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Old 2nd October 2017, 14:23   #46161  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Thanks nevcairiel for that explanation. Im pleased that madvr is doing the right thing, what isnt then is many of the 576 DVDs.
99% of my classic BDs that are 4x3 fit perfectly within the motorised preset side masking I have set for 4.3, 16.9 and scope 2.35.
The presets are setup correctly from the Spears & Munsil test disc.

However may of the 4x3 DVDs I have the left and right edges miss the preset 4.3 side masking, unlike their BD cousins.
I can fix this with the zoom control, but the smallest % any of us can use is 25% zoom.
Using 25% zoom in this scenario is way to big and overshoots the 4x3 masking ratio up to approx 1.66 ratio, whereby cropping the top and bottom of the image too much.

I really wish madshi would make some smaller zoom steps e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, this would fix these incorrect sizings from some DVDs on 4x3 material.
It would be a very simple fix, not important for most who use monitors or TVs, but those with projectors and masking it would be a very welcome bonus!
I did mention this many months ago, as I also use the zoom control for some of the odd scope ratios that arnt 2.35, like Ben Hur and many of the very early Fox scope titles that are wider than todays scope.
The 25% often zooms up too large, having smaller steps would be great for us guys with projectors and motorised masking...wink wink
nearly any playback software supports this manually. and if you want to crop as little as possible but enough to get all black bars this is the only reliable way to make sure it will work in any case.
and there is another way too to do this fully automatic.
you create a profile for devices and create a masking for 4/3 content (480 right and 480 left on an UHD screen it is bigger on a 4096p screen but i'm sure you can do the math on your own)
after that you go to create the same profile for zooming just to be save and check "automatically detect hard coded black bars", "if there are big black bars" -> "... zoom the bars away completely" and "zoom small black bars away".


Quote:
What does the 480 mean?
and why is the 3360 not 3840 like my 16x9 BDs are?
I just dont understand the scaling...
that really did confuses of me with 4/3 content in my mind but what it's fine.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 14:47   #46162  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 14:47   #46163  |  Link
Owyn
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
automatically detect hard coded black bars: [Disabled] This enables the options below. madVR can detect and remove black bars on all sides of the video.
This does seem to crop bars at top\bottom, but not on on the left... bug?

screens:
original: http://i.cubeupload.com/b7mMse.png
cropped: http://i.cubeupload.com/llq8ia.png
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Old 2nd October 2017, 14:57   #46164  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.
it will not work on a 16/9 if they are left and right only well until you mask it.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 19:19   #46165  |  Link
70MM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.
madvr auto zoom control doesnt do it in the 4x3 DVDs, Ive tried that many times...
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Old 2nd October 2017, 19:26   #46166  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
and there is another way too to do this fully automatic..............the method......
that really did confuses of me with 4/3 content in my mind but what it's fine.
The method you state seems really complicated and hard to implement Im sorry to say. If the zoom settings in madvr had smaller steps as stated 5%,10%, 15%, 20% then the actual first one which is 25% this would be simple and easy to use. Just those four.....
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Old 2nd October 2017, 19:32   #46167  |  Link
huhn
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it pretty easy to do it is pretty much nothing compared to setting up multiply profiles.
and the most important part is it will work 100% automatic and it will crop as least as possible and only as much as needed.
you can even skip the profile part and manual check masking when a 4/3 source is played.

I mean why add options that only do the crude work when the current implementation is way more accurate.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 20:05   #46168  |  Link
70MM
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What is your method actually measuring to make the change automatically with the mask huhn?
Is it measuring the bar at the top and bottom and zooming them away to full screen?

If thats the case it doesn't necessarily work correctly if the 4x3 image is already full screen top and bottom within the 16.9 DVD...
What I need is to slightly zoom 4x3 images that are not quite wide enough within the 16X9 frame even if they are full frame top/bottom.
I dont mind if the image is slightly cropped top/bottom.

I already have a Profile for 25% zoom, but its too big a step, I probably only need a 5% zoom for DVDs that are affected this way.

Ive tested many times zoom small and big black bars away automatically but since it doesnt happen, I take it the 4x3 DVDs are already full frame top/bottom and thats where madvr measures from, not the sides...
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Old 2nd October 2017, 20:23   #46169  |  Link
huhn
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it simulates a 4/3 screen with touch from outside kind of.

so it will try to always remove all blackbars in the image up to a resolution of 2880x2160 and it will not try to remove the giant black bars that is mask by your projector it will always leave it black.
without this madVR will try to remove the huge blackbars created by the 4/3 image displayed on 16/9 screen making cropping 25% such a big step.

another easy "fix" for this problem should be the media player.
in mpc-hc you can use 9 on the numlock(with active numlock) to zoom in by 2% steps most other media player should have this option/feature too.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 20:27   #46170  |  Link
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Yes the 2% steps would be great! Im just looking to see if JRiver has that zoom feature as I use JR with madvr.... Will report back...
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Old 2nd October 2017, 22:01   #46171  |  Link
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Win81 with Kaby Lake processors / graphics

info: I updated here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...27#post1820027) the link for the inf file for the driver pakage since the previous one only recognized HD620 graphics.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 22:35   #46172  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
Back to my 720x576 DVDs that seem to be a bit small on my 16X9 screen when I set the motorised black masking to 4X3 as in this image. It always seems ok on 720x480 DVDs...
OSD states movie 720X576
Scale 0,0,720,576 > 480,0,3360,2160, is this correct?

What does the 480 mean?
and why is the 3360 not 3840 like my 16x9 BDs are?
I just dont understand the scaling...
https://snag.gy/Hvj2CT.jpg
Looks like overscan to me. Enable madVR's black bar detection if it bothers you?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 22:39   #46173  |  Link
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Same movie, first image with MPC-BE with Madvr, second with VLC without Madvr. With Madvr i can notice that the image is too much bright and less detailed as i can see, what i've to change?

With Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/61yp7gs8fv/

No Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/7j4u97x81n/

You should download the images to see the difference.

I use: chroma u.= NGU Sharp, medium. / image d.=SSIM, 1D 100% anti r. relaxed, anti b, 100%. / image u.= NGU sharp, high luma doubling; the rest madvr decide. / No upscaling refinement. I'm on 1920*1080 FullHD.

Thanks!
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Last edited by steakhutzeee; 2nd October 2017 at 23:44.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 22:53   #46174  |  Link
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the second screen is full of compression artefacts like banding and even some blocking.

are you using madVR debanding or something?
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Old 2nd October 2017, 23:15   #46175  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the second screen is full of compression artefacts like banding and even some blocking.

are you using madVR debanding or something?
Sorry i'm not so good at it so, two questions:

-Where i have to see to find these problems in the screenshot i made?

-Where i have to check in madvr settings to find what you asking?

EDIT: Sorry but, second screen is 'without' madvr. Madvr is present only in first screenshot, i named picture accordingly.

Thanks
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Old 2nd October 2017, 23:17   #46176  |  Link
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processing artifact removal -> reduce banding artifacts
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Old 2nd October 2017, 23:43   #46177  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
processing artifact removal -> reduce banding artifacts
Both two banding options sets to high. As i said, first image is with Madvr, second is without.

https://postimg.org/image/27iemzj4d7/
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Old 2nd October 2017, 23:51   #46178  |  Link
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disable it or try low.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 00:53   #46179  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
Yes, that does not help with the LG OLEDs, to be honest the LG panels have serious issues with the way they handle ARC and stuff. I found the solution is to have everything go via the AVR first.
Ah right, I'm not using ARC, maybe that's why it works better for me.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 04:53   #46180  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
another easy "fix" for this problem should be the media player.
in mpc-hc you can use 9 on the numlock(with active numlock) to zoom in by 2% steps most other media player should have this option/feature too.
Ive searched everywhere in JR for an easy fix for zooming small steps but cant find it anywhere. I have asked on their forum.

As you know a few weeks ago I removed my Lumagen Pro as many here said it was deteriorating my madvr image. Lumagen had zoom steps we could pre set to 5% steps or higher. This worked perfectly from my ipad for 4x3 films that needed a small zoom and also for the very wide scope films like Ben Hur etc etc whereby a small zoomed away the wide grey bars and filled the top/bottom fixed masking. The 5% steps were just enough to zoom the image up to fit the motorised black masking of my 4x3 or scope image, if I ever needed it. I also use an Isco III lens...

After removing the Lumagen Pro I now cant zoom small steps sadly as the 25% zoom is too great from madvr...

Hopefully JR comes back to me with some good news...

Last edited by 70MM; 3rd October 2017 at 04:56.
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