-sd-r5002/

greets iggi

Charbax2 · 28th March 2003, 17:52

I have a Shuttle Barebone SG-41, and I am REALLY planning on putting a Sony DRU 500AX in it. Ordering from europe I go on http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/
http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/
http://digitalpromo.co.uk/

to buy the drive and discs.. and some info about DVD-burners and discs on:

http://www.dvd-recordable.org/
http://www.disqworld.net/

I hope I'm not doing the wrong thing getting this Sony DVD-burner instead of the Pioneer 105.

I look forward to rip DVDs, hope Sony will release firmware to upgrade burning/ripping speeds in the future.

If anyone got some more clever info and links please post here.

jsl · 28th March 2003, 20:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Doom9
well.. at least we already have 2 burners capable of going higher than 2x ripping so that's a start. I'm also wondering about recently released drives like the Plextor or Teac models.

The Plextor is basically a rebadged NEC ND-1100 and so it has the same specifications (2x-5x CAV reading for CSS encrypted DVDs, average speed about 3.8x for single layer and 3.4x for dual layer).
The TEAC is a rebadged Pioneer so I assume it's limited to 2x ripping.

Charbax2 · 28th March 2003, 21:57

Does this mean that currently available DVD-burners rip DVDs slower than currently available DVD-ROM players on a PC?

Would one maybe expect Sony, Pioneer and the others soon to come with a DVD-burner that rips DVD faster and burns CDs as fast as the currently available CD-burners?

Has anyone heard of any possible faster than 4x DVD-burning technology that would come soon?

I hate to buy a Sony DVD-burner tomorrow and find out in 2 days Sony are comming with a new faster and cheaper model in one week..

Scipio · 28th March 2003, 22:12

Quote:

I have a Shuttle Barebone SG-41, and I am REALLY planning on putting a Sony DRU 500AX in it.

@ Charbax

Doom9 already owns Sony's DRU500A(X). And he isn't satisfied with it as a single all-in-one drive (mainly due to low ripping speed and no RC1 firmware available with the first being more important since it probably won't change).

So... basically, we still have no burner that fits the bill...

The Toshiba with its very speedy 1x -RW doesn't look very impressive today with 4x +RW coming soon from Ricoh. Ricoh is also a nice company to buy optical drives from. Perhaps their 4x/4x DVD+R/W drive will have better dvd9 ripping capabilities.

Ramirez · 28th March 2003, 22:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Scipio

So... basically, we still have no burner that fits the bill... The Toshiba with its very speedy 1x -RW doesn't look very impressive today with 4x +RW coming soon from Ricoh. Ricoh is also a nice company to buy optical drives from. Perhaps their 4x/4x DVD+R/W drive will have better dvd9 ripping capabilities.

But aren't they all supposed to be hardware locked? (2x) I'm talking about this awful MPAA agreement.

Doom9 · 28th March 2003, 23:26

I have never heard anything like that. There's a more plausible explanation for the limitation (which incidentally only applies to encrypted DVDs). When you watch a DVD you don't want to be disturbed by a drive that spins up and down. So locking it may actually lead to a less noisy environment when watching movies (of course, most PCs make that much noise that this limitation has no effect because your GFX card/CPU/case fan will make so much noise that you'll hardly hear your DVD drive).
And btw the new Pioneer just got regionfree.. one step closer to the goal but we're not quite there yet. When is Toshiba going to release a 4x burner?

Charbax2 · 29th March 2003, 01:59

that the new Pioneer got regionfree, does that mean that there is somekind of unofficial firmware that makes it regionfree.

Can't one use the Sony DRU 500AX as a regionfree drive by just using DVD Genie or somekind of program like that?

Charbax2 · 29th March 2003, 02:46

ok I've been reading on

http://forum.rpc1.org/index.php

and

http://www.disqworld.net/

since my last post..

I still can't finsd out which is the DVD burner to get. Pioneer105 or SonyDRU500AX.

And all this about the new regionfree firmware for the Pioneer105.

I guess I am gonna wait until monday to find out which DVD-burner to invest in for my Shuttle BareBone.

I guess whatever Doom9 finds out to be the best I will want to have the same.

Doom9 · 29th March 2003, 11:27

charbax: when you want to rip DVDs from multiple regions RPC-1 is a must. So if you have a Shuttle and don't plan to use an external drive bay for a 2nd drive make sure you get a burner that can be made regionfree. Of course, many people only buy DVDs in the country or region of their origin so they are not restricted by that. You should consider that both Sony and Pioneer have a 2x ripping lock which is quite annoying. Currently it looks like that Toshiba burner is your best shot, the only drawback is that it can only write DVD-Rs at 2x speed.
If you just care to play back DVDs from other regions there are other solutions than an RPC-1 firmware (and all those firmwares are ALWAYS inofficial, drive manufacturers must make their drives region locked or they violate licensing agreements and could no longer sell their drives).
And now back to topic please.. what other burners are there that can rip at higher speeds?

Mr Alien · 29th March 2003, 12:48

The Ricoh MP5125A will read encrypted DVD's faster than 2X, though it never gets near the 8x rating on the box (probably single layer rate). It does however get up to between 3.2x-3.5x on average, which reads a disk in about ~23 minutes. It can also burn +RW disks at 2.4x which is handy. But it's CD writing speed of 12x and 10x for the RW's is a little to slow (I've never used it for CD burning, I use my Lite-on 48x, so I can't tell you how well (quality) it writes them). As for region free, their is an RCP-1 patched bios available from The Firmware Page.
For the price, it's not a bad drive.

Ramirez · 29th March 2003, 13:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Doom9
I have never heard anything like that. There's a more plausible explanation for the limitation (which incidentally only applies to encrypted DVDs). When you watch a DVD you don't want to be disturbed by a drive that spins up and down. So locking it may actually lead to a less noisy environment when watching movies

That’s makes sense and I'd really like to believe that MPAA has nothing to-do with that lock, still I'd like the possibility to have some control over reading speeds. anyway have you seen this?>CeBIT 2003 Coverage < its looks like many interesting (and speedy) DVD burners will be released soon. Making them all RPC-1 it's just a matter of time.

27th March 2003, 23:15	#1 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,579	DVD burners to replace a DVD-ROM drive As you may know, I recently purchased a Shuttle XPC (barebone computer) that has only one 5.25" slot so I need a drive that is good for everything. It has to fullfil the following criteria: 1) RPC-1 firmware must be available 2) Resonable CD burning performance (16x or higher for CD-R, 10x for CD-RW) 3) Reasonable CD reading speed and access time 4) Reasonable DVD reading speed including CSS encrypted dual layer DVDs (8x or more) I guess I'm asking for the impossible but you never know. My trusty Pioneer 104 which I currently have in use writes CD-Rs slow as hell, doesn't do 4x DVDs and most importantly rips CSS encrypted DVDs at 2x speed (I used to have a Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM in my old PC so you know what performance I'm expecting when reading DVDs I also have a Sony DRU-500A in my 2nd computer, and while it does 4x and writes CD-R/Ws at reasonable speed it only rips DVDs at 2x and there's no RPC-1 fimware yet. The situation is essentially the same for the Pioneer 105/A05, and at least the RPC situation is the same for every recent DVD±R/W drive but the firmware situation may change one day so the most important would be to have at least reasonable CD writing and DVD reading capabilities. Does anybody know a DVD burner that can go beyond reading encrypted DVD-9s at 2x speed? __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

27th March 2003, 23:44	#2 \| Link
FranchiseJuan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 42	Have you considered having an external Drive trough the use of a USB2 or firewire connection on the shuttle? __________________ A true Collector Collects Collectors.

28th March 2003, 00:04	#3 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,579	before you all swamp me with useless answers: I want to know if there's any DVD±R/W that comes close to my requirements.. nothing else. I know of dozens of alternatives myself. The main reason I started this thread is to find out if there are any DVD±R/W drives that rip at more than 2x speed. I know there's not much chance of finding a drive that does it all but chances of eventually getting a drive RPC-1 aren't that bad, yet get a firmware upgrade that increases your ripping speed, that has yet to happen. __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

28th March 2003, 01:48	#5 \| Link
Scipio translation mod Join Date: May 2002 Location: http://german.doom9.org/ Posts: 284	Errm, I may post the results of my NEC-1100A burner: Starts at 2,1x and tops out at 4,4x - this was seen when ripping 4,22 GB off a DVD-9. The whole process took about 15 minutes. I don't want to destroy your hopes, but I guess you won't find the perfect drive in the near future. Fast CD Writing is possible soon, but the DVD reading/ripping (and also CD Reading) is a real pain with DVD writers. I for my part am still happy with my case, but like the idea of the Shuttle barebone, too. Since I've got my DVD Burner in an external Firewire/USB2 aluminium case (silver), it would perfectly match the Shuttle. As a CD-RW Drive I'd use the LG 48x/24x/48x/16x Combo-Drive (the 16x being the DVD Read-Speed) which fits the bill of a one-drive-solution pretty well. And with a "boxed" DVD-burner I'm more flexible anyway... but enough said. Only one thing: The LG combo drive goes for around 85 Euro... after my vacation next week, I'll order that from the internet and post DVD-Ripping results (since I'm not too sure what the 16x really yields with encrypted DVD-9). good luck with waiting for the Godot of the DVD burners, though. __________________ [Translation Guidelines] - [Overview of Doom9 translation mirrors] - - - [German Doom9] When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same.

28th March 2003, 05:40	#7 \| Link
abbadon Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 72	my toshiba sd-r5002 rips as high at 12x quite often at then end of a dual layer, though it all depends very heavily on the quality of the dvd. A brand new dvd will average around 8x for the whole rip, while an old scratched rental will often average 4x. I assume this is consistant for all dvd rips, as error correction comes into play with old discs. However, this drive is only 2x write at the moment, so that may limit you. __________________ Win7x64...I had to... RIP WinXP

28th March 2003, 01:08	#4 \| Link
Prosper A Very Silly Person (VSP) Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 87	I don't know of any DVD drive, DVD-R, RW, or ROM that supports sustained 8x transfers from dual-layered discs, unless you're talking about the rated speeds, rather than the real-world ones

28th March 2003, 03:56	#6 \| Link
int_53185 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 11	HI been looking at a Toshiba DVD-R drive from next hardware shop for 168 dollars US. for my next system...rated at 10X for reading dvd's...the fastest ive seen for a burner.....good luck

28th March 2003, 10:22	#8 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,579	well.. at least we already have 2 burners capable of going higher than 2x ripping so that's a start. I'm also wondering about recently released drives like the Plextor or Teac models. __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

28th March 2003, 11:56	#9 \| Link
neuerkunde Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 10	Here is a comparison of the toshiba sdr 5002 and the Pioneer a04/104. http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/toshiba-sd-r5002/ greets iggi

28th March 2003, 17:52	#10 \| Link
Charbax2 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 27	I have a Shuttle Barebone SG-41, and I am REALLY planning on putting a Sony DRU 500AX in it. Ordering from europe I go on http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/ http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/ http://digitalpromo.co.uk/ to buy the drive and discs.. and some info about DVD-burners and discs on: http://www.dvd-recordable.org/ http://www.disqworld.net/ I hope I'm not doing the wrong thing getting this Sony DVD-burner instead of the Pioneer 105. I look forward to rip DVDs, hope Sony will release firmware to upgrade burning/ripping speeds in the future. If anyone got some more clever info and links please post here.

28th March 2003, 21:57	#12 \| Link
Charbax2 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 27	Does this mean that currently available DVD-burners rip DVDs slower than currently available DVD-ROM players on a PC? Would one maybe expect Sony, Pioneer and the others soon to come with a DVD-burner that rips DVD faster and burns CDs as fast as the currently available CD-burners? Has anyone heard of any possible faster than 4x DVD-burning technology that would come soon? I hate to buy a Sony DVD-burner tomorrow and find out in 2 days Sony are comming with a new faster and cheaper model in one week..

28th March 2003, 23:26	#15 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,579	I have never heard anything like that. There's a more plausible explanation for the limitation (which incidentally only applies to encrypted DVDs). When you watch a DVD you don't want to be disturbed by a drive that spins up and down. So locking it may actually lead to a less noisy environment when watching movies (of course, most PCs make that much noise that this limitation has no effect because your GFX card/CPU/case fan will make so much noise that you'll hardly hear your DVD drive). And btw the new Pioneer just got regionfree.. one step closer to the goal but we're not quite there yet. When is Toshiba going to release a 4x burner? __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

29th March 2003, 01:59	#16 \| Link
Charbax2 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 27	that the new Pioneer got regionfree, does that mean that there is somekind of unofficial firmware that makes it regionfree. Can't one use the Sony DRU 500AX as a regionfree drive by just using DVD Genie or somekind of program like that?

29th March 2003, 02:46	#17 \| Link
Charbax2 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 27	ok I've been reading on http://forum.rpc1.org/index.php and http://www.disqworld.net/ since my last post.. I still can't finsd out which is the DVD burner to get. Pioneer105 or SonyDRU500AX. And all this about the new regionfree firmware for the Pioneer105. I guess I am gonna wait until monday to find out which DVD-burner to invest in for my Shuttle BareBone. I guess whatever Doom9 finds out to be the best I will want to have the same.

29th March 2003, 11:27	#18 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,579	charbax: when you want to rip DVDs from multiple regions RPC-1 is a must. So if you have a Shuttle and don't plan to use an external drive bay for a 2nd drive make sure you get a burner that can be made regionfree. Of course, many people only buy DVDs in the country or region of their origin so they are not restricted by that. You should consider that both Sony and Pioneer have a 2x ripping lock which is quite annoying. Currently it looks like that Toshiba burner is your best shot, the only drawback is that it can only write DVD-Rs at 2x speed. If you just care to play back DVDs from other regions there are other solutions than an RPC-1 firmware (and all those firmwares are ALWAYS inofficial, drive manufacturers must make their drives region locked or they violate licensing agreements and could no longer sell their drives). And now back to topic please.. what other burners are there that can rip at higher speeds? __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

29th March 2003, 12:48	#19 \| Link
Mr Alien Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 4	Ricoh MP5125A The Ricoh MP5125A will read encrypted DVD's faster than 2X, though it never gets near the 8x rating on the box (probably single layer rate). It does however get up to between 3.2x-3.5x on average, which reads a disk in about ~23 minutes. It can also burn +RW disks at 2.4x which is handy. But it's CD writing speed of 12x and 10x for the RW's is a little to slow (I've never used it for CD burning, I use my Lite-on 48x, so I can't tell you how well (quality) it writes them). As for region free, their is an RCP-1 patched bios available from The Firmware Page. For the price, it's not a bad drive. Last edited by Mr Alien; 29th March 2003 at 12:52.