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Old 28th November 2016, 17:32   #40901  |  Link
ashlar42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Fair enough. So you'd also like super-xbr to stay (or rather come back)?


Yes, I think we really do need some good compression artifact reducer.
Personally I think that the former should depend on the latter. When/if a good compression artifact emerges we could probably do without super-xbr. Till then... I'd keep it in.
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Old 28th November 2016, 17:42   #40902  |  Link
Crimson Wolf
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NVIDIA driver 376.09 is out and it seems to fix the low power mode on optimal and adaptive power settings on my GTX980. YMMV.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:15   #40903  |  Link
JarrettH
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Not sure why it's a lot faster for you, it was only supposed to be slightly faster. But I won't complain.
To give you some idea, I am running ngu-med with downscale quality medium on a GeForce 550 Ti and Core 2 Duo E6600. Before I had to make a rule to limit ngu to a maximum frame height of 600 pixels. SuperRes covered the >600 pixels because ngu was not fast enough. Now I deleted the SuperRes rule because ngu is fast enough for any 720p to 1080p. The only setup difference I see is in downscaling (catmull prior versus bicubic150AR now, but that's hardly a difference)

Here's a random capture of worst case (25 fps, 1280x720). It's not dropping frames, I was just messing about in and out of full screen.



Most of the time it's in the range of 24 - 30 ms depending on frame height.

Last edited by JarrettH; 28th November 2016 at 18:17.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:24   #40904  |  Link
Razoola
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Where has the image doubling options gone, I cannot find them anywhere now.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:29   #40905  |  Link
Crimson Wolf
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Originally Posted by Crimson Wolf View Post
NVIDIA driver 376.09 is out and it seems to fix the low power mode on optimal and adaptive power settings on my GTX980. YMMV.
Well, spoke too soon. VP9 1080p60 stuck at lower power mode... both optimal and adaptive.

Back to max power.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:29   #40906  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
Where has the image doubling options gone, I cannot find them anywhere now.
Go "image upscaling" and select NNEDI3 or NGU.

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=40816

Last edited by sneaker_ger; 28th November 2016 at 18:32.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:40   #40907  |  Link
Razoola
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Yea I read that but did not understand that the page was removed totally. Ok I found where the options are now. Is there any reason why the 'chroma quality' drop down box is greyed out when NGU is enabled and is only available when NNEDI3 is used?
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:46   #40908  |  Link
makakam
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With the newest madvr version and my gtx960 I get better rendering times along with NGU very high (chroma upscaling) than I had with NGU high on version 0.91.0 Great!

Last edited by makakam; 28th November 2016 at 18:57.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:47   #40909  |  Link
Gagorian
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Originally Posted by Betroz View Post
@ madshi

I have tried the newest madVr version and I miss the ability to set the upscaling settings like before. With the max awailable NGU settings, it does'nt fully utilize my GTX 1080 card anymore. This is my settings (with Chroma Upscaling set to NGU-VeryHigh) :



Here is a OSD screen of a 480p, 29 fps clip :



Max 8.34ms rendering... I could have used much higher settings, but with newest madvr, that is not possible.

Here is a OSD screen of a 720p, 23 fps clip :



Same here. Am I missing something here? My image quality was better with 0.91.1 version of madvr with my (higher) settings there.
What settings were you using that were higher quality? The idea of absolutely maxing out the settings just so the GPU is under higher load doesn't seem very useful. Neither does that necessarily provide any discernible difference in image quality.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:48   #40910  |  Link
MS-DOS
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madshi, anti-ringing checkbox in image downscaling is greyed out for me. Switching to chroma upscaling and back makes it active until I close the settings window.
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Old 28th November 2016, 18:56   #40911  |  Link
bitterman
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@madshi

In "Chroma upscaling" the default setting is now "Bicubic60" while it was 75 before.

Why did this change? Is it better to leave it at 60 now?

Thanks.
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Old 28th November 2016, 19:00   #40912  |  Link
StinDaWg
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Originally Posted by MS-DOS View Post
madshi, anti-ringing checkbox in image downscaling is greyed out for me. Switching to chroma upscaling and back makes it active until I close the settings window.
Noticed this too.
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Old 28th November 2016, 19:26   #40913  |  Link
Betroz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagorian View Post
What settings were you using that were higher quality? The idea of absolutely maxing out the settings just so the GPU is under higher load doesn't seem very useful. Neither does that necessarily provide any discernible difference in image quality.
With verson 0.91.1 I was using NGU-High for both Chroma Upscaling and image doubling/quadruple, SSIM2D100AR for downscaling and JincAR for image upscaling. Overkill maybe, but it was sharper and rendertime was low enough.

I prefer to have the option to choose what is used. I do not want to use Bicubic60 AR for any luma upscaling. Well I did notice a differense in IQ with my 480p videos. I reverted back to version 0.90.24 for the time being, and my trusted and loved NNEDI3 settings
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Last edited by Betroz; 28th November 2016 at 19:29.
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Old 28th November 2016, 19:54   #40914  |  Link
Schwartz
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Originally Posted by Backflash View Post
I've been of same opinion, what you need to do is remove sharpeners superres, some antiblaot settings, everything in image enchantment and image refinement except add grain and maybe thin edges. And it looks without artifact and sharp enough.
NGU conflicts with a lot of things like that creating artifacts. Play with settings more.
I don't use image enhancers -at all-. I only run sXBR 50 for chroma, sXBR 75 for image doubling, then Mitchell for upscaling. Which is a pretty balanced combo that produces softer images with very muted artifacts. IMO, if an algorithm 'overshoots' and then needs to be fixed afterwards through these settings, it's not as good as an algo that doesn't. But take that with a grain of salt.

NGU still oversharpens noticeably on mid-quality SD content. I don't want to resort to enhancements to mess with the image, I'd like to use a clean image doubler instead. But by your argument, I'm already doing it right and NGU should do well. It's simply too harsh of an upscaler.

Last edited by Schwartz; 28th November 2016 at 19:57.
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Old 28th November 2016, 19:59   #40915  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by Crimson Wolf View Post
NVIDIA driver 376.09 is out and it seems to fix the low power mode on optimal and adaptive power settings on my GTX980. YMMV.
Still prevents upclocking here with borderless window + opened Firefox at the same time with "optimal performance" for MPC.
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Old 28th November 2016, 20:10   #40916  |  Link
omarank
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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Well, I use CR AR LL to downscale doubled 720p@1080p and SSIM2D100LL+50%AB to downscale SD, this isn't possible anymore?

Why not using the "image downscaling" settings when downscaling doubled upscale?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
Not sure I'm crazy about the limited presets for downscaling after image doubling either. I always used AR+LL for downscaling, but you are saying with these presets that LL is "wrong" or that it is "placebo"? I can see the difference between LL on and off, especially with white text, but I don't know which is "correct". I thought the consensus was that you were supposed to use LL for downscaling?
I too have been using Catmull-Rom AR LL for downscaling after 720p to 1080p doubling, with previous madVR builds. Bicubic150 or SSIM1D look too sharp to my eyes in some cases.

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Originally Posted by tFWo View Post
Power users end up disappointed with the lack of options (compared to the earlier builds) and normal users never have enough knowledge to not be confused with the remaining options.
I agree.

I would want to choose the upscaling algorithm to be used after image doubling for further upscaling to the target resolution. That algorithm may also be used for upscaling to lower scaling factors which don’t activate the selected image doubling algorithm. For instance, if NNEDI3 or NGU is selected in upscaling settings to be used, say, when scaling factor is 1.5x or bigger, Bicubic60 AR is used for upscaling to less than 1.5x scale factor whereas I would want to use Jinc there.

Last edited by omarank; 28th November 2016 at 20:23.
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Old 28th November 2016, 20:12   #40917  |  Link
Neo-XP
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Reverting back to v0.91.1, because I can't set the luma to > NGU-med < Lanczos3 AR anymore. I was the best quality I could get with my CG. The new luma > NGU-high < SSim 1D100 AR produce a lot more of noise and artefacts.

NGU is epic to upscale FHD content to UHD when adding grain. Best quality with very little artifacts.

Edit : same with Chroma, now we get predefined choices when using NGU. I thought the "automatic" quality selection used the settings from the already defined algorithms in "chroma upscaling", "image downscaling" and "image upscaling" menus. That would make more sense and allow more customization. I don't know what "automatic" stands for there, but if you want to keep it, why not add a "user defined" choice for advanced users ?

Last edited by Neo-XP; 28th November 2016 at 21:27. Reason: explaination
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Old 28th November 2016, 20:22   #40918  |  Link
cork_OS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
KNLMeansCL is a good denoiser, I think, but I'm not sure it's the right algo for compression artifact removal.
Well, KNLMeansCL used in Oyster (compression artifacts suppressor). Oyster itself is extremely slow, but maybe it can be used as concept or reference like waifu2x.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if this was perhaps a little higher on madshi's todo list. I have no doubt we'll see something in future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matching_Mole View Post
I agree with you, a good deblocker (either from avisynth or integrated in Madvr), is now the last missing part to achieve a perfect playback chain.
It seems that the madshi heard us.

Last edited by cork_OS; 28th November 2016 at 20:22. Reason: fixed typo
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Old 28th November 2016, 20:33   #40919  |  Link
JarrettH
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If you choose downscale quality: low, madshi has left you with bilinear, which should hide source artifacts. I think he chose this intentionally to satisfy the SD people.
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Old 28th November 2016, 20:38   #40920  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Ok, I probably have been lead a bit astray by paranoia.
To put it short: I'm fine with the new doubling dialogue, turns out it quadruples the lighttower picture when setting NGU to always activate as supersampling (which is no problem since the setting is only for a profile with high scaling factor).

All the changes of the latest build together allow me to do luma NGU high scaling + chroma NGU low + SSIM for 1080p -> WQHD with my 1070, which is a very good thing.
Edit: Talking about 60fps, ofc.

Last edited by aufkrawall; 28th November 2016 at 20:45.
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

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