Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 25th January 2013, 18:35   #17201  |  Link
myworldoftech
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
If no hardware acceleration method is used like CUVID or DXVA, would that free up more of the GPU processing power and allow it to better handle JINC scaling?

Does it make sense to use the GPU as a pure scaler with the CPU handling whatever else is needed to decode?

Could JINC or better scaling be handle in software (by processor) to do away with needing a powerful GPU? What kind of processor would be needed to do that?
myworldoftech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2013, 19:34   #17202  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 6,224
Quote:
Does it make sense to use the GPU as a pure scaler with the CPU handling whatever else is needed to decode?
that's what madvr does

Quote:
Could JINC or better scaling be handle in software (by processor) to do away with needing a powerful GPU? What kind of processor would be needed to do that?
could yes but find a better upscailing program frist

Quote:
If no hardware acceleration method is used like CUVID or DXVA, would that free up more of the GPU processing power and allow it to better handle JINC scaling?
for me yes but not allways dxva native takes some vram but is pretty fast...
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2013, 20:04   #17203  |  Link
Dodgexander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinz View Post
I found a workaround for the "stuck window" problem, with which I can live:

I deactivated in System - Visual Effects the animation for minimizing and maximizing of windows (don't exactly know how it's called in the english Win7 Version). Now I don't have stuck windows anymore and I can live without this animation and still use rest of Aero.

Here is the Setting that I deactivated:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/disable-the-maximize-minimize-windows-animation-in-windows-7/
Thanks, ill try it out!

Anyone with this problem, are we all amd users? I own a 6870 personally.

Sent from my Blade S using Tapatalk 2
Dodgexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th January 2013, 20:22   #17204  |  Link
Prinz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 83
pankov is NVIDIA User if his Signature is correct. That is the reason I think it's a OS bug.
Prinz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 00:23   #17205  |  Link
Luv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 63
XP32
Zoomplayer 5.02
HD4770
Catalyst 12.4

Madshi,excellent build.The rendering times with Spline 4 taps have gone down dramatically.No frame drops,no glitches anymore.Quite a huge difference compared to 85.7,I must say.
Is 85.8 heavily optimized? You mentioned a change in madvr's logic...Please keep it this way because the performance increase is really tangible.
THANK YOU !
Luv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 01:31   #17206  |  Link
Niyawa
Registered User
 
Niyawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Neverland, Brazil
Posts: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Wait. My answer was a reply to your question about what that "deviation" information in the OSD means. 24p@60Hz is a different topic. The simple problem with 24p@60Hz is that 60 is not a simple mulitply of 24, which means that every renderer out there today shows a 3:2 motion judder. Basically frame A is shown for 2 vsync periods, then frame A+1 is shown for 3 vsync periods, then frame A+2 for 2 vsyncs, frame A+3 for 3 vsyncs, etc. This uneven frame repeat pattern results in that motion isn't perfectly smooth.
Okay now I got it, no wonder I was confused. Thanks again.
__________________
madVR scaling algorithms chart - based on performance x quality | KCP - A (cute) quality-oriented codec pack
Niyawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 12:50   #17207  |  Link
namaiki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinz View Post
I found a workaround for the "stuck window" problem, with which I can live:

I deactivated in System - Visual Effects the animation for minimizing and maximizing of windows (don't exactly know how it's called in the english Win7 Version). Now I don't have stuck windows anymore and I can live without this animation and still use rest of Aero.

Here is the Setting that I deactivated:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/disable-the-maximize-minimize-windows-animation-in-windows-7/
In madVR settings you could probably, enable 'disable Aero while in fullscreen mode' option instead of disabling that globally. I experienced the same thing on my computer in madVR.

Last edited by namaiki; 26th January 2013 at 12:53.
namaiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 14:04   #17208  |  Link
pie1394
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I don't see why there would be a ghost image effect. Frame blending is used all the time to bring old NTSC 60i TV series to PAL 50i TV and it's not "visible" during motion. Of course when using it to reduce the fps, it reduces quality by making everything quite a bit softer. But that problem shouldn't apply when increasing fps significantly. I expect a proper 24 -> 60 solution to look almost identical to true 24 -> 24 playback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Frame blending isn't perfect but is pretty damn good.

For example, broadcasting US sports in the UK requires the 1080i/30 (or 720p/60) video being converted to 1080i/25 but even those looking for this conversion probably wouldn't notice.

As a complete side note, ideally they'd use high-speed cameras (which they have already) to shoot at 300/600 fps, then they can downsample to both 50 fps and 60 fps without any frame trickery. This'd mean there's two "master signals" though and would probably be rather complicated to configure.
I would like to see how it performs when this method is implemented in madVR.

The regular 3:2 repeated frame method for 23.976 fps (anime contents) to 60 fps has an issue on my interlaced PDP TV (Hitachi P42A01A). It could show some content's vertical flicks with object's motion in the vertical direction. The video output mode is set to 1920x1080i60.

I seldom use 1920x1080p60 mode since it degrades the visual quality on this TV --- obviously anti-flicking filter is applied.

If I set the video signal to 1920x1080p23 (23.976 fps), the issue is gone. Since this TV's panel driving is still 1024x1080i60 for 1920x1080p24 input signal, I guess it does some tricks to prevent 24 fps content's presentation from showing such flicks --- without any visual quality degradation.
pie1394 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 14:35   #17209  |  Link
yahyoh
Registered User
 
yahyoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not sure, but this might have to do with the speed of your PC. Are you using DXVA or CUVID decoding? Try software decoding. Or try using Bilinear for everything, just to check if that makes the problem go away.



Thanks man i changed hardware acceleration setting in lav filters to
DXVA2(copy back ) and now every thing 100% working

cuz i'm not using Nvidia GPU to use CUVID

Last edited by yahyoh; 26th January 2013 at 14:37.
yahyoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 15:24   #17210  |  Link
Dodgexander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 157
Does anyone know how to calibrate correctly Black to Black and White to White levels?

I have a couple of test patterns, but Madvr info is detecting the range as "limited" and not "full" like it should be, so I cannot calibrate.
Dodgexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 15:38   #17211  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,899
Test patterns for Black and White Level always are marked as Limited Range, because thats whats the majority of all consumer video is. Wouldn't make sense to calibrate against something else, would it?
The only difference there is that the test pattern then contain BTB and WTW values, so you can calibrate your playback chain that you see 16-235, and not BTB/WTW.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 15:46   #17212  |  Link
Dodgexander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Test patterns for Black and White Level always are marked as Limited Range, because thats whats the majority of all consumer video is. Wouldn't make sense to calibrate against something else, would it?
The only difference there is that the test pattern then contain BTB and WTW values, so you can calibrate your playback chain that you see 16-235, and not BTB/WTW.
Thanks Nev, so what would happen if I were to playback a video that had full range? Would it be detected? Do you know of a sample I can test that with?
Dodgexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 15:48   #17213  |  Link
6233638
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
Does anyone know how to calibrate correctly Black to Black and White to White levels?

I have a couple of test patterns, but Madvr info is detecting the range as "limited" and not "full" like it should be, so I cannot calibrate.
If you have a flat panel or a digital projector, there's no need for BTB or WTW patterns.

Brightness: Disable any auto contrast options. Put up an all-black pattern and adjust the brightness control until the display stops getting any darker. You have found the correct setting when +1 brightness will visibly brighten the screen, and -1 will not go any darker.

Contrast can really be set wherever you like. Modern displays shouldn't clip highlights when adjusting the contrast control, and blooming is no longer a concern. I recommend the default position or lower. (often 90/100 on LCDs)
6233638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 17:57   #17214  |  Link
jkauff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 440
Sorry for the newb question, but I can't get the madVR control panel to launch on my machine in any player. I always get a message along the lines of "Make sure your firewall isn't blocking madVR". I'm on Win 7 64 bit using mostly MPC-HC 32-bit and Zoom Player MAX. I've registered madVR.ax as Admin, but Windows just can't find the file. Is there a hot key combination to open the control panel?
jkauff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 19:32   #17215  |  Link
Dodgexander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Sorry for the newb question, but I can't get the madVR control panel to launch on my machine in any player. I always get a message along the lines of "Make sure your firewall isn't blocking madVR". I'm on Win 7 64 bit using mostly MPC-HC 32-bit and Zoom Player MAX. I've registered madVR.ax as Admin, but Windows just can't find the file. Is there a hot key combination to open the control panel?
It appears upon playback in your system tray (near time, bottom right)

Don't think you can access outside of playback
Dodgexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 20:36   #17216  |  Link
Pat357
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyawa View Post
Thanks for the wonderful answer. I better bookmark this so I won't forget where to look up when I want more details. Let's just see if I got this. Basically the problem with 24p@60Hz is that you need to find a way to make the Video and Audio clock to stay sync without the need of repeated or dropped frames. That's hard to do with ReClock because of the way it works (by changing not only the refresh rate, but the video fps as well). I may have got it wrong since this is all news to me but for now that's enough, thanks again.
Start reading the Reclock documentation about what kind of content there is and how things work.
I'd recommend it as a good starter.
The best way to build up some knowledge is reading a lot about it
And let Google be your friend !
Pat357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 21:13   #17217  |  Link
Pat357
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugmen0t View Post
This wasn't a request but a question about concept. What do we want to know? What should the OSD show?
I just thought about that since i was under the impression you mostly left the repeat stats for mismatching frame- and refreshrates out because of counting all repeats doesn't make much sense. So the question is what does make sense for the future?
I agree that this would be the info we want to know and it's IMHO a good way to start : I still would like to know about dropped/repeated frames when I'm watching 24p content on my 48Hz monitor.
Of course, this was the ""easy" part : now some indication of all kinds of "judder" for the OSD ..

Last edited by Pat357; 26th January 2013 at 22:00.
Pat357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 22:21   #17218  |  Link
Dodgexander
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 157
For those that have the problem with the fading/stuck windows. Has anyone noticed this happen even more with recent releases?

I upgraded to the latest Madvr and Lav, and now the stuck windows happen even more! Sometimes my other monitor goes completely black even.

*Edit I am also receiving a lot of crashes in MPC-BE related to madvr. Anyone had similar?

Last edited by Dodgexander; 26th January 2013 at 22:24.
Dodgexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 22:55   #17219  |  Link
Qotscha
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
Anyone had similar?
I have similar problems when using dxva2 decoding. If I open a new file while playing a video in fullscreen exclusive mode on my secondary display, I often get a black screen or a MPC HC (or BE) crash. With software decoding everything works flawlessly.
Qotscha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th January 2013, 23:24   #17220  |  Link
Prinz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 83
Don't have that problem, but I use Zoomplayer and only Software-Decoding.
Prinz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:48.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.