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Old 23rd January 2018, 20:54   #48641  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Most definitely running out of power to decode them. High-bitrate HEVC UHD streams require quite a lot of CPU power to decode, and your graphics card is also too old to assist in that process, so yeah. Not enough performance.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 21:39   #48642  |  Link
mclingo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braum View Post
When I'm playing c.....
this card, (a) I doubt this card supports 2160p output and if it does you will only get 23,976hz

(b) has no HEVC hardware decoding.

So your cpu is not only crunching through decoding HEVC but also downscaling as well.

IMHO - Best option is to pickup a cheap 4k card, the cheapest you will find used is the RX 460 or Nvidia 1030. Both should play these movies fine with madvr settings at default.

You cpu is ivy bridge so no HEVC hardware decode on there either i'm afraid.

Last edited by mclingo; 24th January 2018 at 01:06.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 22:53   #48643  |  Link
Braum
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Most definitely running out of power to decode them. High-bitrate HEVC UHD streams require quite a lot of CPU power to decode, and your graphics card is also too old to assist in that process, so yeah. Not enough performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclingo View Post
this card, (a) I doubt this card supports 2160p output and if it does you will only get 23,976hz

(b) has not HEVC hardware decoding.

So your cpu is not only crunching through decoding HEVC but also downscaling as well.

IMHO - Best option is to pickup a cheap 4k card, the cheapest you will find used is the RX 460 or Nvidia 1030. Both should play these movies fine with madvr settings at default.

You cpu is ivy bridge so no HEVC hardware decode on there either i'm afraid.
Indeed, the four threads of my cpu are at 100% utilization @4.41Ghz, I should have thought about it
The GPU is doing nothing. Well it's time for an upgrade !

Thank you for your answer !
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Old 24th January 2018, 03:38   #48644  |  Link
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* "remove compression artifacts" now always runs as part of NGU (if possible)

Am I the only one who doesn't like this change? Can't this feature inadvertently soften or smear the image? (My philosophy is that imperfections in the image should be left alone if it is part of the source.)
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Old 24th January 2018, 04:00   #48645  |  Link
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You still have to tick to enable 'remove compression artifacts' and be running NGU (sharp only still I believe) it's just there's no option to run it separately like there used to, which makes sense as it's basically free with NGU.

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1) How does NGU Sharp + the new lowest RCA strength 1 look to you? Maybe NGU Sharp (only High and Very High) should always run with RCA strength 1 now, even if RCA is turned off? Or is it still better to allow NGU Sharp + RCA off?
Best to keep it as something you enable, based on what I've seen even at 1 it ever so slightly softens the picture although one could argue this would be almost imperceptible it doesn't seem to offer much if any benefit IMO.
If it only targeted what is humanly seen as "artifacts" then it wouldn't be a problem, personally I'd find deblocker + derainbow algos more useful. In what situations does RCA offer it's best results? Anyone got any screenshots or sample to share to see it in action?

Last edited by ryrynz; 24th January 2018 at 05:02.
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Old 24th January 2018, 10:01   #48646  |  Link
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Yes. You first select a standard setting which offers 12 bit color. Then, when madvr switches modes to your custom setting (say 4K@23), it will use 12 bit color. When using HDMI 2.0, 12 bit color is not supported in 4K50 or 4K60 modes. However, the NVIDIA interface will allow you to choose 12 bit color for these modes. If you select 12 bit color for either mode, it will still use 8 bit at 4K50/60 because that is all that the HDMI connection will allow, but when you switch modes to 4K30 or below, it will use 12 bit color.
Not sure that's true, if 4k = 3840x2160, I sure can use 12 bit @50-60 hz with chroma set to @4:2:0 with GTX 960 and GT 1030...are you saying that this is not possible if you make a custom resolution?

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madshi,

Would you mind clarifying how to go about generating a 3D LUT for BT.2020 content mastered to the DCI-P3 colorspace (basically all UHD Blu-Rays thus far)? You mentioned before that DCI-P3 within a BT.2020 container is basically just DCI-P3. However, if I try to generate a 3DLUT for DCI-P3, wouldn't that result in wrong colors since my projector can only accept BT.2020?
My understanding is that you don't calibrate to DCI-P3 with Bt.2020 content, you always do BT.2020 LUT conversion to your screen capabilities, unless you truly have content that's DCI-P3 and that doesn'r really exist afaik...the conversion from DCI-P3 to BT.2020 or XYZ for cinema is done post-grading...there are no official DCI-P3 files

Last edited by mytbyte; 24th January 2018 at 10:16.
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Old 24th January 2018, 10:13   #48647  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Not sure that's true, if 4k = 3840x2160, I sure can use 12 bit @50-60 hz with chroma set to @4:2:0 with GTX 960 and GT 1030
You never want to set Chroma to 4:2:0 though, its like the worst choice for quality. Always prefer 4:4:4/RGB in 8-bit over some 4:2:0 mode in 12-bit.
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Old 24th January 2018, 12:35   #48648  |  Link
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You never want to set Chroma to 4:2:0 though, its like the worst choice for quality. Always prefer 4:4:4/RGB in 8-bit over some 4:2:0 mode in 12-bit.
Where I agree in principle I honestly can't see any difference at all in real world viewing on my 4k setup and having everything in the chain set as 4:2:0 just makes everything more simple as you're not left wondering if everything is switching properly between 444 and 420 when you are playing 4k HDR vs 4k vs 4k SDR, everything just plays using the same settings.

I dont doubt i'm losing something somewhere but convenience wins out on this occasion, however, if someone could point to a real world clip where I could definitely see a difference i may change my mind.
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Old 24th January 2018, 12:56   #48649  |  Link
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madshi, I see you explain how zoom control doesn't work when using D3D11 decoding in LAV Filters, I've also discovered that hardware deinterlacing through madVR doesn't work as well (when using 3D11 decoding).

Is this something that's going to change in the future or are there insurmountable obstacles stopping that?
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Old 24th January 2018, 15:52   #48650  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Clammerz View Post
Advanced media players should be able to handle your zooming requirements. Zooming is usually controlled by the media player.
I'm specifically using the zoom function in MadVR because of the superior scaling algorithms compared to media players. it does the job well, except for zooming away top and bottom bars which I would prefer it did not do
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Old 24th January 2018, 17:13   #48651  |  Link
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Where I agree in principle I honestly can't see any difference at all in real world viewing on my 4k setup and having everything in the chain set as 4:2:0 just makes everything more simple as you're not left wondering if everything is switching properly between 444 and 420 when you are playing 4k HDR vs 4k vs 4k SDR, everything just plays using the same settings.

I dont doubt i'm losing something somewhere but convenience wins out on this occasion, however, if someone could point to a real world clip where I could definitely see a difference i may change my mind.
On the contrary, it's a nightmare and a constant switching guessing game. 4k exclusively might be one thing but start adding diversity of other types of sources like 3D and players such as PDVD and dedicated ROMS. You'll quickly find yourself MANUALLY switching Full vs Limited in your display constantly and the 'auto' setting isn't going to cut the mustard. This is because displays are unique and have a preference. For your visual test, play your good looking 4k. Then play a 1080 2D or 3D. Then play a disc in your dedicated player. After that play anything with PDVD that is locked in RGB Full. If you can't notice the difference, simply manually switch your display Full vs Limited setting during playback of each test provided you've also calibrated each. RGB Full across the board has none of these clashes because it allows Full where 420 and 422 are Limited only. There are many other differences such as Desktop vs Video modes. Although 420 is convenient for you, I don't think it's a good general practice for others.
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Old 24th January 2018, 17:43   #48652  |  Link
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On the contrary, .....
no knightmares for me, no switching anything, no need to change between full and limted on anything, not sure what you are referring to.

The point of using this is that I dont have to switch anything once you got your colour space chain right.

One problem I was getting was that I'd get audio dropouts when using 444 full RGB when playing 4k stuff, mainly high bit rate and HDR stuff and far more black screens and loss of HDMI, even though it was in 23p and should not have been a bandwidth issue. 1080p playback was flawless though so it does suggest bandwidth. This happened even after checking and replacing all my cabling and ensuring my full equipment path fully supported HDMI 2.0.

I am considering taking another look at this as I'm thinking of scrapping HDR, after comparing some of the latest HDR offerings to their SDR versions they are either only slightly better or worse. Star trek 2009 looks terrible on my TV.

My TV is a first gen HDR TV how with relatively low nits so this is expected.

Last edited by mclingo; 24th January 2018 at 17:50.
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Old 24th January 2018, 17:54   #48653  |  Link
brazen1
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I think I made it obvious to exactly was being referred. Did you happen to test any of those scenarios or just making assumptions that you're unaffected by them? If you only see a slight difference SDR to HDR, consider what is being explained to you. Then again, perhaps your display isn't capable of the full benefits of modern sources, software, and hardware after all and no amount of massaging is going to relieve your experience.
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Old 24th January 2018, 18:46   #48654  |  Link
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The point of using this is that I dont have to switch anything once you got your colour space chain right.
I don't understand, you don't have to switch anything if you simply use 8-bit RGB, and that would be the better option.

Also your dropout issue is probably cables or devices, I have had many HDMI cables that claimed to be 2.0 but had issues. 4:2:0 uses half the bandwidth but as way to get around bad HDMI cables it seems like a horrible sacrifice in quality. We are talking about madVR here.
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Old 24th January 2018, 18:56   #48655  |  Link
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I don't understand, you don't have to switch anything if you simply use 8-bit RGB, and that would be the better option.

Also your dropout issue is probably cables or devices, I have had many HDMI cables that claimed to be 2.0 but had issues. 4:2:0 uses half the bandwidth but as way to get around bad HDMI cables it seems like a horrible sacrifice in quality. We are talking about madVR here.
like I say, I may try it again at some point but I see no deterioration whatsoever in picture quality in real world viewing so I see no real need right now.
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Old 24th January 2018, 19:33   #48656  |  Link
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Madshi, as per the discussion above, just out of curiosity, is there a signal path with madVR that would allow avoiding upconverting 4:2:0 from the file to RGB buffers for processing i.e. to keep everything in component colorspace all the way to the display?
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Old 24th January 2018, 19:38   #48657  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Madshi, as per the discussion above, just out of curiosity, is there a signal path with madVR that would allow avoiding upconverting 4:2:0 from the file to RGB buffers for processing i.e. to keep everything in component colorspace all the way to the display?
Not on a PC, its internally always RGB.
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Old 24th January 2018, 21:00   #48658  |  Link
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Do you guys get sudden restarts?
Latest Win 10/Madvr(happened also with 0.92.10)
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Old 24th January 2018, 22:04   #48659  |  Link
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No such stability issues for anyone else here, it's your system and you'll have to narrow it down. Start with your graphics card software and stress test the hardware of your system.
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Old 24th January 2018, 22:07   #48660  |  Link
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Ok,thank you.
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