Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 24th March 2018, 16:48   #49801  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatKnight View Post
I understand it's difficult to see the banding because the screenshots have the colors washed out. But I can assure you it's quite noticeable when displayed with the correct gamut.

D3D11 FSE is a no go for me, because everytime i right click or need to exit fullscreen the display flickers and goes black, and even sometimes goes out of range and I have to unplug and plug back the HDMI cable.
Even though I need to toggle the OS HDR at the display settings before watching an HDR movie, I still find it less anoying. (my opinion)

I'll wait for madshi's input on this. Maybe the NV HDR D3D11 windowed 10 bit's banding it's something that he could work on his side.
You might be better of using 8-bit dithered until this issue is fixed. Your eyes probably won't notice the difference.
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 16:49   #49802  |  Link
Warner306
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,127
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Odd again my end. I always use D3D11 FSE, and I see differences in tone mapping and clarity etc with the OS HDR trigger.

K

Update - I have narrowed the settings down that show the differences using the OS HDR toggle. Using Dsplayer Kodi (last build), if I set to use Full Screen in system settings, and set MadVR to either windowed or FSE, it looks the same as using the OS HDR toggle off and use MadVr to send metadata. However, if I set use FullScreen window in Dsplayer, and set Madvr to FSE, using the OS HDR toggle, Madvr OSD reports Windowed mode, and I get vastly improved clarity and tone mapping.

Perhaps if anyone else if using Kodi, they could validate my observations?
I don't think I understand you. Setting the Kodi GUI to fullscreen windowed vs. true fullscreen changes the image? How? It makes the Nvidia API work or not work? What would the GUI have to do with the video player?
Warner306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 17:17   #49803  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
I don't think I understand you. Setting the Kodi GUI to fullscreen windowed vs. true fullscreen changes the image? How? It makes the Nvidia API work or not work? What would the GUI have to do with the video player?
Ok, thought I was pretty clear. Yes, using fullscreen windowed, using the OS HDR toggle with Madvr set to HDR passthrough but not send metadata (and thus bypass the Nvidia API HDR switching) produces a completely different image (for the better).

As to why? good question, hence my post.

I think you are on the Kodi forum, so perhaps you could try, as above, and see if you notice any difference on your setup?

K
oldpainlesskodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 17:33   #49804  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrindor View Post
Can someone explain to me how to setup a profile to automatically enable 3D when a 3D movie is launched via kodi with MPC-BE as an external player? The MadVR's setting "automatically enable 3D" doesn't work, I must check the box manually prior to watching.

I've seen some people mention that this is possible but could never figure it out. For reference, I use 3D frame packed MKVs.
I posted the instructions a few pages back. The profile code is there. 3D has to be enabled globally, in display settings of the O/S. This is what madVR enables and disables as needed. It also has to be enabled in the NVidia control panel as needed. When you play an HDR title, stereoscopic is automatically disabled in the NVidia control panel. Next time you go to play 3D, it won't because it's disabled. So, it either has to be manually turned back on in the NVidia control panel or automated. My guide explains how to do this automation by using .bat files. It applies to all players. If you have resolution profiles with this madVR 3D setting, make certain the setting is on and adjusted for all the resolutions in the profile, not just the 3D one. ALL of them.

To add to the 8bit/10bit discussion, don't confuse FSE with windowed fullscreen. Double clicking the player window takes it out of FSE but is not the same thing as windowed fullscreen. This is always going to render 8bit. HDR is fine windowed or FSE. Makes no difference. 4:2:2 has an 10bit selection yes and would be wonderful except it's limited only, not full.

Nothing is going to trigger Windows HDR and advanced color switch on and off as needed. This is why we use madVR with private API's. They do.

In the future, Windows update is promising an HDR calibration tool. I imagine this means the HDR switch in Windows will be able to remain on all the time and allow us to calibrate the desktop to a reasonable usable view while providing calibration for video. I suppose drivers will need to update so that 8bit limit in Windows desktop with HDR will still allow native 10bit of HDR titles.

How any of this will affect using madVR private API's vs Windows on all the time HDR will probably be slight since our recent tests show there is little or no difference between O/S HDR or GPU HDR except currently one is manually turned on and the other is automated. In the future, the automation should be moot if the calibration ability is worth a damn. How madshi will react, if at all, is a mystery but the tests we are doing now should be fuel for his interest as it is ours.

I want to add, going by memory, there is some difference between O/S HDR and GPU HDR. One you might notice: Look in your panels brightness and contrast setting when selecting madVR to use the private API's and pass it through. Then look at the display settings when you use the O/S HDR. This may be why some claim big differences. GPU HDR passing through evokes the display to calibrate. O/S HDR isn't evoking the display to calibrate, rather producing a set look hence why windows desktop looks like junk. Metadata isn't in use. I could be wrong about some or all of this.

MADSHI! WHERE YOU IS?
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1909 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5 PotPlayer
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D

Last edited by brazen1; 24th March 2018 at 18:14.
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 18:16   #49805  |  Link
foozoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 113
Madshi is dead...

EDIT:
He is on another forum... and posted a new test release.
http://madshi.net/madVRhdrTest3.rar

Last edited by foozoor; 24th March 2018 at 22:39.
foozoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 18:18   #49806  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 228
Nah. I'm fairly certain, well no, positive he's lurking. And his main perception is: Until moral improves, the beatings will continue.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1909 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5 PotPlayer
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 18:22   #49807  |  Link
el Filou
Registered User
 
el Filou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 547
Stop pestering madshi expecting ETAs for new releases or immediate reactions.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10 1809, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters, ReClock, madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, 6.0 speakers Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400, GeForce 1050 Ti
el Filou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 18:33   #49808  |  Link
brazen1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 228
Lighten up. No one in recent history has made any demands of the sort.
__________________
HOW TO-Kodi 2D-3D-UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1909 9604GB RGB 4:4:4 @Matched Refresh Rates 8,10,12bit
KODI MPC-HC/BE PDVD19 DVDFab 3 & 5 PotPlayer
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
brazen1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 19:56   #49809  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
This is because you measured BT2020, which isn't relevant for 99.99% of current content. Most recent consumer displays cover at least 90% of DCI-P3, which is enough to reproduce well most current content.
No, I measured DCI-P3, of course my TV doesn't do BT.2020. The primaries are not anywhere close to BT.2020's either. Peak Luminescence Target: Relative, ST 2084 HDR (PQ), DCI P3, and D65 in Calman. I have also attached my measured color volumes, viewable with Calman's Color Volume Visualizer.
HDR: Color Volume


SDR (BT.1886): Color Volume



Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Linearity is always important. It's easier to correct linearity with a 3D LUT, but you can still have linearity issues with a 3D LUT depending on the number of points used in the cube etc.
Nothing a 3DLUT can do is going to help a 50% coverage volume but madVR's full resolution 3DLUT really can help non-linear displays look a lot better. Nothing you can do short of getting a new display actually fixes a badly non-linear display but a 65x65x65 3DLUT can be a big improvement. Argyllcms can even do a full 256x256x256 3DLUT, but I have never had that improve anything. I actually haven't used Calman with any significantly non-linear displays but I am sure it would help too.

I said linearity was less important, not that linearity was unimportant.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 24th March 2018 at 20:01.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 21:54   #49810  |  Link
famasfilms
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 17
I have a nvidia gfx card, LG OLED and am using madVR to pass through HDR to the display and seems to be working properly

BUT

normally I have the PC input assigned as a PC on the television.

Changing this input to "home theatre" or anything else changes the colour tone of HDR content dramatically.

eg on "home theatre" Mad Max is very orange but leaving it on PC makes it more normal looking - not washed out or faded, just normal

Which is the right setting?
famasfilms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2018, 22:37   #49811  |  Link
j82k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 146
On 2016 LG Oleds (not sure about 2017) HDR is messed up when using PC HDMI input icon. Not sure what the TV is doing with HDR in pc-mode but it looks as if it was using a wrong color gamut or something like that.

I haven't watched mad max in HDR yet, so I don't know how colorful it is but other movies will look desaturated and dull when using pc-mode HDR.

Last edited by j82k; 24th March 2018 at 22:39.
j82k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 04:32   #49812  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by famasfilms View Post
normally I have the PC input assigned as a PC on the television.

Changing this input to "home theatre" or anything else changes the colour tone of HDR content dramatically.
I have a 2017 LG OLED and you asking made me check, the difference is dramatic:

PC v.s. Home Theater icon used for the input on the TV, identical settings otherwise. Set to the same D65 white point. 538 nits, OLED 80, Contrast 100, Brightness 50, Color 50, Technicolor, Warm2 High: R=-8, G=-8,B=5, Low: R=0, G=0, B=-1.

HDR Home Theater:

HDR PC:


Damn you LG!

Quote:
Originally Posted by famasfilms View Post
Which is the right setting?
Home Theater seems to have much better coverage on my TV. It is still mostly 4:4:4 but 4:2:2 shows up more than it does when set to PC, so there is extra processing that has some color blending. Good for video but not great for a monitor or precise chroma upscaling.

Edit: Neither mode is that great out of the box, the white point is pretty bad by default, at least on my TV. HDR content definitely looks better in Home Theater mode, even after creating a 3DLUT. I get a better 3DLUT for obvious reasons.
__________________
madVR options explained

Last edited by Asmodian; 25th March 2018 at 07:23.
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 07:28   #49813  |  Link
cork_OS
Registered User
 
cork_OS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Minsk (Blr)
Posts: 146
Without madshi, this thread is so pointless that I completely understand his absence.
__________________
I'm infected with poor sources.
cork_OS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 07:57   #49814  |  Link
Asmodian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,707
What a useful post.
__________________
madVR options explained
Asmodian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 08:04   #49815  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by foozoor View Post
madshi posted a new test release.
Got some notes to go with that? Just posting a build is almost pointless.

Oh.. those HDR options.. 0.0



Quick comparison with the previous madVR version shows this performing a better HDR downscale, colors are more natural and I see better graduation too with the default settings. Keeping it.

Last edited by ryrynz; 25th March 2018 at 08:21.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 08:59   #49816  |  Link
jkauff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 434
I understand that HDR is the future, and that many of the most active members on the thread have already invested in HDR, but I hope madshi doesn't forget about us poor peasants who are still living in an SDR world.

I'm perfectly satisfied with the current madVR release, and can't think of any improvements it needs, but I got used to madVR getting more awesome for SDR with each release.
jkauff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 09:06   #49817  |  Link
ryrynz
Registered User
 
ryrynz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,229
This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.
ryrynz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 11:49   #49818  |  Link
nsnhd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 91
Yeah, although I've to use DXVA to downscaling, HDR contents look fantastic on my SDR projector/monitor screens.
nsnhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 12:15   #49819  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.
Indeed, and on my set (Samsung UE55KS8000 using HDR+ setting), with lumance reduction color space set to none, the tone mapping and quality looks very close HDR passthrough using the OS HDR toggle.

Amazing work indeed.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 25th March 2018 at 12:37.
oldpainlesskodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2018, 13:38   #49820  |  Link
Manni
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.
I am sure you meant purchase, rent or legally stream.
__________________
Win10 Pro x64 b1903 MCE
i7 3770K@4.0Ghz 16Gb@2.18Ghz EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 11Gb@2GHz 436.48 RGB Full 8bits
MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR/jRiver/MyMovies V5.25
Denon X8500H>HD Fury Maestro>JVC RS2000
Manni is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.