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Old 11th June 2007, 15:01   #161  |  Link
Sagittaire
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I have problem ... ???

Quote:
D:\Mes dossiers\Codec\HDDVD\eac3to>eac3to.exe azerty.eac3 azerty.wav
E-AC3, 5.1 channels, 0:00:30, 1536kbit/s, 48khz
Muxing eac3 file to raw. Please wait...
Getting "Dump" instance failed
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Le Sagittaire ... ;-)

1- Ateme AVC or x264
2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime
3- XviD, DivX or WMV9
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Old 11th June 2007, 15:21   #162  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Sagittaire View Post
I have problem ... ???
You need to register the dump filter which ships with GraphEdit. Use "regsvr32 dump.ax".
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Old 11th June 2007, 16:13   #163  |  Link
xkodi
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Actually some HD-DVD tracks are MLP and not TrueHD. So it's definitely possible to mux MLP into EVOB. I think EvoDemux just doesn't do it properly, sadly...
very conclusive test, at least in my opinion:

1) 'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus track, TrueHD size:

633 042 317 bytes

2) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV, size: 660 487 112 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

358 807 274 bytes

3) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV and then converted to 24bit using Wavewizard v0.54b,
now the least significant bits are zeroes checked with hexeditor, size: 990 730 628 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

362 789 876 bytes

4) decompressed using eac3to to 24bit WAV file, size: 990 730 628 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

649 693 162 bytes

so 2) and 3) shows that if the source WAV file is not real 24bit, but 16bit padded to 24bit with zeroes
for least significant bits MLP compression is enough intelligent and that doesn't significantly increase
the size of the compressed file and that plus 3) and 4) clearly shows that the source WAV file for the
'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus TrueHD track should be real 24bit.

p.s. soon i will do the same test for Vendetta TrueHD track.

Last edited by xkodi; 11th June 2007 at 16:16.
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Old 11th June 2007, 18:06   #164  |  Link
Rectal Prolapse
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xkodi: Well, I'm going by the reported bitdepth from the studios and hidef reviewers - although they aren't always reliable.

Perhaps the only thing we can do is ask the Insiders on AVSForum.com.

Good luck with your tests!
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Old 11th June 2007, 18:20   #165  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
very conclusive test, at least in my opinion
So you got your MLPs successfully packages into EVO now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
1) 'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus track, TrueHD size:

633 042 317 bytes

2) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV, size: 660 487 112 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

358 807 274 bytes

3) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV and then converted to 24bit using Wavewizard v0.54b,
now the least significant bits are zeroes checked with hexeditor, size: 990 730 628 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

362 789 876 bytes

4) decompressed using eac3to to 24bit WAV file, size: 990 730 628 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

649 693 162 bytes
Wait a moment! If the Nero decoder works correctly, step 4 should have given you a WAV file with the least significant 8 bits being zero. And if you reencoded this, you should again end up with only a 360MB of MLP. So this clearly shows that the Nero decoder is either not working properly, or that it's doing some additional processing on the audio data after decoding. Do you agree?

Quote:
2) and 3) shows that if the source WAV file is not real 24bit, but 16bit padded to 24bit with zeroes
for least significant bits MLP compression is enough intelligent and that doesn't significantly increase
the size of the compressed file and that plus 3) and 4) clearly shows that the source WAV file for the
'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus TrueHD track should be real 24bit.
I think the main clue is that the TrueHD file is only barely smaller than the 16bit WAV file. This is a quite clear sign that the TrueHD file has more than 16bit. Otherwise it would have an extremely bad compression ratio, which is very unprobable.

I think we should be able to draw similar conclusions about V for Vendetta: If the TrueHD file is noticably smaller than the 16bit WAV then probably the TrueHD file is only 16bit. If the TrueHD file is however almost as big as the 16bit WAV, then the TrueHD track is probably more than 16bit. Agreed?
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Old 11th June 2007, 20:51   #166  |  Link
xkodi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
So you got your MLPs successfully packages into EVO now?
no, i still can't get MLP stream muxed into EVO, the test file is TrueHD stream taken from real HD-DVD disc and then decompressed with eac3to to 16 and 24 bit WAVs, that are used during the test.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Wait a moment! If the Nero decoder works correctly, step 4 should have given you a WAV file with the least significant 8 bits being zero. And if you reencoded this, you should again end up with only a 360MB of MLP. So this clearly shows that the Nero decoder is either not working properly, or that it's doing some additional processing on the audio data after decoding. Do you agree?
if the PCM source is 16bit and because MLP is lossless, then least significant byte should be zero in the decompressed 24bit WAV, but at the moment i can't test that, because i can't find a way how to mux homemade MLP with known PCM source into EVO.

WinDVD always shows that TrueHD tracks are 24bit, maybe all TrueHD tracks are actually 24bit, no matter from the resolution of the PCM source from which are created, maybe when the PCM source is 16bit, before the MLP compression step, they do some processing to upsample it to 24bit and if that is the case Nero decoder works correctly, because that info is added before the compression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think the main clue is that the TrueHD file is only barely smaller than the 16bit WAV file. This is a quite clear sign that the TrueHD file has more than 16bit. Otherwise it would have an extremely bad compression ratio, which is very unprobable.

I think we should be able to draw similar conclusions about V for Vendetta: If the TrueHD file is noticably smaller than the 16bit WAV then probably the TrueHD file is only 16bit. If the TrueHD file is however almost as big as the 16bit WAV, then the TrueHD track is probably more than 16bit. Agreed?
yes, i completely agree with that, my Vendetta test clearly also supports that conclusion especially in combination with the previous 'Nine Inch Nails' test:

1) 'V for Vendetta' TrueHD track, file size:

1 368 231 154 bytes

2) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV, size: 4 580 550 320 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

1 292 730 780 bytes

3) decompressed using eac3to to 24bit WAV file, size: 6 871 150 160 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

3 315 710 672 bytes

so i want to summarize:

- WinDVD always shows that TrueHD tracks are 24bit, but that doesn't mean that the source PCM from, which the TrueHD track is created, is really 24bit

- some TrueHD tracks seems to be created from real 24bit PCM source like the 'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus TrueHD track, so downsampling them to 16bit is probably not so good idea

- other TrueHD tracks seems to be created from 16bit PCM source like 'V for Vendetta' TrueHD track and so downsampling them to 16bit is probably completely save

so maybe eac3to default behavior when converting to WAV/FLAC should be the following: to check the size of the TrueHD track and according to that automatically to decide if the PCM source is 16bit or 24bit and then choose the correct resolution for the output and of course to be possible manually to select 16bit or 24bit. what do you think about that?

Last edited by xkodi; 11th June 2007 at 21:00.
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Old 11th June 2007, 23:58   #167  |  Link
ABOOABOO
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when i used the gui i get

C:\eac3to>eac3to.exe "C:\eac3to\input.eac3" "C:\Documents and Settings\bLaCk MaM
bA\Desktop\TEST.ac3" -640
E-AC3, 5.1 channels, 1:48:25, 1536kbit/s, 48khz
Muxing eac3 file to raw. Please wait...
The audio decoder didn't accept the input stream.

anybody else got this
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Old 12th June 2007, 00:44   #168  |  Link
The_Keymaker
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Here is the link to the latest version of Eac3toGUI. It is version 0.82 and features all of Madshi's latest options.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9kjvud

Please let me know if you find any problems.

Regards,
The_Keymaker

EDIT: Version 0.80 had a bug which deleted the last two characters on the command line.

Last edited by The_Keymaker; 12th June 2007 at 00:57.
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Old 12th June 2007, 08:54   #169  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
WinDVD always shows that TrueHD tracks are 24bit, maybe all TrueHD tracks are actually 24bit, no matter from the resolution of the PCM source from which are created, maybe when the PCM source is 16bit, before the MLP compression step, they do some processing to upsample it to 24bit and if that is the case Nero decoder works correctly, because that info is added before the compression.
No, there's nothing added before compression. I'm sure of that because of 2 reasons:

(1) Roger Dressler (Dolby) said that if the source was 16bit, the output of a TrueHD decoder should have the least significant 8 bits set to zero.

(2) If there was "real" information added to the source to make it 24bit, the "V for Vendetta" TrueHD file size would have to be much bigger than it really is (see your test 3).

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
yes, i completely agree with that, my Vendetta test clearly also supports that conclusion especially in combination with the previous 'Nine Inch Nails' test:

1) 'V for Vendetta' TrueHD track, file size:

1 368 231 154 bytes

2) decompressed using eac3to to 16bit WAV, size: 4 580 550 320 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

1 292 730 780 bytes

3) decompressed using eac3to to 24bit WAV file, size: 6 871 150 160 bytes
compressed back to MPL using 'SurCode MLP', MLP file size:

3 315 710 672 bytes
Thanks for the test. Good information!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
so i want to summarize:

- WinDVD always shows that TrueHD tracks are 24bit, but that doesn't mean that the source PCM from, which the TrueHD track is created, is really 24bit
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
- some TrueHD tracks seems to be created from real 24bit PCM source like the 'Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You in Time' bonus TrueHD track, so downsampling them to 16bit is probably not so good idea
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkodi View Post
- other TrueHD tracks seems to be created from 16bit PCM source like 'V for Vendetta' TrueHD track and so downsampling them to 16bit is probably completely save
I'd agree only if the decoder behaved correctly and set the 8 least significant bits to zero. But the Nero decoder doesn't do that. I've no idea what exactly the Nero decoder is doing. Maybe it's doing range compression? Or changing volume slightly? Anyway, the output of the Nero decoder is clearly "finer" than 16bit, either due to a bug or due to additional processing on the audio data. So downsampling the decoder output to 16bit sounds like losing information to me.

------

Here comes a polite request to all people who have bought the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray plugin: Could you please contact Nero, report about the incorrectly working TrueHD decoder and ask them to fix this? I've already done that, but got no reply at all. Maybe we'll have more success if multiple people complain... Thanks!
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Old 12th June 2007, 09:13   #170  |  Link
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Originally Posted by The_Keymaker View Post
Here is the link to the latest version of Eac3toGUI. It is version 0.82 and features all of Madshi's latest options.
Thanks! Just had a look at the GUI. Looks nice to me. Some comments:

(1) I know the help doesn't say it, but theoretically the AC3 bitrate can be anything between 32 and 640. So if you want you could add further bitrates, or even a slider or up/down buttons or whatever you like. Smaller bitrates than 192 may make sense e.g. for mono tracks.

(2) I'd suggest to rename the "Select Filter" text to "Force Filter" cause there are also Sonic filters that eac3to can use, if you don't activate any of the "force" switches. Alternatively you could replace the two checkboxes with 3 radios like "use whatever filter eac3to prefers", "use Nero filters" and "use orbitLee's filter".

(3) 96khz is also a valid option for PCM. 8 channels is also a valid option for TrueHD (although currently it doesn't make much sense, since the Nero decoder currently only supports 5.1 decoding).

(4) eac3to supports any channel order you like, not just 0,1,2,3,4,5 and the Blu-Ray one. E.g. you could do "5,4,0,1,2,3" or "2,1,4,0,3,5" or for 8 channels you could do "5,7,1,2,6,4,3,0" or anything else. I just don't know if there's any use for any other order than the default one (0,1,2,3,4,5[,6,7]) and the Blu-Ray one (0,1,2,5,3,4[,6,7]). But you can tell eac3to to reorder the channels to any strange order you like. Don't know if it's worth it adding this capability to the GUI, though.

(5) The TrueHD options can all be selected at the same time, but the GUI always allows only one option at the same time.

(6) Most PCM options can also be selected at the same time. Of course you can only select either 16bit or 24bit. And you can only select "big" or "little". But you could select e.g. "24bit", "8 channels" and "big" at the same time. Btw, you may want to rename "big" and "little" to "big endian" and "little endian", so people know what the options mean.

(7) Supported input file extensions are: "pcm", "eac3", "dd+", "ddp", "ec3", "wav" and "evo".

(8) It would be nice (but not necessary) if you disabled all options which don't make sense for the input file type. E.g. the TrueHD options could be disabled if the user selects an E-AC3 input file.

These are just some comments and suggestions. You don't need to implement any of this, of course!
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Old 12th June 2007, 16:36   #171  |  Link
otaku975
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hello
i was trying to do some conversion
but i was wondering one thing
its DTSHD to DTS
wich extension should the dtshd file be set to , and same for dts output
thanks!
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Old 12th June 2007, 16:54   #172  |  Link
madshi
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i was trying to do some conversion
its DTSHD to DTS
eac3to currently doesn't do this conversion. I think there are other tools that do that, but you won't find them in this thread. Sorry, don't have a link at hand.
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Old 12th June 2007, 19:05   #173  |  Link
xkodi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
eac3to currently doesn't do this conversion. I think there are other tools that do that, but you won't find them in this thread. Sorry, don't have a link at hand.
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...&postcount=900
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Old 13th June 2007, 02:08   #174  |  Link
The_Keymaker
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Thanks for the feedback Madshi.

Here is the link for the latest version of EAC3toGUI (version 0.90):

http://www.sendspace.com/file/vech6e

EAC3toGUI Version 0.90 changelog:

- Changed filter section title to "Force Filter"
- Added "endian" to big and little option labels
- Added 128kbit and 64kbit AC-3 bit rate options
- Now allows simultaneous selection of TureHD options
- Now allows simultaneous selection of PCM options
- Added logic to allow selection of common TrueHD and
PCM options (96KHz, 8 Ch) but not BOTH!

This version does not yet feature allowing specific channel orders or file type checking (i.e., PCM or TrueHD). My program can only determine filetype by extension. If this is sufficient, I will try to implement that in the next version.

Please let me if you discover any problems.

Regards,
The_Keymaker
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Old 13th June 2007, 08:59   #175  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keymaker View Post
Here is the link for the latest version of EAC3toGUI (version 0.90)
Looks good - thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keymaker View Post
This version does not yet feature allowing specific channel orders or file type checking (i.e., PCM or TrueHD). My program can only determine filetype by extension. If this is sufficient, I will try to implement that in the next version.
If you ask me, filetype by extension is just fine.
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Old 15th June 2007, 12:29   #176  |  Link
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I have some probleme to encode the sound of "Nine Inch Nails BESIDE YOU IN TIME".

I have the entiere HD-DVD and encode the video part, but I can't encode the sound.
The TrueHD gives me an error with eac3to

Quote:
C:\Documents and Settings\Garf\Bureau\eac3>eac3to.exe "D:\55.wav" "D:\nin.ac3"
-448 -keep24
Converting the wav file to ac3. Please wait...

Aften: A/52 audio encoder
Version SVN
(c) 2006-2007 Justin Ruggles, Prakash Punnoor, et al.

input format: Signed 24-bit 48000 Hz 5.1-channel
output format: 48000 Hz 3/2 + LFE

"aften" reported error code "3221225477".

C:\Documents and Settings\Garf\Bureau\eac3>
eac3to already convert my TrueHD in EVO files and gives me an 6ch wav.

And when I demux the other track in E-AC3 and convert with eac3to, I have an eroor with Dolby who can't parsing the header of the file...
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Old 15th June 2007, 14:23   #177  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburst67 View Post
I have some probleme to encode the sound of "Nine Inch Nails BESIDE YOU IN TIME".
That error code in hexa is "C0000005" which means that "aften" crashed in a bad way while trying to encode the wav. Can you play that wav? Does it sound ok if you play that file? Which aften version are you using? Try a different aften version. Maybe that one you're using is buggy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburst67 View Post
And when I demux the other track in E-AC3 and convert with eac3to, I have an eroor with Dolby who can't parsing the header of the file...
Can't say anything about that without seeing the exact error message.
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Old 18th June 2007, 08:54   #178  |  Link
Binnugsai
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Help to encoding

I have so some HD-DVD in my hard disk and use evodemux.

So i want to know if i have to use for the sound format when demux to "sound.evo" or sound.ddp.... which on do i use exactly !

And when i try for example to use the English sound from King Kong about 1500 k, i have some prob and a error message with Aften revision.......

So please, can someone can upload with eac3togui with inside the good tools, aften, sox etc.....

Thank you for all everybody.

Note : i try to demux one EVO, the full movie from King Kong, Movie and sound, i use VC1 and ddp for the sound and i have a file kingkong.evo, i try to use eac3togui 0.90 and failed. Nothing, no reaction about the software.
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Old 18th June 2007, 09:08   #179  |  Link
madshi
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@Binnugsai, it's a bit difficult for me to help you without having specific erorr messages. For TrueHD tracks you should use EvoDemux to mux the TrueHD track (and only this track) into a separate EVO file. For E-AC3 tracks you should simply demux the E-AC3 tracks. The TrueHD EVO files and demuxed E-AC3 files can then be converted to AC3 or FLAC by using eac3to (or the GUI).
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Old 18th June 2007, 09:23   #180  |  Link
Binnugsai
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Thank you Mdshi, nice to, you.

So you said me to use for TrueHD in a separate EVO in output,
feature1.evo and feature2.evo with only one sound, that's it !. and for the dd+( eac3) just demux but fir the output format, dd+ or ddp or another one.....
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