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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:14   #7841  |  Link
CruNcher
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What do you think about the "Magic Kernel" ? http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/magic/
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Old 2nd June 2011, 15:43   #7842  |  Link
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Feature request:

Where those bars show the sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for the different scalers, add a bar for "speed".
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Old 2nd June 2011, 21:06   #7843  |  Link
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Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
What do you think about the "Magic Kernel" ? http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/magic/
Doesn't look like it preserves detail very well when downsampling, and I would really have to see it in motion to judge it properly for upsampling. The thing is, what might look fine with still images, can look really bad with video once things start moving. I would definitely like to see some new algorithms implemented in a future madVR update to evaluate them though.

Actually, at some point, I feel like there are some algorithms that should be removed from madVR. Sometimes too much choice is a bad thing.

Last edited by 6233638; 2nd June 2011 at 21:28.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 12:06   #7844  |  Link
Trumpetguy
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MadVR bug? Horizontal and/or vertical line

I have searched this thread and browsed most pages, no luck, and therefore a potential bug post:

Since 0.61 a horizontal black or coloured (usually green) horizontal line appears after some time. It is about one pixel wide and stretches the entire width of the screen. I have also experienced a similar vertical line, and one time both at the same time. The line is only there in exclusive mode. The line disappears for some time after pausing or toggling between windowed and exclusive modes.

Other things that may be relevant:
- the line is not always at the same location, but always around 2/3 from the bottom of the screen.
- did not see this in 0.60 and earlier versions
- I usually play MKV with subs. Not tested on dvd or bd discs
- it may be connected to mkv playback with with .sup rather than .sub subtitles.
- Did not see any difference with D3D11
- I have seen it in window mode also, but that seems to be connected to up/downscaling settings, and actually made two flickering horizontal lines.
- nVidia driver has been updated during the last few days. I truly hope this is not the cause.

Is there anyone that have the same rendering error or can explain how to get rid of it?

Last edited by Trumpetguy; 3rd June 2011 at 14:54.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 12:06   #7845  |  Link
cyberbeing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajp_anton View Post
Where those bars show the sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for the different scalers, add a bar for "speed".
Adding a bar for speed would be very uninteresting since there are only three basic speed groups, and only two that really matter.
Unlike sharpness, aliasing, and ringing, it can't be easily quantified either, since speed is relative depending on hardware and how much you are upscaling or downscaling.

Nearest Neighbor & Bilinear = Very Fast -> Fast (Built-in GPU resampling)

Mitchell-Netravali = Catmull-Rom = Bicubic = Soft Cubic = Average (Cubic resampling kernels - speed should be identical)

Lanczos3-Lanczos8 & Spline36-Spline64 = Slow (few taps) -> Very Slow (more taps) (Special resampling kernels).

Ultimately up to madshi, though I could see how relaying this basic knowledge somewhere outside of this thread, may be useful to new users who attempt to use madVR with under-powered GPUs.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 14:54   #7846  |  Link
leeperry
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Hi madshi,

as we recently discussed, 0.49 has been giving me the best results on XPSP3 so far("upload frames in render thread" does seem to very much matter IME)...I can test the latest versions, but they seem to work better on W7/ATi than on XPSP3/nvidia(I get dropped frames randomly)

anyways, there's one feature that would really rock: YV16/YV24 support

SmoothAdjust supports it, using some "hack" apparently, and even YV24.

Manao has told me that he could also support them in MaskTools...and I could really use a full YV16/24 pipeline for Avisynth 2.6 realtime post-processing in ffdshow: SmoothAdjust(for a killer TV>PC conversion) > LSF > GrainF3 > YV16/24 output to mVR > RGB32 with dithering

You've been pushing for 32fp in ffdshow audio for a while, I think it'd be a killer addition to push for YV16/24 post-processing in ffdshow video \o/

automatic upscaled SD detection would be the icing on the cake, otherwise I will ask tritical if he wouldn't mind making a YV16/24 build of ColorMatrix.


Last edited by leeperry; 3rd June 2011 at 15:04.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 15:12   #7847  |  Link
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I think you misunderstand what YV16 and YV24 are. YV16 is still a 8-bit format, except it has 4:2:2 chroma resolution, and for YV24 its 4:4:4.
Judging from the first SmoothAdjust post you linked, you seem to think YV16 is 16-bit, but its not. Then you managed to confuse me with your confusedness, as you mix different things into one.

As i understand those filters you listed, they are not upsampling chroma resolution, so you really want a 16-bit 4:2:0 format, instead of a 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 format.

PS:
YV16 is a rather uncommon format, YUY2 is the most common 8-bit 4:2:2 format, and if any 4:2:2 format is used, this should be it.
A 16-bit format for 4:2:0 would be P016 (its basically NV12 in 16-bit) (which is actually already supported by madVR)

PPS:
Good luck getting any changes in ffdshow.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 15:21   #7848  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
you managed to confuse me with your confusedness
You do seem confused

What I understood is that LaTo is stacking MSB/LSB 16bit into YV16/YV24...hence the aforementioned "hack" term.

Many output formats were recently ditched from ffdshow, maybe YV16/24 were part of them..not sure.

Anyway, it would be great if we could find a "hack" that everyone would follow, so we could get >8bit post-processing in ffdshow. So much for 32fp, yet ffdshow/Avisynth still use a very lossy 8bit pipeline for video
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Old 3rd June 2011, 15:25   #7849  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Why use hacks? There are pixel formats for real 16-bit (like the P016 mentioned above), any hack will just result in pain in the long run.

Besides, whatever "hack" people come up with, ffdshow has no developers anymore.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 15:53   #7850  |  Link
leeperry
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Avisynth 2.6 is still stuck to 8bit.

There's no need for much stuff to be added to ffdshow, only allowing YV16/24 output to mVR. sansnom05 was kind enough to add 32fp VST support in ffdshow audio at my request(and I can't thank him enough), maybe he would also be willing to add YV16/24 support

Last edited by leeperry; 4th June 2011 at 02:53.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 16:04   #7851  |  Link
nevcairiel
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So request 16-bit support from AviSynth. Like i said, the whole DirectShow world is already full of hacks, adding more is a terrible idea.

Btw, the difference to 32-fp is that ffdshow already supported 32fp, and that its an official type, no hacks. Also, sansnom is gone.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 16:12   #7852  |  Link
leeperry
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I still have his email, and he only joined the ffdshow team coz I whined for 32fp VST...he was working on MPC-HC in the first place.

Well, this hack would allow 16bit right here & right now. I would guess that IanB is well aware that post-processing in 8bit is a terrible idea.
Let's see what madshi has to say about this, shall we
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Old 3rd June 2011, 21:56   #7853  |  Link
Atomix77
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If anyone is experiencing pixelated video after successfully installed madvr renderer, then you have obviously deleted the madvr folder.
I struggled with this problem for a long time until I found what caused my video to be extremely pixelated and low quality, even if madvr was selected as the renderer in MPC options.
So if you download latest version and extract it to a safe place, where you won't touch it in the future and then install it, you shouldn't have a problem.
It really should be written on the first page, that after madVR installation, you can't delete the folder containing the installation files, which is kinda stupid, because I like to delete every installation file after I have installed it, to get rid of excess files.
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Old 3rd June 2011, 22:28   #7854  |  Link
Andy o
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It's not that stupid. If you know you can delete folders after installation, you should know which folders. Not that there's anything wrong with not knowing, but if you don't know, you shouldn't be in the business of deleting stuff anyway.

Rule of thumb: if the program you just downloaded opens a pretty window with colors and stuff and/or says "Windows installer blah blah" as the title, you probably can erase the folder. If it just opens a command prompt window and a message says "xxxxxxx.ax filter registered" or some such thing, and you can only press OK, then you don't delete that folder.
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Old 4th June 2011, 08:14   #7855  |  Link
cyberbeing
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madVR doesn't have an installer, so there are no installer files to delete. Possibly in the future madshi will create one, but as of right now, you extract the madVR program files and manually register the filter. Adding a blurb to the readme.txt should resolve the issue.

That this even happened means this is something the MPC-HC guys should fix. If a registered filter no longer exists on the system, MPC-HC shouldn't let you select it, but it looks like it does. That is bad behavior, especially if it falls-back to the default renderer without throwing an error that the selected renderer is missing.
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Old 4th June 2011, 09:21   #7856  |  Link
Andy o
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MPC-HC doesn't show the unregistered filters, but if a filter has been registered but its necessary files deleted, should MPC-HC take the time to look for them? Can it, even?
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Old 4th June 2011, 09:56   #7857  |  Link
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Quote:
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MPC-HC doesn't show the unregistered filters
AFAIR it does. For External filters list.

Back to the topic. Is Half-floating (16fp) really enough for video processing (YUV>RGB, scaling)? Does anyone see any difference in HFP vs FFP with EVR CP? Sometimes GPU and VRAM load is not too high, so why not to use more accuracy in video processing? As an option. I'm pretty sure these questions were answered already, so it won't be hard to answer now
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Old 4th June 2011, 11:00   #7858  |  Link
Andy o
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It still shows them if you have unregistered after adding it to the externals list, but when you go to the "add" list they aren't there. Also, if they're in the externals list and you double-click on them they usually open their control panel, if they're registered. If they're not then nothing happens.
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Old 4th June 2011, 16:21   #7859  |  Link
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Hi all,

I have learned more so much on this thread that I think I now understand almost everything that is going on. So I thought I would return the favor and relay a "breakthrough" I just had.

Earlier I was having problems with dropped frames when trying to use the more advanced scaling algorithms such as multi-tap Lanczos or Spline, which seems to be the area in which the quality of this awesome renderer really shines. A few weeks ago, I was following along with most of you tweaking "flush" settings trying to get this to display as smooth as possible.

However, I always assumed that "hardware decoding" is preferable, if not necessary, to achieve optimum viewing. Thus for months I ran my NVidia-based cards in SLI being decoded via CoreAVC w/Cuda or even DXVA. In this configuration, even in SLI, I could barely run SoftCubic/Spline (my favorite combinations) without significant frame-droppage. I was about to buy a new expensive video-card to fix the problem. HOWEVER, in my case, I have an overclocked Q6600 CPU... So I tried disabling all hardware-based decoding, completely bypassing CoreAVC and instead using ffdshow's ffmpeg-mt software/CPU based decoder. (Remember there is no difference in image quality regardless of where the decoding calculations are performed.) Now I am elated to report that now that my GPU's are now exclusively dedicated to rendering/scaling via madVR, I can run every possible combination of resizing algorithm on my computer on practically any type of file without any dropped frames!

I hope this helps some of you; please let me know if you have any questions/concerns (or if I am not making any sense.

Good luck, and thanks so much for this wonderful renderer!

PS - In regards to some of the discussion above, I run ReClock in PCM mode with DTS/AC3/AAC previously decoded to PCM in either AC3Filter or ffdShow. This allows ReClock to do its magic and send the "synced" PCM signal along HDMI. However, if you are stuck with SPDIF, I do NOT recommend decoding it to PCM just to re-encode it to ac3 in ReClock. (Unless you are dealing with PAL speedup...I suggest just dealing with the minor offsets. This is especially true if you are bit-streaming something like DTS-MA/TrueHD etc...there you cannot touch it without losing the lossless quality of the bit-stream.) I have found that the madVR info screen that says "1 frame repeat every x minutes" gives a good indication on how "off" you are. For instance, when playing a 23.976fps source on my 24Hz TV without Reclock it is usually in the range of "one frame drop every 2 mins 46 seconds" or so. However, when Reclock is on it says "One Frame drop every 1.5 days" or so. While the later is preferable, the former is IMHO not bad enough to lose a pure bit-stream by decoding it if you are just going to re-encode it again. (However, since I am not re-encoding the PCM and since AC3Filter is the best sounding audio decoder I have found, my setup works wonderfully for me. When playing a lossless bit-stream, I just deal with the frame delay every few minutes (which often do not come to pass anyway!))

Well I hope this helped...on the other hand, please let me know if *I* am confused.
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Old 4th June 2011, 17:42   #7860  |  Link
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Ctrl +j,in average time, which is the most important parameter for a fluid movie, rendering time or present time,thank

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