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22nd December 2009, 17:34 | #441 | Link |
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Hi
About the linkin park "reanimation" dvd-audio: I had the same problem as reported by DeadlyFoez. When trying to extract to wav using the "Merge groups" option only, it says the disc is encrypted. If I use the ignore option, it comes with the mlp error. Using the recover option, extraction starts but then hangs. Now comes the surprinsing part: When I do not use any options at all, the extraction immediately starts and finishes without error. So the problems seems to be with the merge option! Using the "Split groups" option also works, so this problem can be worked around easily: The resulting files can be merged e.g. in wavewizard. With this info, maybe somebody can fix this little bug, though it is not a real issue anymore. Many thanks to mommyman and everyone who contributed to this great program! Cheers |
29th March 2010, 10:04 | #442 | Link | |
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This will be because the downmix extraction will be using the built-in downmix - if available and encoded - or else creating it's own from presets. When we encode an MLP lossless file, adding a downmix is an optional thing. It increases the file size, and is a compromise between the surround mix & the necessity for stereo compatibility as not all DVDA players are surround capable or set up for surround so we cannot have a group with just pure 5.1 included. The other solution is so-called "PGC Block" authoring, where there is a dedicated 5.1 stream imported followed by a dedicated stereo stream. The only other method is a downmix. The main surround will probably be close to 0dBFS on L,R, possibly on C, and also possibly close on Ls/Rs. Sum all these into 2 channels and you will clip, so attenuation is required. Recommended values are -6dB on L,R,Ls,Rs and -9dB on centre channels with LFE off. The result will always sound quieter than the surround does.
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29th March 2010, 10:05 | #443 | Link | |
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They tend to freeze solid on a 16:9 DVDA unless they are the later modded versions or firmware fixed versions.
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29th March 2010, 10:16 | #444 | Link | |
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The DVD specs - like Blu Ray - have mandatory components and optional components. In DVD, DTS is optional, as is multichannel LPCM. One gets implemented, the other never did as DVDA was supposed to take over for pure audio discs. The only mandatory LPCM stream on DVD-Video is 16/48 stereo - the rest is optional.
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1st April 2010, 08:50 | #445 | Link | |
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Muxman accept the multichannel waves (even 7.1). Here are (in purple) the accepted bitrates ; To hear the multichannel LPCM on dvd-video, you need a player with analog multichannel output or Hdmi output. And of course a multichannel receiver (or several stereo receivers). If the player has only a stereo analog output and a spdif output, I believe he will make a downmix, or maybe, he will keep only the 2 front channels and will ignore 4 channels on 6 (in 5.1). The fact that we can't send multichannel LPCM on Spdif is probably more a restriction than a technical limitation, because we can send 2.0 LPCM in 96/24, which bitrate is 4608 kbps, the same than 5.1 LPCM in 16/48 ! Last edited by Music Fan; 1st April 2010 at 09:05. |
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2nd April 2010, 09:51 | #446 | Link |
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Hey, Music Fan
Sorry, but I think you will probably find your players analogue outputs are giving you either 1 - Internally (in the player) decoded Dolby Digital 5.1, or 2 - Internally generated 5.1 from an Lt/Rt Surround matrixed stream. 5.1 LPCM does not exist on any DVD-Video discs or players as a stream being decoded off the disc. However, you are of course perfectly correct when you say that SP-DIF or TOSlink can carry the streams - of course it can. TOSlink in ADAT mode can also carry - in D-MUX operation - 8 channels of 24/96 too (SP-DIF CoAxial cannot)
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3rd April 2010, 09:02 | #447 | Link | ||
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Look again at the scheme above. I found it here ; http://www.mpucoder.com/DVD/LimPcmAud.html Quote:
My Pioneer dv-610 sees the sound as LPCM when I click on display. And I was not a downmix sent by my player and converted in 5.1 by my receiver, because it was in direct mode, and there was only 1 speaker playing at the same time. Actually, I recorded my voice 6 times (in 6 mono waves) saying "front right", "center", "rear left", ... To avoid to hear them all together, I simply chose 5 seconds for each channel in a 30 seconds wav, with 25 silent seconds. Then, with the 6 waves (30 seconds each) I made a single 5.1 wave with BeSweet (it also works with WaveWizard). And I made a dvd-video with this single track with Muxman. And it was not a dvd-audio ! I can also read it with my Panasonic DMP-BD35 which doesn't play dvd-audio. If you don't believe it, do it yourself ! The free version of Muxman is enough ; http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/versions.shtml But I guess other programs than Muxman are able to do that. Last edited by Music Fan; 3rd April 2010 at 09:24. |
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3rd April 2010, 22:25 | #448 | Link |
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hi Music Fan.
i know others schemes like you posted above telling seamless possibilities. for more that i tested, i never could get 5.1 LPCM from my 3 players, no one have HDMI or analog multichannel output, only 'Dolby digital 5.1 ch, decoder built in'. i have 2 questions: 1- what player have 5.1 analog multichannel output? (i really don't know any) 2- what 'format' was chosed to burn the LPCM in the burning program? (ISO, DVD-VIDEO, UDF... ??? ) thanks. |
4th April 2010, 04:25 | #449 | Link | |
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raquete wrote:
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2- ISO 9660 ++ UDF 1.02, VIDEO_TS == "yes" HTH. |
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4th April 2010, 08:50 | #450 | Link | ||||
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But a "5.1 built in decoder" generally means that there is a 5.1 analog output, it's weird. Actually, all players have a built in 5.1 decoder, but they downmix the 5.1 to 2.0 for stereo output. But we usually don't call it a 5.1 built in decoder. Quote:
Blu-ray players are also good because they play dvd-video and they have Hdmi ouptut. Quote:
But you have to add at least an image (bmp) to accompany the sound. If you add a video, remember not to exceed 10 Mbps for the total bitrate (Tmpg Dvd Author advises 9848 kbps as a maximum), thus look at the scheme above to see the bitrate of the sound and to calculate the remaining bitrate for the video. A video allows to do fast forward and rewind, which is not possible with a still image. I mean with dvd-video, because we can do fast forward and rewind on still image with dvd-audio. Last edited by Music Fan; 4th April 2010 at 08:55. |
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4th April 2010, 16:36 | #451 | Link |
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clarifications about my 3 players:
all have 5.1 analogs outputs(RCA) and (more) stereo( RCA L&R) outputs, coaxial and toslink. the 5.1 analogs only works only when playing AC3-5.1 because have 'Dolby digital 5.1 ch, decoder built in'. if i play for example DTS-5.1, this 5.1 analogs don't work. is needed to use coaxial or toslink. ..no HDMI...i need a new player. ah..a classical dvd-video architecture to burn? ok then to burn dvd-video, first i need to author the multichannel wave ... but what program can author 5.1 multichannel waves ?!? muxman? (i know a long time and is cool but i never did multichannels waves to burn in dvd-video structure) thanks. edit: hey Mid, thanks. i only saw your post after my questions here. |
5th April 2010, 08:59 | #452 | Link | |
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Don't forget that ac3, Dts and all other compressed formats are decompressed in LPCM before the N/A conversion. It means that all players handle 5.1 LPCM because they need it for the N/A conversion. Actually, with 5.1 LPCM, there is even a step less compared to ac3 5.1 : no need to decompress ac3 in LPCM, it's already in LPCM. Yes, you can try it with the free version. If you don't have a 5.1 LPCM wave, you can test with ac3 or Dts 5.1 that you convert (decompress) in 16/48 5.1 LPCM (with BeSweet, Belight, eac3to, ...). Then you import the multichannel wave in Muxman, but you have to add an image (bmp in 720.480 or 720.576) and enter its duration (the same than the wave). If he doesn't ask the duration, he asks the total number of frames (25 fps in PAL), I don't remember, you will see. |
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5th April 2010, 09:07 | #453 | Link |
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Anyway, I have to add that there is better than this way to put multichannel LPCM on dvd : AVCHD. But you need a Blu-ray player to play this.
AVCHD is better because it's easier to author (with MultiAVCHD) and you can put 96/24 5.1 LPCM ! It works on my Panasonic BD35. I think we can even go up to 192/24 in 7.1 (not 100% certain). Last edited by Music Fan; 5th April 2010 at 09:09. |
5th April 2010, 11:19 | #454 | Link | |||
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this outputs works sending 5.1 LPCM only when have AC3 because the 'built in' AC3 decoder 'decode' the AC3 and send the LPCM to this analogs outputs. When another 'format' is in the AC3 'built in' decoder, the ouput of this decoder mess the signal because only decode AC3, not others formats. it's a AC3 decoder buitl in only, not for others formats.(a pity). others users had told me seamless like you some months ago but i got messeds results... if i good remember seems that i have all channels summeds in the left channel only, i'm not sure now. but in the 3 players happens exactly the same. Quote:
i can do 'my own' 5.1 upmix for tests. Quote:
i need to work inside my boreds limitations. thank you Music Fan! |
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7th April 2010, 17:17 | #455 | Link | |
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And why do my player accept it ? Its manual doesn't mention it, but it works anyway. |
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7th April 2010, 17:36 | #456 | Link | ||
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i need to try with muxman and burn as you told to hear what happens. your player is capable because is new and mine 3 are olders, more than 3 to 5 years old. features between players change from label to label and model to model. the manual of each of my players tell about this 5.1 analogs outputs working with AC3 only, how to use and plug, no deep details and nothing about other format. i will do a new test using muxman and maybe i have better luck. cheers! |
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24th April 2010, 20:13 | #457 | Link |
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Hi guys, I studied these very long discussion along the last days, because I got some DVD-Audios last. I own an ONKYO DV-S757 player for about 10 years, but never had a DVD-A to tryout these function (lol).
At first I want to say sorry, if my english is not correct and fully understandable, because I'm a German. Now to my experiences with these DVD-A's. I have four DVD-A's for my experiements: LA Women - Doors; A Night At The Opera - Queen; Greendale - Neil Young; Shaman - Santana - every disc seems to be very different from the other. I ripped them with DVDFab 7 - burned the Doors and put it in the ONKYO - it plays but watermark hits back after 30s and the player stops (as well known here). I tried to rip with clone-mode, with and without original IFO - no difference. All DVD's played in a DVD-Video-only player (HDD-recorder), but only the DVD-Section of course. Because I read about different players in this thread, that don't care about watermarks, my ONKYO is about 10 years old and a BluRay-player also would be a nice thing, I decided to buy a new one. Now I own an OPPO BDP 83 - and so I have good news for all DVD-A fans - the player has NO watermark dedection!!! And it is a fine DVD- and BluRay-player too. The Doors-DVD-A copies work very well. Now i did the same with the GREENDALE - clone-mode - and nothing happens! ROOT MENU appears in the display but no picture or sound. Now i tried out the rips with ShaPLAY, the Doors played well, but the GREENDALE not. ShaPLAY scans all the tracks for a second or so, but no track was played. Now I tried another method to rip it with DVDFab - Full Disk with VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS option. After this I loaded them into NERO 7 and burned an image, mounted it with DEAMON and tried to play with ShaPLAY again. It works very fine! On this rip no DVDAUDIO.MKB is present! I burned it on DVD and it works well in the OPPO. Both of the other DVD-A's work with the DVDAUDIO.MKB present (clone-mode) like the Doors. Very strange this all. I will keep trying on when I get more DVD-A's. I hope, that some of my experiences are helpful for you. At last a question from me, maybe someone have an advice. I've also tried to use my Creative Software DVD-A player for playback the DVD-A's on PC. But this damned prog didn't work at all - says an obscure CTRTheme.dll is missing (but this file is, where it have to be; update doesn't help) - everybody around knowing this problem? |
25th April 2010, 09:14 | #458 | Link |
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Are you sure it's CTRTheme.dll and not CTTheme.dll ?
Look at this topic ; http://forums.creative.com/t5/Genera...rror/m-p/91750 |
25th April 2010, 14:22 | #460 | Link | |
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Thanks for this advice, but I know this thread, doesn't help. |
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