madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[cyberbeing]

My reasons are essentially opposite of yours.

I use ED1 mono static explicitly since it's not completely transparent and adds a bit of texture (similar to static grain) to the image, which I find benefits clean HD sources the most visually, especially animation. ED1 also has the lowest tendency of producing undesired dithering patterns and artifacts, at the expense of a slightly higher noise floor. This noise floor in turn makes Dynamic mono a poor fit for ED1, since it adds too much energy to motionless and flat content which can be distracting.

ED2 on the other hand has a lower noise floor, yet has a tendency to produce minor patterns and artifacts. Dynamic is needed to counteract this. With SD and below, I'd rather have a transparent dither without any visible texture. While quality of SD is usually low enough, that I wouldn't notice ED2 mono dynamic even if I were looking for it.

[luk008]

I'm using Error Diffusion Option 1 in madvr, but acessing the LAV Video Decoder Menu there's also an option for dithering mode (in this case I'm using ordered dithering). Is there a way to disable the LAV dithering and use only the madvr dithering?

[tobindac]

Originally Posted by Arm3nian

Can't those users just turn off motion interpolation on their tv? Seems to me there are more people who dislike things like SVP than favor it.

In my experience internet comments tend to be "trollish". That means if someone doesn't have a PC that can handle SVP, will likely post negative comments about it anyway. A good 1080p source will not be able to be played properly on a common 5 year old PC (let alone on an average HTPC that various users in this forum have), especially if madvr and svp quality settings must be set to the better algorithms.

e.g. I noticed that on overclock.net, where most people have insanely good GPUs and CPUs, they are often in favor of SVP+madvr.

Also sometimes it's only purism. I know there are rare artifacts, but the slideshow of 24 fps is multiple times more awful.

[sneaker_ger]

Originally Posted by luk008

I'm using Error Diffusion Option 1 in madvr, but acessing the LAV Video Decoder Menu there's also an option for dithering mode (in this case I'm using ordered dithering). Is there a way to disable the LAV dithering and use only the madvr dithering?

LAV only uses dithering when it does a colorspace conversion itself. It lets madVR do it unless you turn off the respective output format in the LAV Video settings.

[luk008]

Originally Posted by sneaker_ger

LAV only uses dithering when it does a colorspace conversion itself. It lets madVR do it unless you turn off the respective output format in the LAV Video settings.

In the YUV -> RGB conversion I leaved it as "untouched" in the LAV options. MadVR is set to use PC levels. Is this the best choice?

[sneaker_ger]

Just leave everything at the default value. Do not uncheck any of the output formats.

[jkauff]

Now that madshi has given us 64-bits in madVR, I wonder how close he's getting to a 1.0 release where we can finally give him some money for all his years of hard work.

[Arm3nian]

Originally Posted by MokrySedeS

Goddammit, Arm3nian... give up already. You just don't get it.
Go to that link and read it again. All of it!
Then, if you still think that huhn is wrong, read it again. And again, until you realise what he's talking about.
Stop dragging this, it's pointless and off-topic, and it just wastes everyones time, especially madshi's.

Apologies to everyone, I just couldn't stand him anymore... I'll shut up now.

Why are you so angry? And why is this off topic?

Huhn thinks that there are pitch issues when watching pal content with SM. I'm telling him that there aren't, and there isn't a need for reclock when using SM. Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?

Originally Posted by tobindac

In my experience internet comments tend to be "trollish". That means if someone doesn't have a PC that can handle SVP, will likely post negative comments about it anyway. A good 1080p source will not be able to be played properly on a common 5 year old PC (let alone on an average HTPC that various users in this forum have), especially if madvr and svp quality settings must be set to the better algorithms.

e.g. I noticed that on overclock.net, where most people have insanely good GPUs and CPUs, they are often in favor of SVP+madvr.

Also sometimes it's only purism. I know there are rare artifacts, but the slideshow of 24 fps is multiple times more awful.

I'm not talking about SVP, I'm talking about things like SVP, motion interpolation, used in televisions. Sometimes they aren't well implemented, and people don't like it. SVP works fine with SM. It was mentioned that there is ghosting with SM on some TVs, first with no proof, and second with disregarding the fact that plasmas flicker at 24hz, so reclock isn't that much of a benefit compared to running at 60hz with SM.

24fps looks fine for most content. If you want higher fps content, blame the content creators. Motion interpolation is like upscaling, it helps sometimes, but its tied to the quality of the source, you can't create information that isn't there.

[pankov]

Arm3nian,
did you listen to the examples from the PAL speedup page (http://sandbox.slysoft.com/palspeedup/index.html)?
Do you hear the differences?
If not then there is nothing we can do to explain this better to you but if you do then you'll understand what we have to live with in our PAL countries.
The speed up is not something that's done by us or by our gear - it's done in the studios and reclock is the only software solution to undo it so we can listen to the tracks as it was intended by the authors.

I hope you'll finally understand it and stop this discussion in this thread.
SM has a lot of benefits and I do use it but for totally different reasons and you have to accept that there are situations/persons that either don't like it (visually) or it doesn't fit their needs ... and that's life.

[Arm3nian]

So why can I watch 25fps content on a 60hz screen with SM and get no pitch issues?

[Qaq]

Originally Posted by Arm3nian

there isn't a need for reclock when using SM. Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?

Because you're wrong?

Originally Posted by madshi

madVR v0.86.0 released

* added smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm
...

...Consequently the motion smoothness depends on proper timestamps. If the timestamps (or audio clock) contain jitter, the playback will contain jitter, too. So even if Reclock might not be needed to avoid frame drops/repeats, anymore, when using madVR's new FRC algorithm, you might still want to use Reclock, because it provides a stable and reliable audio clock with very low jitter...

[Arm3nian]

LOL. Because reclock magically generates a clock in software right?

Reclock gets the clcok the from the crystal on your board, like other renderers. That was a problem in windows XP.

[Qaq]

I can't speak for madshi. You better tell him he was wrong.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by Arm3nian

So why can I watch 25fps content on a 60hz screen with SM and get no pitch issues?

With PAL speedup you get the wrong pitch watching 25 fps on a 50 Hz screen or even only listening to the audio. The studio did the speed up and Reclock offers a speed down option, which madVR also supports, to play 25 fps video at 24 fps. The display's refresh rate does not come into it.

[Schwartz]

I noticed that using 64-bit madVR with the appropriate MPC-HC and internal LAV Filters, NNEDI3 upscaling is not working at all. No matter which sub-settings I pick. Milisecond count however (rarely) spikes up in the renderer as if it were active. Graphics card is a R9 270X.

Also: Thanks for making a 64-bit version finally! That should be huge for scaler performance.

[vivan]

Originally Posted by Schwartz

Also: Thanks for making a 64-bit version finally! That should be huge for scaler performance.

All processing is done on GPU, there's no benefit for madVR (but there's for playback chain - currently x64 HEVC decoder is much faster).

[Thunderbolt8]

Originally Posted by huhn

this is my last word about the pal speed issue

http://sandbox.slysoft.com/palspeedup/index.html

madVR SM can't fix this.

cant people just whine at slysoft forums for them to put out a x64 version of reclock? I guess thats all that is needed, right?

[Arm3nian]

Originally Posted by Qaq

I can't speak for madshi. You better tell him he was wrong.

Ugh madshi was correct in his statement, just like everything he says. That post is just old, and doesn't apply anymore. There is a clock for your cpu, gpu, and audio. Other renderers can access the same clock that reclock can. Madshi has stated often that reclock is not needed for SM. If you don't believe me, try SM with reclock and without, there is no difference in IQ...

Originally Posted by Asmodian

With PAL speedup you get the wrong pitch watching 25 fps on a 50 Hz screen or even only listening to the audio. The studio did the speed up and Reclock offers a speed down option, which madVR also supports, to play 25 fps video at 24 fps. The display's refresh rate does not come into it.

What content actually suffers from this? 24fps or 25fps works fine on 50hz or 60hz. Those with Pal televisions can get the NTSC content and watch it with SM. Same with those with NTSC monitors who want to watch pal content. Not all content is sped up or slowed down. What is actually released today that is only available in a pitch alretered version?

[kalston]

There are plenty of DVDs sped up to 25fps (from 24) that require Reclock or JRiver's equivalent to watch them properly. Otherwise you're just watching a sped up film.

Maybe recent releases don't suffer from this, I have no clue, I moved to blu-ray long ago and rarely watch DVDs (just for those few titles that aren't released on blu-ray) but I've had to deal with more than a few sped up ones.

[Arm3nian]

Fair enough, that's a valid reason to use reclock, even though my original argument was about not needing reclock if using SM for non altered content. Most of those DVDs are remastered or available on bluray anyway as you said.