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Old 26th January 2014, 22:43   #22021  |  Link
DragonQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
You´re right, that one was a major oversight by me, didn´t think that madVR would consider == and = as being an equal operation. But at least my second advice is valid.
Proper languages use the same symbol for setting and evaluating variables.
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Old 26th January 2014, 22:44   #22022  |  Link
djfred93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I see. Have you tried going back to 0.86.11 or 0.87.1 after you ran into this problem? Sometimes the OS just gets into a screwed up state. Could you please double check if 0.86.11 or 0.87.1 still work if you go back to them now?
It work on 0.86.11, 0.87.1 and 0.87.3. So that good, thanks.

Edit : And work very good. Now, i can activate debanding on 1080i.

Last edited by djfred93; 26th January 2014 at 22:53.
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Old 26th January 2014, 22:59   #22023  |  Link
TheShadowRunner
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All good here now madshi with 0.87.3, thanks again!
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Old 26th January 2014, 23:30   #22024  |  Link
Deim0s
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madshi,
My problem with 4k video playback (downscaling) was not solved.

If to use the old settings queue:
CPU queue - 16
GPU queue - 8
Win. mode -> backbuffers - 3
MPC-HC all the time crashes.
madVR - log
On version 0.86.11 with these settings work fine (when playback 4k video).

Minimum settings queue needed to MPC-HC did not have crash:
CPU queue - 5
GPU queue - 5
Win. mode -> backbuffers - 3
But when you switch from windowed mode to fullscreen still black screen.
madVR - log

Somebody has a problem with downscaling 4k video except me?
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Old 26th January 2014, 23:44   #22025  |  Link
DarkSpace
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Great work on getting back the deinterlacing performance!
Personally, I had assumed that the D3d/OpenCL interaction with DXVA deinterlacing just cost too much time, but now I can disable profiles again and run everything with OpenCL enabled.
In fact, I just made a small test, and even 1080i with image quadrupling works here (just barely, though). Good work!
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Old 26th January 2014, 23:55   #22026  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djfred93 View Post
It work on 0.86.11, 0.87.1 and 0.87.3. So that good, thanks.

Edit : And work very good. Now, i can activate debanding on 1080i.
Good to hear! Although I'm still not sure why v0.87.2 didn't work for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner View Post
All good here now madshi with 0.87.3, thanks again!
Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deim0s View Post
madshi,
My problem with 4k video playback (downscaling) was not solved.

If to use the old settings queue:
CPU queue - 16
GPU queue - 8
Win. mode -> backbuffers - 3
MPC-HC all the time crashes.
madVR - log
On version 0.86.11 with these settings work fine (when playback 4k video).

Minimum settings queue needed to MPC-HC did not have crash:
CPU queue - 5
GPU queue - 5
Win. mode -> backbuffers - 3
But when you switch from windowed mode to fullscreen still black screen.
madVR - log

Somebody has a problem with downscaling 4k video except me?
Which OS, which GPU?

Can you compare RAM consumption with v0.86.11 and v0.87.3 with your hardware/software, when playing back that 4K clip with 5/5/3 queues? Does v0.87.0 consume more RAM than v0.86.11?

According to the log the decoder sends the first 27 frames, and then simply stops. Probably it crashed or something. Might be some sort of "out of memory" problem. But I'm not sure why v0.87.3 would consume so much more memory than v0.86.11...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpace View Post
Great work on getting back the deinterlacing performance!
Personally, I had assumed that the D3d/OpenCL interaction with DXVA deinterlacing just cost too much time, but now I can disable profiles again and run everything with OpenCL enabled.
In fact, I just made a small test, and even 1080i with image quadrupling works here (just barely, though). Good work!
Nice!
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Old 26th January 2014, 23:59   #22027  |  Link
Asmodian
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I have the same problem, a blank black screen watching 4k video at 2560x1440. I think I have tracked it down.

I reset all settings to default and then changed:
GPU Buffers > 8, I tested using 10-24. This probably changes depending on the card, maybe total video memory?
Full Screen Windowed mode (both the new Win7+ and original, 3-8 back buffers)
Linear light downscaling

If I use FSE, leave the GPU buffers at 8, or do not user LL for downscaling I get a picture. I can toggle the picture black and correct by right clicking to bring up the context window, kicked out of FSE -> black picture, dismiss it so back in FSE -> correct picture.

This is a log from 87.2 where I got a dither failed to create D3D9 surface error going into Full Screen Windowed. I cannot remember the exact wording and I just get a blank screen with 87.3.
MadVR - log.7z
madVR_87.3 - log.7z

Running 3770K, SLI GTX Titans driver version 332.21.
using 4k_QHD_RoastDuck_30p.mp4 test video.
edit: Windows 8.1

With LL downscaling and 24 GPU buffers (3 back buffers FSW, 8 frames in advance FSE) I see 1594MB of video ram used when in FSE and 1704MB of video ram used when in FSW (black).
If I turn down GPU buffers to 10 (back buffers 8) when in FSW I get 1266 MB used without LL (correct picture) or 1351 MB used with LL (black picture).

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 00:43.
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:02   #22028  |  Link
madshi
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@Asmodian, and how does v0.86.11 behave in comparison?
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:09   #22029  |  Link
Deim0s
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madshi,
Quote:
Which OS, which GPU?
My configuration in this message.
Quote:
Can you compare RAM consumption with v0.86.11 and v0.87.3 with your hardware/software, when playing back that 4K clip with 5/5/3 queues? Does v0.87.0 consume more RAM than v0.86.11?
Here I post screenshots of memory consumption. v0.87.* consumes less RAM.
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:10   #22030  |  Link
jkauff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.87.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: blacked out video in Windows XP
* fixed: blacked out video when disabling "present several frames in advance"
Having read all the 0.87 posts, I'm still confused. As a GTX660 owner, is there any reason to upgrade from 0.86? I'm leaning toward holding off until the Nvidia OpenCL problem is worked out.
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:34   #22031  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
@Asmodian, and how does v0.86.11 behave in comparison?
v0.86.11 works with all settings, memory usage is 1660 MB in FSE (LL on) and 1630 MB in FSW (LL on).

Same settings as above, defaults plus:
LL downscaling
24 GPU buffers (28 CPU)

Sorry I edited my original post with more details.

Edit:
GPU buffers at 10, back buffers at 8
FSW, 1175 MB (LL off), 1325 MB (LL on)

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 00:41.
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:35   #22032  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I agree, it's far less important than luma scaling - but I appreciate that madVR does have high quality chroma scaling options available.

Generally I would suggest:
  1. Mitchell-Netravali
  2. Bicubic 75 with the anti-ringing filter enabled
  3. Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter enabled
in order of performance impact and quality. (low to high)
I always appreciate these recommendations I know you've suggested image up- and downscaling settings before as well, but they're lost somewhere in this huge thread. Could you repeat your recommendations for image up- and downscaling in a similar format? I'm just able to use Jinc w/ AR for everything (Catmull-Rom for downscaling) on my desktop (nvidia so no OpenCL for now), but my laptop can't handle that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Having read all the 0.87 posts, I'm still confused. As a GTX660 owner, is there any reason to upgrade from 0.86? I'm leaning toward holding off until the Nvidia OpenCL problem is worked out.
0.87 added a new debanding filter and fixed a bug leading to frame drops. Most of the problems 0.87 introduced should be fixed in 0.87.3, and the OpenCL options won't affect you unless you enable them.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 27th January 2014 at 00:52.
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:55   #22033  |  Link
mindbomb
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I have a question about image doubling(which also applies to the scaling factor requirement). Does doubling mean doubling the total amount of pixels, or doubling both the height and width (quadrupling the total pixels)?
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Old 27th January 2014, 00:56   #22034  |  Link
Asmodian
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@Ver Greeneyes
Here are the results of the discussion as understood by Niyawa:

As I understand their preferences 6233638 prefers less ringing to a bit sharper which is why they prefer Mitchell-Netravali to Bicubic 75. This is of course perfectly reasonable. I hope I am correct as to your reasoning, 6233638.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
I have a question about image doubling(which also applies to the scaling factor requirement). Does doubling mean doubling the total amount of pixels, or doubling both the height and width (quadrupling the total pixels)?
Doubling both the height and width

@madshi
Another note, using v0.87.3 with my normal settings (everything on ) watching 1080p on 1440p I see 2624 MB of video ram used when in FSW.

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 03:51.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:11   #22035  |  Link
mimi123
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Hardware for deep color

Hello!

For about one month I'm trying to send video, from my HTPC, with more than 8 bits per color to my projector. I have tried Nvidia, Ati and Intel graphics (basic models) but without success.

I know my projector is 12 bits capable because I test it with a BD player and works.
I think the problem is the graphics card or the drivers.

My SO is Windows 8 and my favorite player is MPCHC with Madvr, of course.

Can you tell me some cards, with moderate price, to get 10 o more bits?

Very thanks.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:51   #22036  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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Is the problem with dragging the screen to another monitor fixed? It would stop playback and you'd have to open the file again with the player on the second screen for it to play, or it would just stay stopped no matter matter. Pausing and Playing did nothing.
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Old 27th January 2014, 02:07   #22037  |  Link
Qotscha
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I think the performance of error diffusion is quite poor on my computer (Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 13.12). Here is a little comparison:

720p50 to 1080p50:
  • Jinc 4 + AR (Image + chroma), medium deband, random dithering: 91% GPU load, no dropped frames
  • Bilinear (Image + chroma), no deband, error diffusion: ~90% GPU load, a lot of dropped frames (result is about the same with any scaling algorithm)

It seems that also Vyral has these performance issues with 6850:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I haven't tested debanding or NNEDI3 upsampling or upscaling yet, only disabled everything in "Trade quality for performance". However, the rendering time and GPU load increased dramatically (from 12ms to 36ms in rendering time and 10% to 72% in GPU load, ouch).
After further testing, "use random dithering instead of openCL error diffusion" was the culprit.

Is openCL really that demanding ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I've tried to test the new OpenCL features on madVR but, even though I have a powerfull GPU, it seems I can't use any. Therefore, I will stick with Jinc 3 AR and Catmull-Rom AR/LL.
On the other hand, debanding works great with little impact on performance.
In case you need debug logs to improve the performance of OpenCL - D3D9 interop, or whatever the problem is, here is one where 720p50 is scaled to 1680*1050 using error diffusion and otherwise default settings.

Last edited by Qotscha; 27th January 2014 at 02:40.
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Old 27th January 2014, 02:16   #22038  |  Link
djfred93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimi123 View Post
Hello!

For about one month I'm trying to send video, from my HTPC, with more than 8 bits per color to my projector. I have tried Nvidia, Ati and Intel graphics (basic models) but without success.

I know my projector is 12 bits capable because I test it with a BD player and works.
I think the problem is the graphics card or the drivers.

My SO is Windows 8 and my favorite player is MPCHC with Madvr, of course.

Can you tell me some cards, with moderate price, to get 10 o more bits?

Very thanks.
MadVR can't do 10 bit output. A lot of answer is in this thread .
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Old 27th January 2014, 04:06   #22039  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qotscha View Post
720p50 to 1080p50:
  • Jinc 4 + AR (Image + chroma), medium deband, random dithering: 91% GPU load, no dropped frames
  • Bilinear (Image + chroma), no deband, error diffusion: ~90% GPU load, a lot of dropped frames (result is about the same with any scaling algorithm)
.
The use of openCL error diffusion demands too many GPU cycles that I could put to better advantage elsewhere. Simple playback of native 1080P via MadVR at default settings uses 19% GPU while simply enabling openCL error diffusion bumps it up to a steady 68% - and that's with a PCIE 3 2GB HD 7850 (latest Catalyst 13.2 driver pkg), i73770@3.4GH, Windows 7 64bit on a SSD. Display is 40" Sony Bravia (1080P w/10-bit panel) via HDMI 1.3b.

A bit of background... I mostly use MPC-HC, MadVR, LAV, FFDshow (raw), Reclock, AviSynth and AC3 Filter. Viewing/testing consists of analysis of video sample quality utilizing AviSynth(MT) based utilities - I don't watch movies or TV but I love to tweak :-). These samples often exceed 1080P (1920*1080/29.976 progressive) - going up to 4096*2304 DCI-P3.

For the past few weeks I've focused on AviSynth OpenCL variants - notably nnedi3ocl. In my estimation the current MadVR release (87.3) performs similar (within 15% or so) to what I have seen via AviSynth. My take on this particular usage of OpenCL is that it facilitates load balancing across the GPU/CPU while nnedi3 can certainly improve up-scaling quality - you can work wonders with low-rez porn clips :-).

It isn't a free lunch. And it's very heavily GPU dependent - resolution is everything. Up-scaling 854*480P to 1080P vis Interframe2 and/or SVP is about the practical limit on my rig before encountering occasional dropped frames. Note that I simultaneously employ video smoothing (frame interpolation) utilizing frame doubling, sharping and the like as needed. YMMV :-)

I offer-up a sincere thanks to all involved. And Madshi..you are the bomb! :-)

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 27th January 2014 at 05:47. Reason: missing HTML tag.
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Old 27th January 2014, 05:08   #22040  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Can you compare RAM consumption with v0.86.11 and v0.87.3 with your hardware/software, when playing back that 4K clip with 5/5/3 queues? Does v0.87.0 consume more RAM than v0.86.11?
I just noticed this question and figured I could try it.

Using v0.87.3 my system works if I use the defaults with 8 back buffers in FSW, FSE off is the only other thing I have changed.

Everything looks great in all these tests.
4K->1440p 30p

v0.87.3 queues 16/8/3
LL On 1683 MB
LL Off 1525 MB
queues 16/8/8
LL On 1787 MB
LL Off 1617 MB

v0.87.3 queues 16/9/8
LL On 1823 MB
LL Off 1654 MB

16/10/3 (worked this time? )
LL On 1779 MB
LL Off 1609 MB

V0.86.11 queues 16/8/3
LL On 1639 MB
LL Off 1511 MB
queues 16/8/8
LL On 1704 MB
LL Off 1537 MB

I the process of making this list I found something very odd.

Queues 13/13/8 works (good picture) but 13/12/8 gives black screen. 14/13/8 and 15/13/8 give black but 16/13/8 gives a good picture. This seems to be true with LL on or off, 24/22/8
LL Off (2295 MB) works but 23/22/8 doesn't, 23/20/8 does. Very odd; and these exact queue sizes seem to change. Sorry for the lack of good data.
I have tried restarting the player (Zoom Player) between setting the queues as well as restarting the computer but something may be wrong with my testing methodology for this.
Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 05:29.
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