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Old 15th February 2013, 09:00   #121  |  Link
Warperus
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Thank you, drmpeg.
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Old 17th February 2013, 19:44   #122  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xooyoozoo View Post
Long story short is that 'state-of-the-art' objective metrics vastly underestimate HEVC, and with 1080p material (class B), HEVC can produce the same subjective quality for 1/3 of H264's filesize:

There was also a more cursory subjective test last year on 4K clips. On some of clips, HEVC managed the same quality at 25% of H264's bitrate!

Wooow, that sounds nice .

Can't wait for x265 then .

@ x264 developers:

Can you please stop working on x264 and put all your workforce into x265 (or whatever you wanna call it) from now on ?

If what "xooyoozoo" wrote is true, then an open source H.265 encoder can't come soon enough IMHO .

PS:

By the way: why are so many users here still referring to "HEVC"? It's officialy called "H.265" now, isn't it?
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Old 17th February 2013, 19:50   #123  |  Link
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By the way: why are so many users here still referring to "HEVC"? It's officialy called "H.265" now, isn't it?
ISO/IEC name is still (MPEG-H) HEVC, H.265 is the ITU-T's name for it, only given to it lately (before that it was marked as ITU-T H.HEVC there).

Just like (MPEG-4) AVC is the ISO/IEC name for what is called H.264 over at the ITU-T.
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Old 17th February 2013, 20:47   #124  |  Link
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Ah, okay, thanks .

By the way: would be interesting to know if Daala and/or VP9 will be able to reduce the bitrate as much as H.265 (according to the figures posted by "xooyoozoo") .

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Old 17th February 2013, 23:06   #125  |  Link
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H.HEVC might have been a working name like H.26L.
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Old 18th February 2013, 00:20   #126  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Biggiesized View Post
H.HEVC might have been a working name like H.26L.
It was indeed. Since numbers are usually only given relatively close to finalization of the specification (although yes, it still isn't finished).

In any case, my point was that both HEVC and H.265 are valid names for the format (I generally will be calling it HEVC because that's how I've been calling it for the past XY months, and the fact that it gained another nickname isn't going to change much of that habit)
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Old 18th February 2013, 16:42   #127  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jq963152 View Post

Can't wait for x265 then .
https://code.google.com/p/x265/

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Originally Posted by jq963152 View Post
@ x264 developers:

Can you please stop working on x264 and put all your workforce into x265 (or whatever you wanna call it) from now on ?
What with interlace? And how fast your CPU is clocked? 12GHz?
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Old 18th February 2013, 17:07   #128  |  Link
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https://code.google.com/p/x265/



What with interlace? And how fast your CPU is clocked? 12GHz?
AFAIK that isn't "real" x265 though. The developer isn't part of the x264 team like Dark Shikari, akupenguin et al. I wonder what will DS et al call their implementation of HEVC now?
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:00   #129  |  Link
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AFAIK that isn't "real" x265 though. The developer isn't part of the x264 team like Dark Shikari, akupenguin et al. I wonder what will DS et al call their implementation of HEVC now?
Are you really sure that x264 team will do a HEVC encoder ?
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Old 18th February 2013, 18:27   #130  |  Link
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Are you really sure that x264 team will do a HEVC encoder ?
Nope I'm not sure at all. AFAIK DS has not commented on the issue. I'm just saying that the x265 linked is not done by the x264 developers.
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Old 18th February 2013, 22:40   #131  |  Link
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anyway the work for x264 is incredible ... perhaps time for other dev to work to x265.
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Old 19th February 2013, 01:12   #132  |  Link
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Originally Posted by jq963152 View Post
@ x264 developers:

Can you please stop working on x264 and put all your workforce into x265 (or whatever you wanna call it) from now on ?
What with interlace?

What do you mean with "What with interlace?"?

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Originally Posted by pandy View Post
And how fast your CPU is clocked? 12GHz?



So you're saying a 12 GHz CPU is needed to decode H.265 ?

Also: the sooner the adoption of H.265 starts, the more likely it would be that there would be dedicated hardware to decode H.265. So a CPU might not even be necessary if NVIDIA or AMD for example would develop some VPUs capable of decoding H.265 .

Seriously, just look at those numbers posted by "xooyoozoo":

Quote:
Originally Posted by xooyoozoo View Post
Long story short is that 'state-of-the-art' objective metrics vastly underestimate HEVC, and with 1080p material (class B), HEVC can produce the same subjective quality for 1/3 of H264's filesize:

There was also a more cursory subjective test last year on 4K clips. On some of clips, HEVC managed the same quality at 25% of H264's bitrate!

They sound amazing IMHO. So why not screw H.264 from now on and go for H.265 instead ?
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Old 19th February 2013, 08:16   #133  |  Link
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Hype victim.

There are very few people willing to spend a week on a movie just to be a "pioneer" using a bleeding edge technology, not understanding that most consumers and casual users will demand a conversion being faster than playing time.

Give the developers the time they need to really understand the concepts, even before they start implementing half-baked code. A good software project is started in theory, and it is "almost done" (regarding its definition) before the first line of code starts. The less you know where you go, the more often you have to go back because you took a wrong turn.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:31   #134  |  Link
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Not to mention, afaik, it was over 12months after version 1 of H.264 before the first commit of x264. And x264 was not fast initially.

Have we even got a final draft of HEVC yet?
I guess people these days are less patient.
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Old 19th February 2013, 10:52   #135  |  Link
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They never had the joy of manually tweaking DivX 3.11α SBC parameters in Nandub until there were no "shit frames" left...
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Old 19th February 2013, 13:20   #136  |  Link
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What do you mean with "What with interlace?"?




H.265 is designed for progressive video - mostly those with higher resolution in mind (4k and 8k)

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So you're saying a 12 GHz CPU is needed to decode H.265 ?
Today probably yes especially for 4k content (8 k for sure) - count H.265 as 4 - 16 times more demanding than H.264 for CPU speed.

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Originally Posted by jq963152 View Post
Also: the sooner the adoption of H.265 starts, the more likely it would be that there would be dedicated hardware to decode H.265. So a CPU might not even be necessary if NVIDIA or AMD for example would develop some VPUs capable of decoding H.265 .

Seriously, just look at those numbers posted by "xooyoozoo":




They sound amazing IMHO. So why not screw H.264 from now on and go for H.265 instead ?
But why - is see no point to go for H.265 for HD - it have sense for Ultra HD however until moderate priced displays for 4k will be not present then i don't see any gain for H.265 over H.264.

Last edited by Guest; 19th February 2013 at 14:39. Reason: 6
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Old 19th February 2013, 16:47   #137  |  Link
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H.265 is designed for progressive video - mostly those with higher resolution in mind (4k and 8k)

So H.265 does not support interlacing?

That would be awesome .

Interlacing is a very evil thing IMHO and should have been abandoned a long time ago.

So, if H.265 drops interlacing support, then this actually is very much appreciated .


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Originally Posted by pandy View Post
But why - is see no point to go for H.265 for HD - it have sense for Ultra HD however until moderate priced displays for 4k will be not present then i don't see any gain for H.265 over H.264.

If H.265 is able to reduce bitrates as much as the post from "xooyoozoo" suggests, then this alone is a huge gain over H.264, don't you think ?
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Old 19th February 2013, 17:04   #138  |  Link
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So H.265 does not support interlacing?

That would be awesome .

Interlacing is a very evil thing IMHO and should have been abandoned a long time ago.

So, if H.265 drops interlacing support, then this actually is very much appreciated .
They can drop it as long as we get high frame rates.

Recently there's a disturbing trend of some DVDs coming out with 30p content. In this case, I actually prefer 30i as I can deinterlace it with QTGMC to get nice 60p content. With 30p, the best I can do is to double the framerate with Interframe, and the results are not as good as deinterlacing 30i with QTGMC.
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Old 19th February 2013, 18:16   #139  |  Link
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While that is a very good sentiment, much content is still shot and broadcast interlaced.

Then simply stop recording and broadcasting interlaced and finally start recording and broadcasting progressive only.

Should have been done a long time ago IMHO .
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Old 19th February 2013, 19:04   #140  |  Link
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H.265 still supports flagging content as interlaced - it just doesn't have any interlaced tools like PAFF or MBAFF anymore AFAIK.
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