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Old 23rd September 2013, 20:13   #20101  |  Link
michkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
What should I write to "list all display modes madVR may switch to" field if I have a generic 17" LCD monitor that supports 60, 70, 72, 75 Hz frequencies?
Probably none. 72hz should be enough, since it's a multiple of 24fps in which most movies are shot. Might be better to set your screen to 72hz for desktop too, so you don't have to switch back and forth. It also depends on your results with SmoothMotion enabled. Keep in mind that you should use your LCD's native resolution and use madVR for scaling for best quality, even if you get lower refresh rate at native resolution.

I would suggest you try madVR in native resolution with highest possible refresh rate and SmoothMotion enabled or go for 72hz.

If you really need to list different modes it goes like that:
Code:
768p72, 768p75
if you have 1024x768@72hz and 1024x768@75hz available. You list the vertical resolution. It's usually safe to assume your PC screen only accepts progressive signal, hence the p.
Also madVR won't switch to a resolution/refresh rate unavailable to Windows.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 20:24   #20102  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
I have a generic 17" LCD monitor that supports 60, 70, 72, 75 Hz frequencies
You should make sure that the monitor is not lying to you, and is not dropping/repeating frames when you request these refresh rates. I have yet to see a "generic 17" LCD monitor" that actually supports anything other than 60Hz. If you play a movie at 72Hz and it doesn't look smooth, your monitor is probably lying to you.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 20:45   #20103  |  Link
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michkrol
Thanks for the answer. I already have my monitor set to 72 Hz. But I see no difference in comparison to 60 Hz of the "preset mode". As long as I remember I have read once that all of these LCD frequencies aren't "fair", the frequency of a LCD monitor is always 60 Hz and all other frequencies are just emulated. But I may be wrong.
I believe native resolution for 17" LCD is 1280x1024. If I don't use 25-to-24 fps conversion by ReClock, should I type
Code:
1024p75
there? Actually, I'm going to use this conversion, but I'd like to understand this madVR feature.
What about a generic CRT TV? I plan to connect it finally to my videocard. Will the following values be valid here:
Code:
600p50,600p60
Or are they wrong? Or are there some other valid ones?

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Quote:
You should make sure that the monitor is not lying to you, and is not dropping/repeating frames when you request these refresh rates. I have yet to see a "generic 17" LCD monitor" that actually supports anything other than 60Hz.
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

Quote:
If you play a movie at 72Hz and it doesn't look smooth
That's the question. It looks smooth enough for me, but maybe it may be a bit more smooth? Let's consider my monitor is lying to me. Then? Should I set it to "fair" 60 Hz and leave the field empty? Or should I type:
Code:
1024p60
?

What about smooth motion - should I enable it anyway?
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Old 23rd September 2013, 21:34   #20104  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
I already have my monitor set to 72 Hz. But I see no difference in comparison to 60 Hz of the "preset mode". As long as I remember I have read once that all of these LCD frequencies aren't "fair", the frequency of a LCD monitor is always 60 Hz and all other frequencies are just emulated. But I may be wrong.
It really depends on the LCD but many LCDs do work at other refresh rates, my 30" can do 72Hz if I create a custom resolution. Without creating a custom resolution it only claims to support 60, MadVR cannot switch to a resolution@refresh rate if it isn't available in Windows. The same is true of my 120Hz monitors, they only claim to support 60 but run at anything up to 120+ Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
I believe native resolution for 17" LCD is 1280x1024. If I don't use 25-to-24 fps conversion by ReClock, should I type
I don't think you can say 'for 17" LCD' as I am sure there are 17" LCDs with different native resolutions but that does sound reasonable for a 4:3 17" LCD. This monitor is at least a few years old I assume?

If you don't use reclock (or setup precisely timed custom refresh rates) I don't think you should use MadVR's refresh rate changer. All the changer does is change between different resolutions or refresh rates as they are defined in Windows. You can get the same effect my manually changing the resolution or refresh rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
That's the question. It looks smooth enough for me, but maybe it may be a bit more smooth? Let's consider my monitor is lying to me. Then? Should I set it to "fair" 60 Hz and leave the field empty? Or should I type:

What about smooth motion - should I enable it anyway?
I think you should leave the resolution & refresh rate changer blank in MadVR and turn on smooth motion if your GPU is fast enough. No reclock needed, no dropped or repeated frames, no judder, no blinking monitors as the refresh rate changes: smooth motion works very well for me. I don't use it on my 120Hz screens though as they don't have visible judder without it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
I would suggest you try madVR in native resolution with highest possible refresh rate and SmoothMotion enabled or go for 72hz.
Agree, but no need for the 72 (it should really be as close to 71.928 Hz as you can get, if not using Reclock).

Last edited by Asmodian; 23rd September 2013 at 21:42.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 22:24   #20105  |  Link
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Yes, my monitor is quiet old... very old, to be precise.
I use ReClock. So I believe it's important to define if 72 Hz is fair or not. Cause if ReClock will be guided by nominal 72 Hz and there will be 60 Hz actually it won't do its job good, right?
Another question that is still open is about CRT TV. If it supports 50 Hz and 60 Hz, there will be, as I undestand, two options for PAL video:
  1. To specify "600p50,600p60" and not to use 25fps-to-24fps ReClock conversion.
  2. To leave the field blank and to use 25fps-to-24fps ReClock conversion.
What to select?
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Old 24th September 2013, 02:07   #20106  |  Link
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Reclock detects the current monitor refresh rate so 72 Hz is fine if your monitor doesn't do anything weird when at 72 Hz, only you can tell if it does or not.

I am not sure what this is asking "Cause if ReClock will be guided by nominal 72 Hz and there will be 60 Hz actually it won't do its job good, right?".

1 or 2 is a matter of taste, do you want to slow down PAL or use refresh rate changing? There really is no correct answer for PAL, some content has been sped up so slowing it down could be good but some content was recorded at 25 fps so maybe you do not want to slow it down. Neither 25 or 24 go into 60 well though so maybe use option 1 and keep smooth motion on for 24 fps content. You could also try 48fps (600p48,600p50,600p60) if your TV supports it.

Does smooth motion look smooth to you? On my screens smooth motion works well enough I leave it on the "if judder" setting and keep every screen at the fastest Hz it supports. Recently I even stopped using Reclock without noticing the loss (I couldn't get it to work in Windows 8.1).
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Old 24th September 2013, 04:40   #20107  |  Link
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http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

if it doesn't look stuttery at 72Hz, your monitor is fine.

if it does, 60Hz + SmoothMotion is the best you can do.
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Old 24th September 2013, 09:17   #20108  |  Link
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Is there any known advantages of 48hz over 72hz or vice versa?

It would be nice if the ufo test could be set to output 24, 25 and 30 fps at the given refresh rate.
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Old 24th September 2013, 09:46   #20109  |  Link
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Refresh Rate Multitool works great when you wanna ensure that your display doesn't internally resync to 60Hz.
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Old 24th September 2013, 16:49   #20110  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Reclock detects the current monitor refresh rate so 72 Hz is fine if your monitor doesn't do anything weird when at 72 Hz, only you can tell if it does or not.
My monitor seems to support up to 72 Hz. At least when I set it to 72 Hz I can see this value in ReClock properties. When I set it to 75 Hz there is 60 Hz there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I am not sure what this is asking "Cause if ReClock will be guided by nominal 72 Hz and there will be 60 Hz actually it won't do its job good, right?".
I mean ReClock may think that my monitor is at 72 Hz and synchronize the video accordingly; but if the real frequency is 60 Hz the result won't be good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Does smooth motion look smooth to you?
To be honest, I see no difference at all whether I enable this checkbox or not. Tried with 60 Hz and 72 Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates
I tried this link, as well as Refresh Rate Multitool. UFOs move not smooth enough regardless of monitor frequency, even at 60 Hz. All bars blink good enough, even at 75 Hz.
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Old 24th September 2013, 17:35   #20111  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
Here you go - more black bars than you could wish for + logo (matt format and they look like different intensity)! Ugly enough?
Yes - thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
regarding black bars, try the smilebox version of "How the west was won". see here: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/screenshot.php?movieid=742&position=2
That's too weird, even for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
2013 "Oz the Great and Powerful" starts in 4:3 pillar-boxed and then expands to 16:9, this could be considered as "odd" black bars, couldn't it?
Sounds good. Does it just snap to the other AR from one frame to the next? If so, I have samples for this already. Or is it a smooth transition? That I don't have yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Has anyone experienced the video freezing yet the audio continuing? I skipped to the last closing chapter and after it finished and started playing the next file but the picture was frozen and MPC-BE was unresponsive. I couldn't minimize or bring up any menus, it wasn't until I hit CTRL-Alt-Delete and got task manager up that MPC-BE then displayed everything properly. I have no idea at this point where the issue may lie, although perhaps it could be related to another issue I've experienced where the odd subtitle is not being refreshed on screen as well..
Have you tried creating a madVR freeze report?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Oh wait, mVR is completely unable to detect the refresh rate
madVR relies on the refresh rate detection. It won't work properly if that fails to work. Must be a problem with the GPU drivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulkeeper View Post
2) madvr pc levels (0-255)

is it normal that i don't get the BTB(0-16) and WTW(235-255) information using calibration discs because of the luma expansion done by madvr (16-235 -> 0-255)?
Yes! If you absolutely have to have BTB/WTW then you have to set madVR to 16-235.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
In Life of Pi there is a scene where fishes come flying through the black bars.
Sounds like this would make a good sample! I don't have that movie, can you provide a sample?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vulture_g7 View Post
Is it possible that madvr uses the gfx card that's not outputing to monitor for hardware acceleration? Or is it possible to add that feature at some point?
Possible, sure. But not on my to do list, at least not for any time soon. Maybe some time later. One problem is that when using multiple GPUs I'd have to read back the rendered image and copy it to the other GPU. That transfer would run through the PCIe bus and some GPUs are pretty slow reading image data from GPU to CPU RAM over the PCIe bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psousa View Post
1) on madVR options should i change RGB levels for TV (16-235) or to PC (o-255)?
2) on LAV video configuration should i change RGB levels for TV or PC?
I recommend to set GPU and madVR to 0-255, if your G20 supports full range input. Leave LAV Video at default settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bejita7 View Post
Ah, so that's it. Indeed, when I play it without xy-vsfilter it's Y410 10-bit. Thanks for explanation.
You can use XySubFilter instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagorian View Post
I'm using MPC-HC and madVR to play movies on my 133" screen. I'm seeing some very faint border issues inside the picture frame, it seems like there's some kind of faint inner frame just inside the madVR window, it seems to start exactly two pixels from the bottom of the screen where there's a distinct line/border (haven't verified the pixel count at the other side borders). When viewed from a far it seems like there's slight bending/blurring of the picture frames inside the actual frames. This happens with different aspect ratios and I can't see how my projector would cause this.
Does the same issue occur when using EVR or VMR? How about when playing the video through your computer monitor instead of your projector?

Quote:
Originally Posted by uQuad View Post
Couldnt find the answer via google so heres the question. When smooth motion is activated i get the smoothed video, its better than anything i tried and I tried a few methods. Motion is constant, not like in all others skippy. But what botters me is how the picture is i dont know.. doubled? U can see it very clearly on the edges of objects, and im not talking about 24/25/30 frame doubling which is normal, i get that stuff. I see it even on true 60 fps video. Theres just that little afterimage, very clear ghosting. I tried to use different upscalers and all the other setting that have impact on picture in madvr but with no luck. Any ideas, anyone has seen what im talking about? I took some printscreens of my 60fps recorded blur test, those are when 'SM' is on and off of course.
For true 60fps video I wouldn't recommend to enable smooth motion FRC. For 24/25fps some people claim they can see ghosting, others can't. Personally, I don't see any ghosting on my LCD monitor with smooth motion FRC turned on, when playing back 24/25fps content. I'm not sure why some people see it. Either you have "faster" eyes. Or maybe your display works differently to mine. Maybe your display is "better", showing the ghosting while mine hides it. Or maybe your display is worse, for some reason making the ghosting stand out more. Does your display have a scanning backlight?

In any case, there's not much I can do here. Smooth motion FRC works by frame blending. And as you reported yourself, it works well enough it making motion smooth. I can't really improve it, unless I totally change the algorithm to not use frame blending. But then you could switch to SVP right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagorian View Post
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0gfCipWyN13MVRlUUVScS1uUXc/edit?usp=sharing

I noticed the same thing happening on my desktop with madVR, it was just harder to notice since the screen is a lot smaller, 24" vs 133". The above is a screenshot (print screen) with a portion of the lower border (resized to 500%).
This looks like ringing. Try activating the anti-ringing filter in the madVR settings, if your GPU is fast enough for that. Of course it's also possible that the ringing is already baked into the source, then there's no way to remove it, unless you use some avisynth scripts for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moffy View Post
Thanks nevcairiel. I have also looked at the code from xy_subfilter_consumer. I managed to insert some code into LAVVideo e.g.

[...]

after much trial and error. When I had the xy_subfilter_consumer.dll loaded, it was able to discover the interface. If there are any mistakes in the above code please let me know.
Looks alright to me on a quick check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
im occasionally hearing of problems of stuttering from people when madvr switches their display to 23.976hz.
Does anyone know what is causing this or what to suggest to those with this problem?
That's like asking "my car doesn't start, what could be the reason?". There's a long list of possible reasons, like empty battery, no fuel, broken motor, broken fuel pump etc etc.

Ask specific questions, then you'll get a proper answer. E.g. if you have a case of stuttering, then look at the OSD to see if any queues are empty, if the refresh rate is correct or not etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastrboy View Post
Have a question about usage/scaling:
If I set the following settings in Madvr, switch to mathing display mode - when media player goes fullscreen, restore original mode - when media player leaves fullscreen, and the list of display modes to 720p60,1080p60 only.
Will madvr then play back 720p content at 720p resolution and 1080p content at 1080p resolution, while still upscaling everything below 720p to 720p?
madVR will then switch to 1080p60 for 1080p/i content (of any framerate), and to 720p60 for SD and 720p/i content (of any framerate). Whether madVR will upscale or not depends on the settings of the media player. E.g. in MPC-HC there are multiple zoom settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phneutral View Post
I tried smooth motion. Unfortunately, it gives more of a slight constant "vibration" in the video's.
Have you been testing this in fullscreen exclusive mode? Does the madVR OSD (Ctrl+J) report any frame drops, repeats or presentation glitches when you get that vibration? Are all the queues more or less full?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
I have my main screen at 75 Hz, seems the smooth motion doesn't work properly at this rate.
What makes you say that? Any hints of problems in the madVR OSD? Dropped frames? Empty queues? Have you been using FSE mode? Maybe your display doesn't handle 75Hz properly, but converts it internally to 60Hz by dropping some frames? Just guessing, of course. Can't do anything else, due to the lack of detailed information.
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Old 24th September 2013, 18:02   #20112  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Sounds good. Does it just snap to the other AR from one frame to the next? If so, I have samples for this already. Or is it a smooth transition? That I don't have yet.
It slides open, like opening a curtain.
I'll see if i can make a sample, but it might be a while, going on vacation soon.
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Old 24th September 2013, 20:14   #20113  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
I mean ReClock may think that my monitor is at 72 Hz and synchronize the video accordingly; but if the real frequency is 60 Hz the result won't be good.
I do not think this is a worry, especially given the results at 75 (I don't think your monitor really supports 75). It looks like ReClock gets it right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
To be honest, I see no difference at all whether I enable this checkbox or not. Tried with 60 Hz and 72 Hz.
This is a good thing, DO NOT try to become sensitive the this "judder" we talk about and you do not need to worry. Keep everything at it's default refresh rate and turn smooth motion on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
I tried this link, as well as Refresh Rate Multitool. UFOs move not smooth enough regardless of monitor frequency, even at 60 Hz. All bars blink good enough, even at 75 Hz.
With an old LCD it might not be fast enough to get a perfect picture. By "All bars blink good enough" are you looking at the frame skipping test? That is the test I would use to make sure my screen was running at the set refresh rate. Is 75 really running at 75? It looks like your system resets to 60 if you try to set 75.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Is there any known advantages of 48hz over 72hz or vice versa?
Not for watching video (unless using a refresh rate other than 24 fps, then the faster the better of course) but I really notice the drop from 60 or 72 to 48 Hz in the rest of Windows, the desktop, mouse movement, etc.
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Old 24th September 2013, 20:36   #20114  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
By "All bars blink good enough" are you looking at the frame skipping test?
No, it was about Refresh Rate Multitool.
I can't pass the test you gave link to: "poor performance" (isn't C2D 6400 @ 3.33 MHz enough? ).
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Old 24th September 2013, 20:36   #20115  |  Link
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madVR relies on the refresh rate detection. It won't work properly if that fails to work. Must be a problem with the GPU drivers.
OK, thanks for the reply. I'll whine to nvidia's tech support as they apparently seem to care for both madVR and XP
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Old 24th September 2013, 21:24   #20116  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
It slides open, like opening a curtain.
I'll see if i can make a sample, but it might be a while, going on vacation soon.
A sample would be nice, but it isn't urgent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
OK, thanks for the reply. I'll whine to nvidia's tech support as they apparently seem to care for both madVR and XP
They do? Well, their developer support does not seem to. I've posted a bug report many many months ago (CUDA related) and although they've reproduced the bug ages ago, they haven't done anything about it yet, and even stopped replying...
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Old 24th September 2013, 21:38   #20117  |  Link
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Originally Posted by GCRaistlin View Post
No, it was about Refresh Rate Multitool.
I can't pass the test you gave link to: "poor performance" (isn't C2D 6400 @ 3.33 MHz enough? ).
I can pass that test on an old E8400 @ 3.0 Ghz with an ATI Radeon HD 2400 I have at work, using Chrome as the browser. Something may be wrong with your system but as far as MadVR goes I think you will be better off leaving the resolution and refresh rate fields blank.

edit: Isn't the C2D E6400 a 2.13 GHz chip? Nice overclock. That chip is from Q3 2006 so it might be showing its age now. My E8400 is probably faster, and I am always mad at this system for being so slow.

Last edited by Asmodian; 24th September 2013 at 21:51.
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Old 24th September 2013, 21:43   #20118  |  Link
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I can pass that test on an old E8400 @ 3.0 Ghz with an ATI Radeon HD 2400 I have at work, using Chrome as the browser
E8400 should be a lot faster than my poor old E6400, even overclocked. Is a videocard of any importance for this test? Mine is 8800GT.
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Old 24th September 2013, 22:03   #20119  |  Link
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I tried to play a DVD which videostream is 29.970 fps (as ReClock reports). List of display modes is
Code:
1280x1024p60, 1280x1024p70, 1280x1024p72, 1280x1024p75
I suppose the best frequency for 29.970 fps is 60 Hz, but madVR changes to 72 Hz. So ReClock stays yellow. When I manually change to 60 Hz it becomes green. What can be done here?
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Old 25th September 2013, 00:01   #20120  |  Link
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They do? Well, their developer support does not seem to. I've posted a bug report many many months ago (CUDA related) and although they've reproduced the bug ages ago, they haven't done anything about it yet, and even stopped replying...
I vividly remember reading about a bug fix in new nvidia drivers having madVR mentioned, that was like 6/9 months ago IIRC.

Anyway, all VR's are broken with the GTX660 XP drivers so either they give up on XP altogether or they fix them. Simple enough as around 50% of the computers in the world still run this caveman OS and they own the XP market as AMD gave up a while ago.
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