madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[3x3cUt0r]

Originally Posted by Georgel

Ok, so it seems that I got to make it sort of stable, now... I think I will install the Windows 10 EDU, my university gave me. I wonder if this will make a difference on how good madVR works.

I also wonder if that one is updated to the latest november update, as the changes seem for the better.

You will have to wait 31 days until you get the november update.

[Shiandow]

Originally Posted by j5627429

I scale everything to 4K.

On my setup, I have noticed that for content which is just shy of 1080p resolution (1916x1076), performance is drastically worse than with 1080p or even 720p. This has been the case since at least 89.12, maybe a version or two earlier than that.

I have to disable all (sXBR) image doubling for 1916x1076 to run smoothly at 3820x2160.

What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by Shiandow

What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.

I also notice cropped videos (such as 1916 vs. 1920) cause madVR to work much harder. At 1080p -> 1080p, I was able to disable scaling of these files under zoom control to keep madVR from creeping over the rendering queue. I haven't noticed the same for 720p content, but I haven't been watching for strangely-cropped 720p videos.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Warner306

I also notice cropped videos (such as 1916 vs. 1920) cause madVR to work much harder. At 1080p -> 1080p, I was able to disable scaling of these files under zoom control to keep madVR from creeping over the rendering queue. I haven't noticed the same for 720p content, but I haven't been watching for strangely-cropped 720p videos.

The cost of scaling is a function of number of input pixels and number of output pixels. So given a fixed output resolution, the higher the input res, the more work there is to do.

So keeping that in mind, scaling only a few pixels from 1916 to 1920 is the most expensive scaling operation it could do - especially if it otherwise wouldn't have to scale at all.

If it has to scale anyway, like from 720p -> 1080p, then cropping first doesn't add any extra cost to the scaling.

[j5627429]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

The cost of scaling is a function of number of input pixels and number of output pixels. So given a fixed output resolution, the higher the input res, the more work there is to do.

So keeping that in mind, scaling only a few pixels from 1916 to 1920 is the most expensive scaling operation it could do - especially if it otherwise wouldn't have to scale at all.

If it has to scale anyway, like from 720p -> 1080p, then cropping first doesn't add any extra cost to the scaling.

I am scaling quite a bit anyway for all of my video content, so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1280x718 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1916x1076 -> 3840x2160 = extremely choppy ~1fps playback

The only way I can play back the 1916x1076 file smoothly is to greatly reduce super-xbr image doubling to only double or off (versus octuple that I normally use)

[j5627429]

Originally Posted by Shiandow

What upscaling algorithm do you use? Scaling 3832x2152 to 3840x2160 could be pretty taxing. Maybe your GPU is even running out of memory trying to do that, that would slow things down a lot.

I am using:

Image Upscaling: Lanczos 4-tap
Image Doubling: Octuple luma/chroma super-xbr 150

Zoom Control is set to "disable scaling if image size changes by only...15 lines or less"

GPU is AMD 7970

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by j5627429

I am scaling quite a bit anyway for all of my video content, so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1280x718 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1916x1076 -> 3840x2160 = extremely choppy ~1fps playback

If you are using image doubling, that would make the difference of just using doubling, or using doubling and requiring a second scaling pass afterwards.

[chros]

Originally Posted by djsolidsnake86

... i don't see any disavantage in image quality

There isn't as madshi stated couple of months ago.

Originally Posted by j5627429

... so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If you are using image doubling, that would make the difference of just using doubling, or using doubling and requiring a second scaling pass afterwards.

And the OSD should report this so you can double check it.

[huhn]

the OSD does report it.

[a8213711]

Originally Posted by chros

Try out FSE Old path, maybe you'll get more speed (see below).

As for fullscreen exclusive mode, I have it disabled because the screenshot issue.

Originally Posted by chros

What GPU do you have? laptop or desktop?

My gpu is an integrated in an old laptop!

Originally Posted by chros

Bilinear where? image or luma upscaling? with what content and display resolution?

Bilinear everywhere, and for content of many different types and on a 1080 TV, therefore I can't use a fixed resolution to disable any up/down scale, and suggested to implement a Disable command.

Originally Posted by chros

If you'd disable upscaling, with an 720p contonet on a 1080p screen, the image will be only in the middle of the screen. I don't think that you want to do that

Shouldn't the TV do the upscale and fill the screen? That's what I would like to see (probably will try it in the weekend, but any feedback is still welcome).

Originally Posted by chros

If you used an installer for MPC-HC then it can be a problem. Either you can make a backup of the appropriate regisrty entries before uninstallation or you can leave there the other one. If you just extracted it to a folder then you can delete it.

I did use the installer; I suppose leaving both it's the easiest solution, although not very clean.

Originally Posted by chros

You won't have these problem with the filters (e.g. madvr), you can leave them there.

Actually I have madVR and XySubFilter in the MPC-HC x86 folder, therefore this should be another problem if I want to install MPC-HC x64 and retain their settings. I'm scared to try anything if I don't know what I'm doing. Can I simply move these 2 filter folders on new MPC-HC x64 folder?

Many thanks!

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by j5627429

I am scaling quite a bit anyway for all of my video content, so why is there such a big difference in performance for a near-1080p resolution to 4K versus 1080p?

1920x1080 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1280x718 -> 3840x2160 = smooth playback
1916x1076 -> 3840x2160 = extremely choppy ~1fps playback

The only way I can play back the 1916x1076 file smoothly is to greatly reduce super-xbr image doubling to only double or off (versus octuple that I normally use)

Do you have image quadrupling set to "always"?

In that case when watching 1920x1080 only doubling runs but when watching 1916x1076 both doubling and quadrupling run. Doubling 3832x2152 to 7664x4304 and then downscaling to 3840x2160 takes a lot of performance and is pointless. Set quadrupling to only run with 1.5 or 2x scaling, in fact I would recommend setting doubling and quadrupling to 1.5x scaling, maybe 1.2x if you really like doubling, but always does more harm than good in my opinion.

Doubling or Quadrupling do not run unless the image is upscaled, no matter what you set in "image doubling" quadrupling will never run for 1920x1080 video on a 4K display.

[YxP]

Originally Posted by a8213711

Shouldn't the TV do the upscale and fill the screen? That's what I would like to see (probably will try it in the weekend, but any feedback is still welcome).

If you send 1920x1080 TV 1280x720 signal, then yes, it should fill the screen. I don't know why you would want to do this instead of using lighter players though. I'm guessing whatever good madvr is achieving is lost during TV's processing.

[hannes69]

I found a strange behavior/bug by using the new Radeon Crimson driver. I updated recently the rest of the video software (madVR, LAV filters, MPC HC nightly) so the driver is not certainly the culprit.

GPU: Radeon R7 250
Driver: Radeon Crimson
affected rendering modes: fullscreen modes (both windowed and exlusive), no problem while NOT rendering fullscreen
behavior: all 4 queues + rendering and presenting times jumping wildly, queues partially running empty so dropped frames, decoder queue showing 20-25/24
"remedy": deactivating smoothmotion and/or checking "use 10bit image buffer instead of 16bit" in trade quality for performance section -> normal behavior

Edit:
Reverted now back to Catalyst 15.7.1. Everything ok now. In my case Radeon Crimson seems to be not ok for my system. Furthermore I found out that most of video related settings are completely removed from Control Center. I stay with 15.7.1 meanwhile, was a mistake to install new AMD crap.

Edit2 (10.12.15):
New test with Crimson: new "real" remedy: reducing rendering queues to maximum 21 (was 24 in my case).

[chros]

Originally Posted by a8213711

As for fullscreen exclusive mode, I have it disabled because the screenshot issue.
My gpu is an integrated in an old laptop!

Screenshot??? Use a different player for that functionality or switch to windowed mode in madvr until you take one.
Was FSE Old path faster for you?

Originally Posted by a8213711

Can I simply move these 2 filter folders on new MPC-HC x64 folder?

Unistall them first, move them, them install them again.

[wolfman2791]

Originally Posted by hannes69

I found a strange behavior/bug by using the new Radeon Crimson driver. I updated recently the rest of the video software (madVR, LAV filters, MPC HC nightly) so the driver is not certainly the culprit.

GPU: Radeon R7 250
Driver: Radeon Crimson
affected rendering modes: fullscreen modes (both windowed and exlusive), no problem while NOT rendering fullscreen
behavior: all 4 queues + rendering and presenting times jumping wildly, queues partially running empty so dropped frames, decoder queue showing 20-25/24
"remedy": deactivating smoothmotion and/or checking "use 10bit image buffer instead of 16bit" in trade quality for performance section -> normal behavior

Edit:
Reverted now back to Catalyst 15.7.1. Everything ok now. In my case Radeon Crimson seems to be not ok for my system. Furthermore I found out that most of video related settings are completely removed from Control Center. I stay with 15.7.1 meanwhile, was a mistake to install new AMD crap.

The issue is the "fullscreen exclusive" option. It's not supported on the new AMD driver. Disable that and use windows overlay... then it works for me.

The new driver is 3-5% faster so it's worth trying it out.

[QBhd]

Originally Posted by wolfman2791

The issue is the "fullscreen exclusive" option. It's not supported on the new AMD driver. Disable that and use windows overlay... then it works for me.

The new driver is 3-5% faster so it's worth trying it out.

FSE Works fine for me, so saying it's not supported is a little over the top.

As for the new AMD drivers... I think they are pretty good, still in need of some work (some settings are in the old CCC interface and others in the new interface)... But one thing that is fantastic, the new Custom Resolutions. No need for a separate app like CRU anymore

QB

[aufkrawall]

Well, as I already said, please check the queues in DX11 FSE.

[Francois76l]

Hello Madshi

I have one demand/question:
Many of us are experiencing the same problem: i1d3 (or low end colorimeters) measure our display with a perfect black (accuracy problem) and the result is always a linear gamma from 0 to 100%. The reason is simple: perfect black = infinite contrast ratio but we don't have an oled tv!
As a consequence the blacks are crushed between 0 to approximately 2.5%.
The 17-18 blanking bars are always invisibles after 3dlut creation.

I tried to decrease the gamma @1.25% with videoequalizer v2.06. It works very good (17-18 became visibles again) but it's not compatible with a 3dlut and I can't use this solution.
Do you think it could be possible to create a tool in madvr to modify the gamma curve in realtime after the 3dlut?
The goal is not to make a new gamma curve but only to correct the grayscale with our eyes at very low ire because the i1d3 can't.
A 100 points gamma editor would be really amazing for us. Something like videoequalizer but in madvr, after the 3dlut...
The idea is just to lower the gamma between 0 to 5%. It would be so cool...

I'm not sure if it's clear or if it's the good way to ask but...

Thanks Madshi

[huhn]

Originally Posted by QBhd

FSE Works fine for me, so saying it's not supported is a little over the top.

As for the new AMD drivers... I think they are pretty good, still in need of some work (some settings are in the old CCC interface and others in the new interface)... But one thing that is fantastic, the new Custom Resolutions. No need for a separate app like CRU anymore

QB

flash videos and madVR at the time results in a blue screen for me.
and yeah don't forget disco madVR before the PC crashed.

and AMD calls that "stable"...

[adhara]

Originally Posted by Warner306

I would add image doubling. super-xbr or low values of NNEDI3 luma doubling would improve the image further.

You could also add SuperRes from upscaling refinement to make the image sharper. SuperRes + enhance detail is another possibility.

Hi Warner306,

Thanks for the cookbook in your signature.
I tried to follow it with my 960GTX.

Display: 3840 x 2160p
Medium profiles

With 720p video, got lot of dropped frames with deinterlacing in auto mode. I have to deactivate it in order to get things ok.
How comes ?

regards.