Has anyone used X264 to produce a replicated BD title?

[Bigmango]

Originally Posted by Chengbin

4 ref frames=good
3 ref frames + b-pyramid=good
4 ref frames + b-pyramid=not good.

Ok, thanks.

What is the better suggestion quality wise: "4 ref frames" or "3 ref frames + b-pyramid" ?

[popper]

what is the point of using more than ref=3 today anyway ?, is there really any quality to be gained in your generic SD (PIP) or HD live action footage.

[shon3i]

Originally Posted by Chengbin

4 ref frames=good
3 ref frames + b-pyramid=good
4 ref frames + b-pyramid=not good.

Sorry but b-pyramid in x264 are not good at all, because almost always break DBP. 4 ref frames + b-pyramid is impossible combination, while 3 ref frames + b-pyramid should be fine but with normal b-pyramid which x264 dosen't have. 4ref's can be aslo unsafe in x264 only because can aslo break DBP (from earlier testing) So 3refs are only safe now with current x264 builds, until devs fix things.

So, what is the truth behind this? Does B-pyramid still break some player compatibility or not?

Yea, still is broken even in new version.

[CruNcher]

Originally Posted by popper

what is the point of using more than ref=3 today anyway ?, is there really any quality to be gained in your generic SD (PIP) or HD live action footage.

mostly not but people generally believe that higher numbers in OPSNR or SSIM have a big major effect on their viewing experience and the more the better
Creating mass of content that not all of the current Device Generation is able to playback, though essentially it's not a bad thing it brings manufactures under pressure to deliver the performance from their Hardware user expect to play their "Home Made" Content on
In the Standalone area we already hit that mostly next will be the low power Mobile area which still struggles with what the consumers expect (and imho not all the complexity user put in their encodes is really always necessary but they are used to it already and the industry needs to comply). It will be really interesting to see how this might could push again lower complexity (Old Generation Codecs) once more as their complexity is pretty much playable on every Device that's gonna come out so the need of trans-coding is virtually gone for those, H.264 didn't reach that yet and most probably will take another Year end of 2010 till that goal will be reached.

So you can say we reached a Transcoding free consumer world for ASP and VC-1 now (but not everywhere used like in Sat Broadcast), though H.264 will take another year in that

[dvdboy]

Unfortunately, I'm still not having much luck - now using a 23.976fps file to rule out possible interlace compatibilities.

My MeGui configuration line looks like this:

program --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 2 --bitrate 18000 --stats ".stats" --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 23000 --qcomp 0.5 --me dia --subme 2 --partitions none --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --output "output" "input"

I downloaded jeeb's build 1222 and placed the x264.exe file into the tools directory of MeGUI, overwriting the existing x264.exe.

I'm assuming I'm missing something fundamentally basic here - I even knocked 1Mbps off the Max Bitrate hoping to give an extra room for error, but I'm still getting the same Buffer Underflow error in Scenarist.

Any suggestions?

[shon3i]

You can try to reduce vbv-buffer to 29000 or even to 24000 or less. Aslo can you cut 50 mb sample and post here to see where is problem. Aslo you can use tools like Elecard Buffer Analyser to see where underflow occur.

[kemuri-_9]

since mb-tree and vbv-lookahead are used in that command line,
the problem could likely be related to this

[Dark Shikari]

Originally Posted by kemuri-_9

since mb-tree and vbv-lookahead are used in that command line,
the problem could likely be related to this

It's not related unless x264 prints a "VBV buffer underflow" message.

[benwaggoner]

...and as promised for testing this scenario, here's 7zip Lagarith YV12 segments of Match Point.

A rather more typcial trailer than the insanely fast cutting, high grain, and constantly moving camera of "The Island." But it's chock full of fades.

http://cid-bee3c9ac9541c85b.skydrive.../Match%20Point

[Audionut]

Can someone please provide a checksum.
I'm having problems extracting again.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by benwaggoner

...and as promised for testing this scenario, here's 7zip Lagarith YV12 segments of Match Point.

A rather more typcial trailer than the insanely fast cutting, high grain, and constantly moving camera of "The Island." But it's chock full of fades.

http://cid-bee3c9ac9541c85b.skydrive.../Match%20Point

Is there an automated way to download all those files? Downloading 38 files by hand isn't fun

Unfortunately the overview page that shows all files doesn't exhibit proper download URL's, so DTA and friends can't help here...

Can't you ask Xiph to put it on their http://media.xiph.org/ server or at least put it on a service like Rapidshare ???

[Lyris]

Can anyone here share the secrets for encoding compliant Secondary Video streams?

All I have so far is that the frame rate has to match the primary video, and since we're using AVC, the secondary video must be AVC also. And the max bit rate can't go above 8mbps, but this is talking heads stuff in SD resolution, so 2mbps should do it fine...

Can anyone fill me in on the VBV buffer size? Number of B frames? Keyframe interval?

[dvdboy]

OK, I'm in the process of uploading two clips to my skydrive account.

1 is The Island trailer that Ben posted, encoded with x264 build 1222. This muxes well in Scenarist 5.1.3.
Download x264 encode her --> http://cid-4574e83941533037.skydrive...0x264%20-%20BD

2 is a short clip from a German H.264 broadcast that I have parsed into AVISynth using DGAVCIndex, created a Lagarith YV12 avi file with VirtuaDub and the parsed that into MeGUI using an AVISynth script. This does not mux in Scenarist 5.1.3, giving me a buffer underflow error. This has been the file I have been trying to encode with at all manner of settings.

At this time I can't understand why one AVS source file should work, and another should not - both encode without errors.

The MeGUI config line for The Island is:

program --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 2 --bitrate 18000 --stats ".stats" --slow-firstpass --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --subme 2 --partitions all --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --output "output" "input"

The MeGUI config line for AVC_TEST is:

program --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 2 --bitrate 18000 --stats ".stats" --slow-firstpass --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --subme 2 --partitions all --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --output "output" "input"

In the end, it didn't matter if I dropped the max buffer size or max bitrates as the above encode for the Island worked fine, but nothing worked for the other file.

I'm assuming that for an x264 setting, the above is pretty 'basic' as I'm seeing compression artifacts over the green opening slate - I'll try automated 3 pass to see if that makes any difference, otherwise what do people suggest? Stoopid n00b question, but whenever I've done a 3 pass with MeGui before it always asks me to overwrite the 2nd pass with the 3rd pass - is this correct? Is there a way to out the 2 passes seperately? Would I ever need to do that?

Many Thanks

DVD-BOY

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR

Is there an automated way to download all those files? Downloading 38 files by hand isn't fun

Sorry. I did it the way that was easiest for me, not for you .

Can't you ask Xiph to put it on their http://media.xiph.org/ server or at least put it on a service like Rapidshare ???

I think it's fine to post it where you like. Dreamworks provided it under terms where any encoded version of it can be freely used for compression tests and other demos. I just can't share the actual DPX files out.

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by dvdboy

I'm assuming that for an x264 setting, the above is pretty 'basic' as I'm seeing compression artifacts over the green opening slate - I'll try automated 3 pass to see if that makes any difference, otherwise what do people suggest?

Oh, and as for that, the slate is pretty noisy, and in a very codec-annoying way. I thought about rendering out a clean new one, but heck, this is for codec testing .

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by benwaggoner

I think it's fine to post it where you like. Dreamworks provided it under terms where any encoded version of it can be freely used for compression tests and other demos. I just can't share the actual DPX files out.

I was hoping that you could upload it to a better place. Preferably a place where it can be downloaded in one piece, so I could run the download over night

With my 128 kbit/s connection (upstream) it would take far too long to upload a file of that size

BTW: I downloaded the first three parts - just for test. And both, 7-Zip and WinRAR, refuse to open the archive with "unspecified error".

At least with RAR you can open multi-volume archives, even if you don't have all volumes (yet). So is anything wrong with my download or is that normal?

[multimediaman]

With ffv1+flac in mkv that trailer size shrinks to 1.7 GB

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by multimediaman

With ffv1+flac in mkv that trailer size shrinks to 1.7 GB

Feel free .

[shon3i]

@dvdboy, did x264 show VBV underflow during encode? since you use MeGUI for encoding check the log

[dvdboy]

Originally Posted by shon3i

@dvdboy, did x264 show VBV underflow during encode? since you use MeGUI for encoding check the log

I was ready to report back that it hadn't, when I noticed this:

[Information] Log
-[Information] Versions
--[NoImage] MeGUI Version : 0.3.1.1053
--[NoImage] OS : Windows XP Professional x86 SP2 (5.1.131072.2600)
--[NoImage] Latest .Net Framework installed
-[Information] Hardware
--[NoImage] CPU : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz
-[Information] Log for job18 (video, SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs -> )
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:28:57] Started handling job
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:28:57] Preprocessing
--[NoImage] Job commandline: "C:\Program Files\megui\tools\x264\x264.exe" --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 1 --bitrate 18000 --stats "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.stats" --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --me dia --subme 2 --partitions none --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --output NUL "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs"
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:28:58] Encoding started
--[NoImage] Standard output stream
--[NoImage] Standard error stream
---[NoImage] avis [info]: 1920x1080 @ 23.98 fps (193 frames)
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
---[NoImage] x264 [warning]: VBV bitrate (24000) > level limit (20000)
---[NoImage] x264 [warning]: VBV buffer (30000) > level limit (25000)
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: profile Main, level 4.0
---[NoImage]
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice I:11 Avg QP:13.67 size:138864
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice P:58 Avg QP:15.22 size:113580
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice B:124 Avg QP:16.75 size: 73611
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 2.7% 6.6% 37.9% 52.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 65.8% 0.0% 34.2%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 53.1% 0.0% 0.0% P16..4: 29.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% skip:17.9%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 19.6% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 28.0% 0.0% 0.0% direct:26.4% skip:26.0% L0:32.8% L1:22.1% BI:45.1%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:97.6% temporal:2.4%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra:75.4% 91.1% 79.5% inter:36.9% 42.8% 9.4%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: kb/s:17136.4
---[NoImage] encoded 193 frames, 5.90 fps, 17136.50 kb/s
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:31] Postprocessing
---[Information] Deleting intermediate files
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:31] Job completed
-[Information] Log for job19 (video, SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs -> small_test.264)
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:31] Started handling job
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:31] Preprocessing
--[NoImage] Job commandline: "C:\Program Files\megui\tools\x264\x264.exe" --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 3 --bitrate 18000 --stats "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.stats" --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --subme 2 --partitions all --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --aud --output "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.264" "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs"
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:31] Encoding started
--[NoImage] Standard output stream
--[NoImage] Standard error stream
---[NoImage] avis [info]: 1920x1080 @ 23.98 fps (193 frames)
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.0
---[NoImage]
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice I:11 Avg QP:14.06 size:132101
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice P:58 Avg QP:15.03 size:126728
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice B:124 Avg QP:16.61 size: 76492
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 2.7% 6.6% 37.9% 52.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 56.3% 19.6% 24.1%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 29.3% 24.7% 7.7% P16..4: 12.2% 4.3% 2.9% 0.6% 0.5% skip:17.6%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 19.3% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 27.1% 2.6% 2.1% direct:23.4% skip:25.6% L0:31.7% L1:21.6% BI:46.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:23.3% inter:14.4%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:85.5% temporal:14.5%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra:76.5% 91.5% 79.3% inter:35.5% 42.8% 9.8%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: kb/s:18175.5
---[NoImage] encoded 193 frames, 8.41 fps, 18175.54 kb/s
--[Information] Final statistics
---[NoImage] Video Bitrate Desired: 18000 kbit/s
---[NoImage] Video Bitrate Obtained (approximate): 18175 kbit/s
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:54] Postprocessing
---[Information] Deleting intermediate files
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:54] Job completed
-[Information] Log for job20 (video, SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs -> small_test.264)
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:54] Started handling job
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:58] Preprocessing
--[NoImage] Job commandline: "C:\Program Files\megui\tools\x264\x264.exe" --profile high --level 4 --preset fast --pass 3 --bitrate 18000 --stats "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.stats" --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 2 --b-adapt 2 --direct auto --ref 1 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 30000 --vbv-maxrate 24000 --qcomp 0.5 --subme 2 --partitions all --trellis 0 --no-mixed-refs --mvrange 511 --nal-hrd --aud --sar 1:1 --aud --output "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.264" "F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\SOURCE_lag_YV12.avs"
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:29:58] Encoding started
--[NoImage] Standard output stream
--[NoImage] Standard error stream
---[NoImage] avis [info]: 1920x1080 @ 23.98 fps (193 frames)
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using SAR=1/1
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 Cache64
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.0
---[NoImage]
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice I:11 Avg QP:14.07 size:131778
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice P:58 Avg QP:15.03 size:126953
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: slice B:124 Avg QP:16.58 size: 76980
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 2.7% 6.6% 37.9% 52.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 56.5% 20.0% 23.5%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 29.4% 24.9% 7.4% P16..4: 12.2% 4.3% 3.0% 0.6% 0.5% skip:17.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 19.4% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 27.2% 2.5% 2.0% direct:23.4% skip:25.5% L0:32.0% L1:21.3% BI:46.7%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:23.5% inter:14.4%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:84.7% temporal:15.3%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra:76.7% 91.6% 79.5% inter:35.7% 43.0% 9.9%
---[NoImage] x264 [info]: kb/s:18245.0
---[NoImage] encoded 193 frames, 8.25 fps, 18245.07 kb/s
--[Information] Final statistics
---[NoImage] Video Bitrate Desired: 18000 kbit/s
---[NoImage] Video Bitrate Obtained (approximate): 18245 kbit/s
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:30:21] Postprocessing
---[Information] Deleting intermediate files
----[Information] [25/08/2009 23:30:21] Successfully deleted F:\WORKING_FILES\LAGARITH_SOURCE\small_test.stats
--[Information] [25/08/2009 23:30:21] Job completed

So does x264 believe the buffer / bitrate limits to be different to what was posted earlier in this thread, or did I misread your earlier post:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...&postcount=106

...tbc