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Old 20th March 2019, 00:33   #55421  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Ummmmm, that's pretty whacked. Shouldn't the TV internally be using RGB for everything, as well? If YCbCr444 doesn't produce banding, correct me if I'm off base here, doesn't that signify that the TV *might* be processing everything internally in that format and that receiving RGB and converting it is maybe what's causing the banding? Or am I just being dense here...
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Old 20th March 2019, 00:35   #55422  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
Ummmmm, that's pretty whacked. Shouldn't the TV internally be using RGB for everything, as well? If YCbCr444 doesn't produce banding, correct me if I'm off base here, doesn't that signify that the TV *might* be processing everything internally in that format and that receiving RGB and converting it is maybe what's causing the banding? Or am I just being dense here...
Its probably just a really shitty processing chip, or its being configured rather wrong in PC RGB mode.

TVs usually shouldn't have a reason to use YCbCr internally, since the panel is in RGB, and LUT adjustments etc should be done in RGB as well.
But then, manufacturers like to save a few bucks even on a $2000 TV, and you get shit like 4:2:2 subsampling in movie mode. You can't subsample RGB like that, so it has to use YCbCr internally at some point (and even worse, subsampled). Probably just for silly reasons, like the video processor being just bad like that.

I wonder if review sites like rtings.com test 4:4:4 in non-PC mode, or at least check for banding issues in PC mode, I should check one of their latest reviews for such info (Edit: apparently not quite as detailed).
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Old 20th March 2019, 00:38   #55423  |  Link
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Great job, LG! LOL UGH
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Old 20th March 2019, 00:47   #55424  |  Link
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EITHER.

They got 1 corrected table, and slaps it on all modes, (which) causes the corruption in RGB, as that is the wrong table.

OR

They enable the table for YCbCr and Disable it for Native RGB. __ As in the panel itself is RGB but its response is not entirely linear, thereby exhibiting its raw behavior in RGB mode.

__ This second case is much more likely than the first.
__ That PC mode is likely the raw, uncorrected color response of the oled panel .
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Old 20th March 2019, 02:36   #55425  |  Link
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What's the outlook on Madvr Dynamic tone map VS DolbyV..


And how does the dolbyV 12bit moniker work ?

How does their 1080p layer add 2 more bits onto the base layer ?
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Old 20th March 2019, 05:58   #55426  |  Link
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Is this really the place to be asking that?
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Old 20th March 2019, 15:23   #55427  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
What's the outlook on Madvr Dynamic tone map VS DolbyV..


And how does the dolbyV 12bit moniker work ?

How does their 1080p layer add 2 more bits onto the base layer ?
There is no current way to test this. I would assume Dolby Vision would be more subtle compared to any of the dynamic tone mapping solutions for HDR10, but they are both frame-based. The results would be dictated more by the tone mapping algorithm used because frame-based metadata is merely a guide for tone mapping.

Dolby Vision is an independent, second layer, so it could be any bit depth. The extra two bits can lessen banding of the specular highlights when dithered down to 10-bits by providing a better source. That is one notable advantage.
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Old 20th March 2019, 16:27   #55428  |  Link
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Madshi or nevcairiel could you comment on this:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...99#post1867399
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Old 20th March 2019, 16:38   #55429  |  Link
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I gotta retract my statement about 23/24 Hz in pc-mode causing 3:2 pulldown judder on the LG C8.
They must have fixed this at one point via firmware update without mentioning it in the update notes.

I used rtings pulldown-judder test and it seems to have proper 5:5 cadence in pc-mode now even without the greyed out real cinema option. I did that same test last year and there would always be judder when outputting 23/24 Hz in pc-mode.


This is how it looks now:



This is how it looks in non-pc mode with real cinema disabled and how it looked in pc-mode when I tested this previously:


So this is good and it means that I'm gonna use pc-mode with ycbcr444 for now... That is until I find some other issue with it.
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Old 20th March 2019, 16:52   #55430  |  Link
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Are you sure you are still in PC Mode when you tested ybcr444? I know that for some configurations (resolution, frequency, format), the LG will throw you out of PC Mode, defaulting to the HDMI processing without actually telling you. 1080p 23Hz I know does this on my B7. You can tell by making sure none of the greyed out options like real cinema return. I haven't actually tried your config since that will still limit me to the limited color range, but may be worth it if it reduces banding while keeping 4:4:4.
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Old 20th March 2019, 17:11   #55431  |  Link
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I haven't yet got the latest firmware update but for my C8 in PC mode, Real Cinema is greyed out at all refresh rates and it definitely seems to do 3:2 pulldown at 23p. Haven't done a formal test but I did look at end credits which were very choppy vs smooth out of PC mode with Real Cinema enabled.

I thought ycbcr from a PC was considered a poor option? I'm not sure I'd want to use PC mode just for 4:4:4 chroma anyway but then I only use my HTPC for movie playback.

j82k, did you test PC mode with RGB limited>full>limited? I've owned a few LGs and all did better with that chain, especially near-black.
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Old 20th March 2019, 19:17   #55432  |  Link
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For all Kodi DSPlayer users, I'm trying to understand whether we could at least salvage madVR for continued Kodi use with updated builds (KDSPlayer being stuck with 17.6 for the foreseeable future).

madshi had something to say about this, three years ago and I am trying to reopen the discussion: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...975#pid2835975
Just use the components (madVR, LAV Filters, a PCF.xml, your choice of any player(s), and an applicable .bat(s) if any) seamlessly with Kodi v.18.2 or any other version now or in the future. I simply install new Kodi builds/versions and leave the rest of the setup in place. Takes about 1 minute to upgrade from 17.1 to 18.2 for instance. I do nightlies everyday. Same with updating any of the other components should you desire to.
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Old 20th March 2019, 19:30   #55433  |  Link
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i through this was the madVR thread and not the LG has well known processing issues thread.
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Old 20th March 2019, 19:55   #55434  |  Link
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Sorry for the off topic but in the oled specific threads on other forums there are almost zero pc users....

Quote:
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Are you sure you are still in PC Mode when you tested ybcr444? .....
Yes I just double checked.
In pc-mode fullRGB looks terrible, limited RGB is better and ycbcr444 has the least amount of banding, similar to non-pc mode I'd say. Of course using the correct chain in each mode.

This doesn't really make sense but it is what it is. Maybe it's just a bug. LG doesn't seem to care much about pc-mode. Their oleds also were using the wrong color gamut when using HDR in pc-mode and that bug lasted from my 2016 C6 and was still present on the C8 when I got it but it got fixed at one point....

I've never seen the TV automatically switch between hdmi modes, how would a pc even be able to control that?

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.....
j82k, did you test PC mode with RGB limited>full>limited? I've owned a few LGs and all did better with that chain, especially near-black.
Yes that was actually the configuration I used in non-pc mode recently and the first one I tested in pc-mode. It was better than a full full full chain but still worse than ycbcr444.

Maybe they fixed the 3:2 pulldown problem when outputting 24Hz in pc-mode with 04.10.31.
I'm absoluteley sure that last year when I tested this it couldn't do proper 5:5 cadence in pc-mode.

edit: I still have the measurements, here is a gif of "limited 8bit - full RGB 8bit - limited vs ycbcr444" in pc-mode. The better one being ycbcr444.
https://imgur.com/wZb0ppW

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Old 20th March 2019, 21:04   #55435  |  Link
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I wonder how RGB (both chains) stacks up against ycbcr in non-pc mode. But yeah all OT, maybe switch to the general madVR discussion thread.

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Old 20th March 2019, 21:23   #55436  |  Link
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just start one.
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Old 20th March 2019, 22:01   #55437  |  Link
ashlar42
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Just use the components (madVR, LAV Filters, a PCF.xml, your choice of any player(s), and an applicable .bat(s) if any) seamlessly with Kodi v.18.2 or any other version now or in the future. I simply install new Kodi builds/versions and leave the rest of the setup in place. Takes about 1 minute to upgrade from 17.1 to 18.2 for instance. I do nightlies everyday. Same with updating any of the other components should you desire to.
Yeah, well... if I wanted to use an external player I wouldn't have written what I wrote. I've been using Kodi for more than 14 years, I've gone through every Windows solution, including external players, it's not as if I do not know about them.
In any case, I've posted a $500 bounty on DSPlayer thread on Kodi.tv, for a perfectly working Kodi DSPlayer 18.2. If anybody wishes to join in the effort to attract a developer, feel free. I know it's not a lot of money but maybe, just maybe, merging changes from 18.2 to the current DSPlayer 17.6 will not be too hard. As I have no way of knowing, I couldn't think of anything else to do.

Last edited by ashlar42; 20th March 2019 at 22:37.
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Old 21st March 2019, 00:48   #55438  |  Link
brazen1
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Is there something external players lack that DSPlayer doesn't because I experience the opposite.
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Old 21st March 2019, 03:26   #55439  |  Link
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A little confused about the Madvr Envy. At first, I thought, $200-300.

So in another thread, madshi said it's gonna cost -alot more- than an hd fury. Because internally, paraphrasing Madshi, the envy device MAY HAVE multiple components which each by themselves cost more than an hdfury device.

OK, let's say, low estimate of $600.. That's the price of an rtx 2080.

Is such a device going to have as much processing power as a mass market 2080 ?

Even coding super tight to hardware metal, Wouldn't it still make more sense to go HTPC w/ 2080, because the htpc-gpu will be much easier to expand and update ?
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Old 21st March 2019, 03:42   #55440  |  Link
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https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=55037

he was very clear to me.
it has clear application where an HTPC is no option. and it's not hard for me to see these cases from an HTPC is to complicated to an HTPC has simply no access to it.

his advertisement could interpreted in a way that it can be used for HDR games.
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