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Old 31st December 2016, 20:19   #41801  |  Link
Oguignant
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
For >=10 bit and if you add the overhead: yes.
Should I see wrong when it exceeds the bandwidth?
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Old 31st December 2016, 20:26   #41802  |  Link
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It cannot switch to that mode at all. Either there will be a fall-back to a different mode or there will be an error message.
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Old 31st December 2016, 20:27   #41803  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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Should I see wrong when it exceeds the bandwidth?
You wouldn't see anything, your GPU wouldn't allow to send anything above 18gbps, so even if you try to force it, you wouldn't get a signal...

btw it's hz not mhz....
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Old 31st December 2016, 20:29   #41804  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
It cannot switch to that mode at all. Either there will be a fall-back to a different mode or there will be an error message.
I use it 4k 60 mhz 10 bit 4.4.4 without any problem.
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Old 31st December 2016, 20:40   #41805  |  Link
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You don't, at least not via HDMI.
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Old 31st December 2016, 22:39   #41806  |  Link
Oguignant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
You don't, at least not via HDMI.
use rgb or ycbcr444 for hdmi 2.0b (Gtx 1080 and lg ef9500 uhd deep color) and madvr exclusive mode 10bit 4k 60mhz.
Do not tell me just "no", pls explain why you say "no"
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Old 1st January 2017, 00:10   #41807  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
use rgb or ycbcr444 for hdmi 2.0b (Gtx 1080 and lg ef9500 uhd deep color) and madvr exclusive mode 10bit 4k 60mhz.
Do not tell me just "no", pls explain why you say "no"
Because its physically impossible. Its beyond the bandwidth offered of HDMI 2.0. Nothing can change the physical properties of the HDMI protocol.

Just because madVR is in 10-bit mode doesn't necessarily mean your GPU outputs 10-bit to the TV.

The best you can do is 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or if you really want 10-bit for some reason its down to 4:2:2.
Its a shame they didn't increase the HDMI bandwidth slightly more to allow this, but alas they didn't.

HDMI 2.1 is supposed to be officialy announced at CES in January. All so far known about it is that it'll add dynamic HDR support - if it'll also increase the bandwidth is unknown (to me, anyway).
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Old 1st January 2017, 00:16   #41808  |  Link
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if it'll also increase the bandwidth is unknown (to me, anyway).
every information I've read so far has been suggesting there is not a bandwidth change and 2.1 will simply be a firmware update...
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Old 1st January 2017, 06:42   #41809  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Because its physically impossible. Its beyond the bandwidth offered of HDMI 2.0. Nothing can change the physical properties of the HDMI protocol.

Just because madVR is in 10-bit mode doesn't necessarily mean your GPU outputs 10-bit to the TV.

The best you can do is 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or if you really want 10-bit for some reason its down to 4:2:2.
Its a shame they didn't increase the HDMI bandwidth slightly more to allow this, but alas they didn't.

HDMI 2.1 is supposed to be officialy announced at CES in January. All so far known about it is that it'll add dynamic HDR support - if it'll also increase the bandwidth is unknown (to me, anyway).
Clarisimo!
So, when madvr says 10 bit in exclusive mode, what does it mean? I guess, madvr converts 8 bit into 10bit?

this means that Madvr can never match or exceed the quality of the native TV player?

pd. Happy New Year to everyone!
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Old 1st January 2017, 12:52   #41810  |  Link
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Does anyone know what kind of scaling can be done by a GTX 1050? I'm interested in that card for the 2160p60 10b HEVC decoding, although I'm not sure whether the extra VRAM of the 1050 Ti would make a difference for madVR?
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Old 1st January 2017, 13:38   #41811  |  Link
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@Patrk G
Could you make screencaps of from your Pioneer of Samsungs "Journey of Color" Demo like these ones














You could also use the Pictures just push them on the Pioneer with full light intensity

Calibration and Sharpness Setup are very important here
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Old 1st January 2017, 18:36   #41812  |  Link
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Clarisimo!
So, when madvr says 10 bit in exclusive mode, what does it mean?
It mean that last data which user mode software pass to driver is 10 bit. No more, no less.
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Old 1st January 2017, 20:08   #41813  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Cinemancave View Post
How should I configure madvr/lav in order to perform HDR-->SDR conversion and leaving BT.2020 untouched?

I have a JVC projector and a popular method of watching UHD is to let Panasonic UB700/900 do HDR-->SDR conversion with BT.2020 passthrough with the help of the HD fury/integral. I am basically interested in doing the same thing with Madvr since I now have HDR content on my HTPC. I am thinking this should be possible?
This post lead me to think about something: I've got a 4K TV and madVR set in relation to it.

Recently I changed video card (upgraded to a GTX1070) and used again dispcal to calibrate the TV, I set it to 2.4 gamma with 6500K white point... question is...should I recalibrate it to BT2020?

Now madVR is set "calibrated BT709 with gamma 2.4", if I change it to BT2020 I see that the video is like losing colours, with DCI-P3 I see it like a middle way, while BT709 is the one more colorful (even if with some video sometimes faces look a bit too red but not with all of them so I guess is also related to the way has been shooted).

Can anyone give me some opionion about this? Please :-)

thanks !
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:23   #41814  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Oguignant View Post
this means that Madvr can never match or exceed the quality of the native TV player?
Be careful, you cannot equate quality only to bitdepth.

For example, upscaling chroma with bilinear but preserving 10-bit is not better, IMO, than using jinc, NGU, or NNEDI3 for chroma scaling and dithering to 8-bit.

Actually, for display 10-bit is fairly unimportant if the dithering is high quality. Dithering doesn't live through compression so 10-bit is very good for source material and processing in >8bit is very important so errors don't build up but for final output and display madVR's 8-bit output with ordered or ED dithering is indistinguishable from 10-bit.
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:30   #41815  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Knight77 View Post
I set it to 2.4 gamma with 6500K white point... question is...should I recalibrate it to BT2020?
I do have some suggestions but let's cover pure calibration questions in the Display Calibration thread, please.
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Old 1st January 2017, 21:31   #41816  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The best you can do is 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or if you really want 10-bit for some reason its down to 4:2:2.
Hi nevcairiel (or others)

Source: UHD HDR bluray remux
GPU: 1070
Cable: HDMI
TV: Samsung ua65ks9000

Would you recommend 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or 60Hz10-bit 4:2:2 or something else?

Thanks.
Kiwi


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Old 1st January 2017, 22:02   #41817  |  Link
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I would strongly recommend 4:4:4 8-bit, madVR's chroma scaling is great and 10-bit isn't important with good dithering.

I don't really like the temporal dithering used by FRC displays but madVR's spatial dithering is excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Does anyone know what kind of scaling can be done by a GTX 1050? I'm interested in that card for the 2160p60 10b HEVC decoding, although I'm not sure whether the extra VRAM of the 1050 Ti would make a difference for madVR?
The RAM isn't too important for madVR, you can use smaller buffers, but the extra cores/shaders can allow the use of the higher end scalers, etc.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 00:38   #41818  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Be careful, you cannot equate quality only to bitdepth.

For example, upscaling chroma with bilinear but preserving 10-bit is not better, IMO, than using jinc, NGU, or NNEDI3 for chroma scaling and dithering to 8-bit.

Actually, for display 10-bit is fairly unimportant if the dithering is high quality. Dithering doesn't live through compression so 10-bit is very good for source material and processing in >8bit is very important so errors don't build up but for final output and display madVR's 8-bit output with ordered or ED dithering is indistinguishable from 10-bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I would strongly recommend 4:4:4 8-bit, madVR's chroma scaling is great and 10-bit isn't important with good dithering.

I don't really like the temporal dithering used by FRC displays but madVR's spatial dithering is excellent.



The RAM isn't too important for madVR, you can use smaller buffers, but the extra cores/shaders can allow the use of the higher end scalers, etc.

Please what ?

A Spatial noise Patern is indistinguishable from a Temporal Approach ?

No noise at all the clear Signal that is what you aiming for neither Temporal Noise nor Spatial Noise

But you never gonna see the benefit unless you see it on a total 10 bit Chain in and out in Motion

And you would need to see the Processing side by side so MadVR vs TV Chip (Signal Chain) anyways (did you do such a test with a 2016 TV out of the Premium Line ? )

And internally you never do any PP in the native 10 bit but above it same the new TVs seem todo Sony Processing it seems upto 14 bit internally (depending on the price you willing to pay).





This Scene of course will band extreme in 8 bit and the closer you are calibrated the more visible it will become and a simple spatial patern wont rescue you here in motion.

Not sure where these 1 Pixel error comes from in this Demo you can see very small red Pixel in various frames maybe the Sensor had issues, GPU Processing or left Path Tracer artifact

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Old 2nd January 2017, 01:29   #41819  |  Link
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Might sound redundant but could it be possible to add a profile management layer on top? Currently my use of profiles is ridden by nature of source (res, fps, etc) and display (monitor or TV), the issue is that more and more often source content defines the settings to be used, specially when comparing those for anime or real life content, in this regard conditional profiling doesn't apply, and profile hotkeys are disabled since I already have some conditionals...
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Old 2nd January 2017, 01:52   #41820  |  Link
Q-the-STORM
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Originally Posted by kiwijunglist View Post
Hi nevcairiel (or others)

Source: UHD HDR bluray remux
GPU: 1070
Cable: HDMI
TV: Samsung ua65ks9000

Would you recommend 60Hz 4K 4:4:4 8-bit, or 60Hz10-bit 4:2:2 or something else?
The Video you're playing is most likely 23.967fps....
why not go 23.976Hz 2160p 4:4:4 10bit and get both 10bit and 4:4:4...
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