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Old 11th July 2002, 06:27   #1  |  Link
Bach
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Modification and optimization of robshot method and its possible use with DVD2SVCD

(or how to always get the same quality for all SVCD converted with DVD2SVCD)

Hi folks,

In the end of the last year robshot method was presented to the public as the way of extracting the maximum of quality in the conversion from DVD to DVD-R, with considerable reduction of video file size. In the following weeks, it was questioned if it would be useful to the users of SVCD too. Such quarrel was unfruitful and currently the robshot’s is predominantly used only by the owners of DVD-R. The results of my tests show that the method is intelligent, however have some sort of conceptual errors that makes it tiring and there are risks of image distortions. They also show that, after corrected such errors, it is possible easy use for DVD to CVD, SVCD or DVD-R conversions, and even though automatize it for the use with DVD2SVCD.

===> conceptual Errors of robshot method:

1) mpeg2 encoding must use non linear quantisation Scale (nlqS), instead of linear quantisation Scale(lqS). The values (S) of this scale are chosen by the encoder to calculate the most appropriate step quantisation of the coefficients of the discrete cosine transform (DCT), in accordance to the equation

CQ(i, j)=[alpha*C(i, j)]//[(QM(i, j)*S) ],

Where // means that the result of the division is rounded off, CQ(i, j) is the quantized term i,j of the matrix of coefficients of DCT, alpha is a numerical constant, C(i, j) is the term i,j of the matrix of coefficients of DCT and QM(i, j) is the term i,j of the quantisation matrix. When using nlqS, the variation of S is more smooth than that of lqS for S<60, so that the encoder can choose smooth values of S, minimizing the distortions.

2) the value of Q.factor must be smaller than 40. Robshot method (RoM) uses Q.factor=60, a value that is very close to the limit for which we observe distortion. Attention that the Q.factor is an exclusive concept of CCE, directly related with the quantisation, but it does not mean QM nor S, and it is not very clear the way that it is calculated. Based in the results of my tests, I believe that Q.factor is in some way proportional to the average value of the product QM(i, j)*S. Anyway, the Q.factor is the direct measure of the quality to be gotten so that, if two different films are recompressed using the same settings and the same Q.factor, can be guaranteed that they have the same quality.

3) the value of bias must be bigger than 0. If we use bias=0, the great freedom of variation of the bitrate results in the possibility of great distortions in very dark scenes. I recommend to use bias=10. It is interesting to know that this value can be directly modified in the ecl file, so that it is not necessary to wait for the end of the first pass.

4) The average bitrate, used in the second pass, is not necessarily equal to 2000. This is a crucial error. When we choose to make the first step using a fixed Q.factor, we are actually saying to CCE which quality we want to get in our encoding. In exchange, CCE will say us what is the size that the archive must have so that it gets such quality. Thus, the average bitrate used in the second pass must be calculated from the size of the mpv file created in the first pass, using the equation

avr_bitrate=mpv_size*8.192/(movie_time_length*60)

For example, if mpv_size=1,400,000 KB and movie_time_length=100 min, then avr_bitrate=1911 kbps.

5) the value of image quality priority equal to 5 is very small. It should be between 15 and 25. In accordance with CCE manual itself, “When the value is close to 0,the mosquito noise at the edges (noise causing hazy part along the edges,looking like flying mosquitoes)is less outstanding, but the contouring noise (noise which looks like contour line patterns, which appear in flat and wide areas,such as dark background) is more outstanding”.

6) It is totaly unnecessary to open “advanced settings” in order to manually modify the values of global and local bitrates. This stage of RoM can be totally discarded. When we follow instructions 2, 3 and 4, the average quantisation already is in the adequate value and the average allocation of bits already is optimized, so that any attempt of fine adjustments will be only loss of time.
In this point it is necessary to make some commentaries, for those that already usually use RoM and may insist on opening “advanced settings”:
= > the red regions do not correspond to images with distortion. They correspond to completely black parts of the film, that are codified with highest quantisation and very low bitrates;
= > the gray areas, if exists, already have practically the highest allowed bitrate and any attempt of change it to green will result in the creation of a new gray region in GOPs that were previously in green regions;
= > when we follow instructions 2, 3 and 4, it is verified that the value of the average Q.factor of the film is always the same, and it doesn´t matter which was the source film. This can also be verified with the use of BitrateViewer.

One question may appear: You said that it is unnecessary to use “advanced settings”. Does it mean it is unnecessary to make the second pass also?
No. Surely the second pass is necessary. I said that the average allocation of bits already is optimized, but the distribution of these bits inside of each GOP still can and must be optimized, and for this it is necessary to use multipass (it may be 1 or 2 pass). More than two, however, is loss of time and risk of distortion.

Now that the corrections in the RoM had been made, go to the second part of the heading of this post.

===> How to automatize robshot-Bach method:

The modifications done above make it possible to use RoM, now robshot-Bach, in an automatization tool, as for example DVD2SVCD, in order to use an adequate amount of CDs. At this moment I do it by hand, following the procedure below:

- run CCE 1passVBR, Q.factor = 30 (or 40), min = 0, max = 2500, bias = 10, and the other settings as usual;
- Calculate the average bitrate (avb_1pass) of the mpv file created by CCE, in accordance with the equation of item 4;
- Calculate the average bitrate that should be used to fill 1CD (avb1), 2CDs (avb2), 3CDs (avb3), or 4CDs (avb4):
-If ((avb_1pass - avb1)/avb1) < 0,1, then avb_1pass = avb1;
-Else if ((avb_1pass - avb2)/avb2) < 0,1, then avb_1pass = avb2;
-Else if ((avb_1pass. avb3)/avb3) < 0,1, then avb_1pass = avb3;
-Else avb_1pass = avb4.
- Execute multipass, 1, 2 or 3 passes, using min = 0, max = 2500, avr = avb_1pass, bias=10, and the remain settings as the previous one. Note that this multipass will re-use the vaf file created in the 1passVBR. So, the first pass of this multipass is NOT the vaf creation. It is the mpv creation.

Because of the way that DVD2SVCD works, the size (and consequently the average bitrate) of a SVCD depends only of the movie time length, without taking into account its compressibility. Since the author recommends that the average bitrate should be always between 1600 and 2230, the majority of the conversions done with DVD2SVCD have good quality. I say the majority, but not all. There is the possibility of, for example, producing 3 CDs of a film of 140 minutes of easy compressibility in 2 CDs, wasting then 1 CD. It could happen also that we use only 2 CDs for a film of 110 minutes when, in the truth, its compressibility is hard and would need 3 CDs.

To avoid such thing, in fact, all my last SVCDs have been done using this method.

To finish, I would like to say that this is only one small contribution for the users of the CCE, which may also be of advantage for the users of DVD2SVCD. I hope that it is of some value.

Last edited by Bach; 9th July 2003 at 15:32.
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Old 11th July 2002, 08:18   #2  |  Link
dvd2svcd
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Thanks Bach, it looks very interesting. I'll call this method RoBa if it's ok with you and make this post sticky for the time being. I'll see if I can implement it in the next release.

Something like this?
1. Do a CCE 1-pass VBR with Robshots settings + your added changes
2. Do your calculations and changes then run CCE in x-pass VBR

For those interested here's what CCE has to say about BIAS:

Quote:
Originally by CCE
Breaking into bit allocation strategy The encoder allocates bits
based on the original evaluation standard, so that all images have the
same visual quality. Changing the value of the Bias part breaks
into this evaluation standard. 0 to 100 can be set here. The initial
value is 30. As the value becomes smaller, more bits are allocated to
complicated scenes, and at value 0, the bitrate fluctuation is largest.
As this value becomes larger, more bits are allocated to simple scenes,
and at value 100, streams closer to CBR are output.
So as I see it this is a value that I should populate so it can be changed by the users when using the Multipass method.

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Last edited by dvd2svcd; 11th July 2002 at 11:33.
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Old 11th July 2002, 13:14   #3  |  Link
Holomatrix
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Great post, will try settings on next encode. I can't seem to get to Robshots site to view the original guide. Is it down? I just wanted to know what the other settings were - Resize method and if any filters (TS or Sharpen) were used on any of the passes?
Thanks

Last edited by Holomatrix; 11th July 2002 at 13:16.
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Old 11th July 2002, 14:23   #4  |  Link
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@Bach: Do you delete the VAF file inbetween the 1-pass vbr and the multipass. I has because I am getting CRC Errors when I try the above method (and if you do then I think I misunderstood your post/Robshots method).
Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
No, I don´t delete the vaf file. It is re-used in the multipass. I got CRC errors in the past (maybe half year ago) and the reason was one of the following:
a) I have edited the avs file;
b) I have changed the place where the d2v file was;
c) I have some codec misbehaviour. This means that, in the pass of vaf creation, the avs file was read by CCE as yuv. In the second pass, CCE "think" it was RGB and try to do RGB->YUV.

Btw: since I was playing with different matrices (what a waste of time...) too, my tests where done with link2 + CCE 2.62. I don't have any crashs since May.

Are you reading CCE logfile to verify if it say anything? The last lines of my CCE logfile at this moment are the following:

---------------------------------------------

***** CCE SP Trial Version started at 2002/07/11 11:15:33 *****
SDK version 2.62 CCE Trial (built at Mar 13 2001 05:08:41)
fexp thread created.
Found idx1.
biCompression = WRPR
fccHandler = WRPR
trying yuy2.
cce created.
encoder initialized.
encoding started at 2002/07/11 11:18:25.
>> received encoding start notification
>> received encoding stop notification
encoding stopped at 2002/07/11 11:22:05.
sync stopped.
fdev0 closed.
fdev1 closed.
>>>> Performance <<<<
Source : 166.875 seconds (4001 frames)
Elapsed: 219.564 seconds
---------------------------------------------------
>> File reading 0.693 0.316 %
>> Decoding 104.400 47.549 %
>> RGB -> YUY2 0.000 0.000 %
---------------------------------------------------
>> MPEG encoding 114.471 52.136 %
fexp thread terminated.
***** CCE SP Trial Version shutting down at 2002/07/11 11:23:39 *****
***** CCE SP Trial Version started at 2002/07/11 11:28:15 *****
SDK version 2.62 CCE Trial (built at Mar 13 2001 05:08:41)
fexp thread created.
Found idx1.
biCompression = WRPR
fccHandler = WRPR
trying yuy2.
cce created.
encoder initialized.
encoding started at 2002/07/11 11:28:41.
>> received encoding start notification
>> received encoding stop notification
encoding stopped at 2002/07/11 11:32:20.
sync stopped.
fdev0 closed.
fdev1 closed.
>>>> Performance <<<<
Source : 166.875 seconds (4001 frames)
Elapsed: 218.668 seconds
---------------------------------------------------
>> File reading 0.562 0.257 %
>> Decoding 103.591 47.373 %
>> RGB -> YUY2 0.000 0.000 %
---------------------------------------------------
>> MPEG encoding 114.516 52.370 %
fexp thread terminated.
***** CCE SP Trial Version shutting down at 2002/07/11 11:33:28 *****
***** CCE SP Trial Version started at 2002/07/11 12:49:32 *****
SDK version 2.62 CCE Trial (built at Mar 13 2001 05:08:41)
fexp thread created.
Found idx1.
biCompression = WRPR
fccHandler = WRPR
trying yuy2.
cce created.
encoder initialized.
encoding started at 2002/07/11 12:50:32.
>> received encoding start notification
>> received encoding stop notification
encoding stopped at 2002/07/11 12:54:19.
sync stopped.
fdev0 closed.
fdev1 closed.
>>>> Performance <<<<
Source : 166.875 seconds (4001 frames)
Elapsed: 227.377 seconds
---------------------------------------------------
>> File reading 0.652 0.287 %
>> Decoding 106.818 46.978 %
>> RGB -> YUY2 0.000 0.000 %
---------------------------------------------------
>> MPEG encoding 119.907 52.735 %
fexp thread terminated.
***** CCE SP Trial Version shutting down at 2002/07/11 12:59:41 *****
***** CCE SP Trial Version started at 2002/07/11 14:03:37 *****
SDK version 2.62 CCE Trial (built at Mar 13 2001 05:08:41)
fexp thread created.
Found idx1.
biCompression = WRPR
fccHandler = WRPR
trying yuy2.
cce created.
encoder initialized.
encoding started at 2002/07/11 14:06:24.
>> received encoding start notification
>> received encoding stop notification
encoding stopped at 2002/07/11 14:21:51.
sync stopped.
fdev0 closed.
fdev1 closed.
>>>> Performance <<<<
Source : 455.488 seconds (13651 frames)
Elapsed: 927.574 seconds
---------------------------------------------------
>> File reading 2.886 0.311 %
>> Decoding 405.560 43.723 %
>> RGB -> YUY2 0.000 0.000 %
---------------------------------------------------
>> MPEG encoding 519.129 55.966 %
fexp thread terminated.
***** CCE SP Trial Version shutting down at 2002/07/11 14:33:52 *****

----------------------------------------------------

Last edited by dvd2svcd; 11th July 2002 at 14:25.
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Old 11th July 2002, 22:22   #5  |  Link
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Well, I do not do any of the above, you see I have already automated the process (without deleting the VAF file) and I got that CRC error. I will do some more testing. Maybe I should put my dvd2svcd version here so you can test it and tell me what I do wrong.
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Old 11th July 2002, 22:54   #6  |  Link
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Bach's reply

Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
Is this the problematic version? For me it works like a charm.
I must say: IT IS AWESOME. THANK YOU.

Now, lets try to debug (it is hard to do it without a bug): while watching
(following?) your CCE implementation I can see a potential culprit of your CRC errors:
In the multipass step, you are loading the pseudo_avi file and creating a new ecl from it.
This is a potential source of problems. For example, it is theoretically possible that this
new ecl have a total number of frames different from that number encoded with the previous step
, the 1passVBR.
I think it would be better to do the following:
-shutdown CCE after the end of 1passVBR.
-Read the size of the mpv file.
-Calculate the correct average bitrate, based on my If_Else_Then code.
-Edit the ecl file with the settings for multipass.
-Run CCE and load the edited ecl file.
-Encode.

I must say this again, if it have some value: I am using CCE 2.62 and Link2.

Regards.

Last edited by dvd2svcd; 11th July 2002 at 23:29.
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Old 12th July 2002, 15:40   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
Is this the problematic version? For me it works like a charm.
I must say: IT IS AWESOME. THANK YOU.
Thanks

Quote:
Now, lets try to debug (it is hard to do it without a bug): while watching
(following?) your CCE implementation I can see a potential culprit of your CRC errors:
In the multipass step, you are loading the pseudo_avi file and creating a new ecl from it.
This is a potential source of problems. For example, it is theoretically possible that this
new ecl have a total number of frames different from that number encoded with the previous step
, the 1passVBR.
I think it would be better to do the following:
-shutdown CCE after the end of 1passVBR.
-Read the size of the mpv file.
-Calculate the correct average bitrate, based on my If_Else_Then code.
-Edit the ecl file with the settings for multipass.
-Run CCE and load the edited ecl file.
-Encode.
That might be the solution.

Quote:
I must say this again, if it have some value: I am using CCE 2.62 and Link2.
Well, there is a definate difference because I am using 2.50, can you test it with 2.50 ?
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Old 12th July 2002, 19:50   #8  |  Link
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used it last night for mulholland drive (pal-reg2/2h20min),
settings were:
cce v 2.50 (no crc-patch)/athlon 1.2ghz-512mb
iqp=20
bias=20
q.factor=30
bilinear resize
4passes
bitrate min=300 max=2500 avg.max=2350
sound=192, resampled to 44.1kHz
cce adv.setting according to bitrateviewer/mpegrepair for this movie

took a long time, but gave me 2(avg<1400) instead of 3cd (avg<2100),
well i can't say much about the quality itself, because i have't had the time to encode it the usual way, nor watch the result on tv(philips 32") to compare to the original (brought it back), but on the pc it looked a bit blocky. have to compare to the other encode i will do soon.
anyway, if the difference is not too big to the result with 3cd's, this is the new way for me. i'm corious for the event if the roba result becomes bigger then the 'usual' result.

greets,
g.
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Old 15th July 2002, 16:47   #9  |  Link
Holomatrix
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When I run this new version, just before DVD2SVCD starts the second pass, DVD2SVCD scroll's somthing in the log, which causes it to never finish.(no log) I have to end the task. Has this happened to you guys yet?
Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
Hi folks,

I have no posts this weekend because I was waiting for more reports... What is going on? Is it just me who can use this version with no problems? Is it hard to believe it works? I would like to get your feedback, so that we may do some sort of fine tunning of the default settings of my method, if necessary.

Anyway, here are two samples of an encoding done with this beta version of D2S. The movie is Xmen. I have used tmpeg's mpeg tools in order to cut these samples. The encoder settings were:
-first CCE run:
1passVBR, Q=40, min=0, max=9800, bias=20, quality priority=20, progressive, zig-zag, DVD compliant, DC=10, AR = 16:9.
-second CCE run:
avr= 1452, number of passes=2.

the avs file was done by hand, with the help of aviutl, is macroblock/CCE optimized and have these lines:
-----------------------
bicubicresize(686,350,0,0.5,8,56,706,364)
addborders(17,65,17,65)
-----------------------

As you can see, I did it as if I was encoding for DVD-R, with full resolution and anamorphic.

Here are the samples(links are gone now):

X_men, average action (total size = 7351 KB)
X_men, high action (total size = 19001 KB)

The whole encoded video stream have 1.1 GB. The source have 3.4 GB. The time length is 104min.

What is your opinion?
Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
Hi D2S,

quote: Originally posted by dvd2svcd
"Well, there is a definate difference because I am using 2.50, can you test it with 2.50 ?"


Ok, here is my result:
1) doing it by hand: no problems, the good and old avs+2.50 pair works fine.
2) doing it with this beta version: I cannot test if it works. When it start the 2nd step, both D2S and CCE freezes and all I can do is ctrl+alt+del them. This behaviour happens randomly with the classic method too.
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Old 16th July 2002, 21:20   #10  |  Link
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@bach
@dvd2svcd

beta test reports:

movies:

dinossaur
planet of the apes (2000) ( gave me problems befoure so i use this one as test mvie )
matrix

settings
iqp=17
q factor 30
anti noise off
bias 10

no other filters ( no sharpening or ts )

5 passes

everything whent ok till the end using cce 2.5 and cce 2.6 + link2 ( OBRIGADÃO ) in all the movies.

the final result is very good since i was not using any kind of filter but nevertheless the movies are PERFECT.

bach thank you for sharing this method
dvd2svcd thank you for making this one possible to be used with your MASTER PIECE OF SOFTWARE.


my encode machine is now half way on a cue encode of " some dvds " and til now no problem ( 6 dvd ready ) didnt played the result so only can say that the encode was finished.
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Old 16th July 2002, 23:00   #11  |  Link
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I tried it and it failed. I used CCE 2.5 and the CCE error was:

>>
CCE encoding failed: Error: Video checksum is different from that of previous pass.
Source video date or time code may be different.
Please check video tape or the information file.
Please check video tape or the information file.
>>

If you need the log, just ask.
Quote:
Originally posted by Bach
@ fgm

Your problem is the same of dvd2svcd. Could you verify if you can do it - the method - by hand?

@ clixomano

thanks for your report. Btw: this method have also the intend of to use less passes. So, if possible, please try again using 2 passes and verify if really there is any difference in using this method with 5 passes.

@ everyone

come on... 108 donwloads and only four reports? Please, post your results. They may be something like:

CCE settings:Q=30, min=0, max=2600, progressive[x], zigzag[x], linear[], bias=20, iqp=20, 2pass.
CCE version: 2.50->doesn't works (freezing before 2nd run)
2.62->works
machine:athlon 1.2 GHz
my opinion:awesome? good? not so good? bad? awful? crappy?

one last thing: now the samples linked above are just mpeg video, not win_aced. You can download it at once.
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Old 17th July 2002, 21:30   #12  |  Link
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@bach: i will make a test as soon it finish the cue
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Old 18th July 2002, 03:46   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Your problem is the same of dvd2svcd. Could you verify if you can do it - the method - by hand?
Sorry, I wish I could but for the rest of the week I'm going to be swamped. I just got here for a shower and a snack, a quick reprogramming of DVD2SVCD and I'm out again. I hope early next week to have some spare time and I'll try it, I promise.

I can confirm that using CCE 2.62 with VFAPI does work. I'm currently encoding Ocean's Eleven (4X3 version ) and I will compare it with a regularly encoded version I already have. I'll let you know.
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Old 18th July 2002, 19:39   #14  |  Link
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I must be doing something wrong. Ocean's Eleven with the new RoBa method produced only 1 CD with an average bitrate of 848. Not good! I used the following settings:

Max: 2550, Min: 200, Avg. 2400, CD Size: 801, 4 pass, Image Quality Priority: 17, Q. Factor 5, Anti Noise: 2, Bias: 20. CCE advanced settings at default except for Close All GOPs that I enabled.

Aspect Ratio: 4X3, CVD format, only one audio at 192 Kb with one permanent subtitle. Bicubic Resize: 0.0 0.75

Funny thing is that in the first pass it said 2CDs with 1669 Kb Average Bitrate. Here is the log:

++++++++++++++++++
Drive is harddisk, no need to authenticate - OK.
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 17:43:02
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.1.0 build 1 Pre 22
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 17:43:05
- Analyzing subtitles
--------------------------------------------------------
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x22 Language: English
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x21 Language: Español
Subtitle found: StreamID: 0x20 Language: Portugues

Executing subtitle selection/verification.
Subtitle selection/verification accepted.
1 subtitle streams selected.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 17:43:10
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -EXIT -OF=[F:\Movie\DVD2AVI_Project_file]

-IF=[F:\Vobs\Oceans Eleven\VTS_01_1.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans Eleven\VTS_01_2.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans

Eleven\VTS_01_3.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans Eleven\VTS_01_4.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans Eleven\VTS_01_5.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans

Eleven\VTS_01_6.vob,F:\Vobs\Oceans Eleven\VTS_01_7.vob]
Analyzing DVD2AVI Project file
Force Film activated!
Framerate: 23976
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 17:46:54
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 22169.96 mb
- Extracting the subtitles.
--------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle extraction finished. Extracted these subtitles:
SVCD Stream no: 1 Language: Español Num. of subs: 1146

Saving Subtitle Timecodes.
Permanent subtitles.
Saving Subtitles ini file
--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 17:55:42
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 22141.52 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x80
Filename: F:\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: -90 ms
Audio extraction finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 18:03:40
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 21768.01 mb
- AUDIO conversion
--------------------------------------------------------

Converting Audio to MP2. Filename: F:\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "F:\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3" -output

"F:\Movie\Encoded_audio_1.mp2" -logfile "F:\Movie\Encoded_audio_1.log" ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround -g

max ) -ota( -d -90 ) -2lame( -e -b 192 -m s )
Audio conversion of F:\Movie\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 18:17:36
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 21610.79 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures

--------------------------------------------------------
- 17/07/2002 20:13:48
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 21912.16 mb
- Video Encoding using Cinema Craft
--------------------------------------------------------

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 1667177176
AudioSectors: 170309692
VideoPAPO: 23187276
ScanOffsetBytes: 201211
SeqAligningBytes: 12788090
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 8
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 600.00
PureMPEGStream: 1460690899.20
Seconds: 7001.49
CalcMPEGStream: 1460690899.20
Frames: 167676
CDSize: 801.00
Number of CDs: 2
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 167676
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: RoBa Multipass VBR (a mix between 1-pass and multipass encoding)
Min. bitrate: 200
Max. bitrate: 2550
Q. Factor: 5
Avg. Bitrate: 1669
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("E:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.DLL")
mpeg2source("F:\Movie\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BicubicResize(352,480,0,0.75)
AvisynthSubtitler("F:\Movie\Subs\","permsubs.txt")
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 1.060
Video Encoding finished.


Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 834285788
AudioSectors: 170260888
VideoPAPO: 10286100
ScanOffsetBytes: 201211
SeqAligningBytes: 12788090
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 300.00
PureMPEGStream: 640749495.20
Seconds: 6999.49
CalcMPEGStream: 640749495.20
Frames: 167676
CDSize: 801.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 167676
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 4
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: RoBa Multipass VBR (a mix between 1-pass and multipass encoding)
Min. bitrate: 200
Max. bitrate: 2550
Q. Factor: 5
Avg. Bitrate: 732
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("E:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\mpeg2dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\ARCHIV~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.DLL")
mpeg2source("F:\Movie\DVD2AV~1.D2V")
BicubicResize(352,480,0,0.75)
AvisynthSubtitler("F:\Movie\Subs\","permsubs.txt")
----AVS End----

Closing program
CCE Max Speed: 1.070
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:24:27
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 17347.46 mb
- Video Pulldown
--------------------------------------------------------
Executing Pulldown. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\pulldown\pulldown.exe" "F:\Movie\Encoded_Video_CCE_NTSC.mpv"

"F:\Movie\Pulldown_Encoded_Video_NTSC.mpv"
Video pulldown finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:26:47
- Free on drive E: 2199.91 mb
- Free on drive F: 16737.28 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:26:51
- Free on drive E: 2199.88 mb
- Free on drive F: 16737.32 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "F:\Movie\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:27:01
- Free on drive E: 2199.78 mb
- Free on drive F: 16737.39 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 1
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 796 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "F:\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mpg"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:46:26
- Free on drive E: 2199.72 mb
- Free on drive F: 15942.83 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: F:\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
6992.304 seconds F:\Movie\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.mpg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:47:31
- Free on drive E: 2199.72 mb
- Free on drive F: 15943.01 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 35

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"E:\Archivos de programa\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe" --verbose --cue-file="F:\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD1.cue"

--bin-file="F:\Movie\CD_Image_File_CD1.bin" "F:\Movie\VCDXBuild_Script_1.xml"
CD-Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 18/07/2002 5:51:31
- Free on drive E: 2199.72 mb
- Free on drive F: 15137.18 mb
- SVCD Creation finished!
--------------------------------------------------------
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Old 19th July 2002, 08:57   #15  |  Link
Toffy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Hello,
I made a first test with password swordfish:
CCE settings:Q=30, min=900, max avg 2200, max=2500,
Advanced settings untouched, 16:9 (encoded as 4:3) borders added,
bias=10, iqp=25, 2pass.
CCE version: 2.62->works, speed 0.73
no noise filter, no sharpen, no temporalsmoother
bicubic resize b=0 c=0.6
Permanent subs.
machine:athlon 1.4 GHz

my opinion: somewhere between highly recommendable and good.
I have no direct compare. It looks like a great progress.
// A test with cce 2.50 and a more difficult film will follow.

Regards

Toffy

P.S: 2. Test finished:
CCE settings:Q=30, min=100, max avg 2500, max=2620,
Advanced settings untouched, 4:3 (encoded as 4:3) no borders added,
bias=10, iqp=25, 1pass.
CCE version: 2.50->works, speed 1.1
no noise filter, no sharpen, no temporalsmoother
bicubic resize b=0 c=0.6
No subs.

These both films differ only 9 min. in length. (1. 1:35, 2. 1:43:40). For the 1. film 2 CDs are used and for the 2. 2 1/2.
The avg bitrate that is used was for the 1. film 2023 and for the 2. the max value of 2500. I think that´s how this process should work.
By the way the quality of the 2. film was very, very near to the original film.

Toffy

Last edited by Toffy; 19th July 2002 at 14:23.
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Old 19th July 2002, 10:05   #16  |  Link
Clixo
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Portugal
Posts: 247
@ bach and dvd2svcd :
2 pass testes:

the matrix
gladiator
final fantasy
planet of the apes

cce : 2.5 and cce 2.62 + link2 (in all the movies)

results :awesome

other settings : d2s default + ts(3,2)
iqp=17
q factor 30
anti noise off
bias 10

i highly recomend this method, my tests are now going to use the " unsharp" comand, and will report back asap.
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Old 19th July 2002, 15:53   #17  |  Link
switu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 52

I was following your quick guide and unfortunatly
CCe stoped at the second pass.The first time i was just doing 2 pass.
I have try both version of CCE 2.5 , 2.62(save mode) and end up with the same resolts
"ctrl, alt , delete"
Any idea what could be the reason?

Executing Frameserver.
Closing program

Executing Cinema Craft Encoder.
StreamSectors: 834285788
AudioSectors: 8175832
VideoPAPO: 12796884
ScanOffsetBytes: 14972
SeqAligningBytes: 951579
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 812346516.40
Seconds: 504.08
CalcMPEGStream: 812346516.40
Frames: 12477
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 796.00
Variable Settings:
Frames: 12477
Anti Noise Filter: 2
Passes: 2
Image Quality: 17
VAF file creation: On
Video Encoding Mode: RoBa Multipass VBR (a mix between 2-pass and multipass encoding)
Min. bitrate: 0
Max. bitrate: 2500
Q. Factor: 30
Avg. Bitrate: 2230
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

Last edited by switu; 19th July 2002 at 16:07.
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Old 20th July 2002, 13:21   #18  |  Link
Clixo
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Portugal
Posts: 247
these are my working settings , this is a copy of my roba.ini file for roba method, just use the settings here. it is working here like a charm in am p4 1.7 an athlon 660 and an athlon 1.6 .
i cant believe that i am the only one besides Bach and Tofy that is getting results !


____________________________________________________________________
[Executables]


PVA Executable=
vStrip Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\vStrip\vStrip.exe
DVD2AVI Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe
BeSweet Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe
MadPlay Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\MADPlay\madplay.exe
MPEG51 Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\MPEG5.1\pub_enc.exe
CCE Executable=C:\PROGRA~1\CUSTOM~1\CINEMA~1\cctsp.exe
VFAPI Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VFAPI\Reader\VFAPIConv-EN.exe
TMPGEnc Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\tmpegencoder\Files\TMPGEnc.exe
Pulldown Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\pulldown\pulldown.exe
SubMux Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\WinSubMux\WinSubMux.exe
bbMPEG Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe
I-Author Executable=C:\Program Files\Enreach\I-Author Deluxe for SuperVCD\IAuthorDlx.exe
VCDImager Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDImager.exe
VCDXBuild Executable=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe
CDMage Executable=C:\Documents and Settings\xxx\Desktop\CD MAGE\CDmage.exe
RunPerCDImage Executable=
RunFinal Executable=
MPG2Dec DLL=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\MPEG2Dec\MPEG2DEC2.dll
InverseTelecine DLL=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\InverseTelecine\Donald Graft\decomb.dll
Subtitle DLL=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\AvisynthSubtitler.dll
BMP Loader DLL=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\AvisynthBMPLoader.dll
SimpleResize DLL=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\SimpleResize\SimpleResize.dll
Title Picture=
Change CD Picture=C:\Program Files\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
[Folders]
PVA Folder=C:\testes\roba\
DVD2AVI Folder=C:\testes\roba\
vStrip Folder=C:\testes\roba\
Audio Folder=C:\testes\roba\
CCE Folder=C:\testes\roba\
TMPGEnc Folder=C:\testes\roba\
Pulldown Folder=C:\testes\roba\
bbMPEG Folder=C:\testes\roba\
I-Author Folder=C:\testes\roba\
Subpictures Folder=C:\testes\roba\Subs
[Settings]
XPos=182
YPos=209
FirstRun=0
Resize AVS Position=3
TemporalSmoother AVS Position=2
Sharpen AVS Position=1
UsePVA2SVCD=0
UseDVD2SVCD=1
UseAVI2SVCD=0
UseMPEG1=0
UseMPEG2=1
Convert to Canopus codec=0
Convert to Divx4=1
Use Frameselection=0
New Default Folder=1
DVD2SVCD Level=1
UseDVDRip=1
UsevStrip=0
UseInternalRip=1
Eject DVD=0
iDCT=3
DVD2AVI Pause=0
Luminance Gain=0
Luminance Offset=0
Audio1Downsampling=0
Audio2Downsampling=1
Audio1BitRate=9
Audio2BitRate=7
tooLame Mode=0
Autodetect Azid Gain=1
Folder Structure Source=
Folder Structure Video=
Folder Structure Audio=
Folder Structure Muxed=
Folder Structure Subs=Subs
Intra=8,16,19,22,26,27,29,34,16,16,22,24,27,29,34,37,19,22,26,27,29,34,34,38,22,22,26,27,29,34,37,40,22,26,27,29,32,35,40,48,26,27,29,32,35,40,48,58,26,27,29,34,38,46,56,69,27,29,35,38,46,56,69,83
NonIntra=16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,19,20,21,22,23,24,26,27,20,21,22,23,25,26,27,28,21,22,23,24,26,27,28,30,22,23,24,26,27,28,30,31,23,24,25,27,28,30,31,33
Matrice Preset=
Use deafult Matrice=1
LFEDownmixLR6Ch=-3
LFEDownmixLFE6Ch=0
CenterDownmix6Ch=0
SurroundDownmix6Ch=0
DynamicCompression6Ch=1
StereoDownmixType6Ch=0
RearChannelFiltering6Ch=0
DialogNorm6Ch=0
LFEDownmixLR2Ch=-3
LFEDownmixLFE2Ch=0
CenterDownmix2Ch=-1
SurroundDownmix2Ch=-1
DynamicCompression2Ch=1
StereoDownmixType2Ch=0
RearChannelFiltering2Ch=0
DialogNorm2Ch=0
No Audio Conversion=0
TemporalSmoother Strength=2
TemporalSmoother Radius=1
Use TemporalSmoother=0
Use Sharpen=0
Sharpen Value=0.00
ResizeMethod=2
Avisynth Bicubic b Value=0
Avisynth Bicubic c Value=0.8
Flip Vertival=0
Add ResampleAudio=1
Resize To=1
Use CCE=1
Use TMPGEnc=0
CCE Safe Mode=0
NoOfpasses=2
CCE Image Quality=17
CCE Anti noise value=2
CCE Anti noise=0
CBR=0
One Pass VBR=0
Multi Pass VBR=0
RoBa Multi Pass=1
CCE Bias=10
CCE Field Order=2
Progressive=1
Auto Intra DC=0
DVD Compliant=0
Restrict auto I frame insertion=0
Close all GOPs=0
Intra DC=2
M GOP=3
MN GOP=5
SEQ Header=1
Constrained Parameter Set=1
TMPGEnc Rate Control Mode=2
TMPGEnc Motion search precision=4
TMPGEnc Field Order=2
Frames pr spread=50
Spread=40
OffsetFixed CQ Value=80
Use fixed CQ Value=0
DC component precision=2
Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr not CCIR601=0
Use floating point DCT=1
No motion search for still picture part by half pixel=1
Soften block noise=0
Soften Intra=35
Soften NonIntra=35
TMPGEnc GOP I Pictures=1
TMPGEnc GOP P Pictures=4
TMPGEnc GOP B Pictures=3
TMPGEnc SEQ Headers=1
TMPGEnc Max frames in GOP=0
TMPGEnc Close GOPs=0
TMPGEnc Detect Scene Change=1
Enabled Padding=0
TMPGEnc VBVBuffer=0
Dont Delete Files=1
Create VAF=1
QFactor=30
Linear quantizer scale=1
Zigzag scanning order=1
Use2Streams=0
Pri1Audio1=28
Pri1Audio2=-1
Pri2Audio1=-1
Pri2Audio2=-1
Sub1=88
Sub2=-1
Sub3=-1
Sub4=-1
Sub5=-1
Sub6=-1
Sub7=-1
Sub8=-1
Azid Gain Offset=6
SubOutputPalette0=clBlack
SubBlendPalette0=0
SubOutputPalette1=clWhite
SubBlendPalette1=15
SubOutputPalette2=$001E1E1E
SubBlendPalette2=15
SubOutputPalette3=clGray
SubBlendPalette3=15
Rip subtitles=1
Min. Delay. Between Subtitles=100
Resize Subtitles=100
SVCD subtitles=0
CVD subtitles=0
Permanent subtitles=1
PAL Y-Pos=-1
NTSC Y-Pos=-1
bbMPEG MPEG1=0
bbMPEG VCD=0
bbMPEG MPEG2=0
bbMPEG SVCD=1
bbMPEG DVD=0
bbMPEG VBR=1
bbMPEG Pad VCD=0
bbMPEG Write PEC=1
bbMPEG Add Scan Offsets=1
bbMPEG Align Sequence Headers=1
bbMPEG Use Private Stream 2=0
bbMPEG Computed Bitrate=1
bbMPEG TimeStamps=0
bbMPEG Pulldown=2
bbMPEG MuxRate=0
bbMPEG Pack Size=2324
bbMPEG Packets Pack=1
bbMPEG Video Buffer=230
bbMPEG Audio 1 Buffer=4
bbMPEG Audio 2 Buffer=4
bbMPEG videoDelay Adjustment=180
bbMPEG audioDelay Adjustment=180
bbMPEG audio1Delay Adjustment=180
Use MPEGAV=0
MinsHigh1=50
MinsHigh2=76
MinsHigh3=97
MinsHigh4=125
MinsHigh5=163
NumCd1=1
NumCd2=1
NumCd3=2
NumCd4=2
NumCd5=3
NumCd6=3
CDSize 1=740
CDSize 2=800
CDSize 3=740
CDSize 4=800
CDSize 5=740
CDSize 6=800
MaxBitrate=2530
MinBitrate=300
MaxAvg=2230
MinAvg=1600
Adjust Audio Bitrate=1
Use Min. Avg.=0
Force Film=0
Movie Offset=2
CDOverlap=30
UseCDOverlap=1
FixedChapters=1
DVDChapters=0
PBCType=0
Data Preparer=dvd2svcd
Use I-Author=0
Use VCDImager=0
No images=0
Use VCDXBuild=1
Length of Chapters=300
Use TitlePicture=0
Use ChangeCD Picture=1
Use ChangeCD Picture on All=1
Use EntrySVD=0
Save XML=1
Save Movie Info=1
ProcessPriority=2
SmartDeinterlace Mode=2
SmartDeinterlace Treshold=10
SmartDeinterlace Denoise=1
SmartDeinterlace Blend=0
SmartDeinterlace Fast=1
Edit Avisynth Script file=2
Use CDMage=1
RunPerCDImage=0
RunPerCDImage Params=
RunFinal=0
RunFinal Params=
Automatic Shutdown=0
_______________________________________________________
__________________
90 % of the things people ask in THIS forum have been already answered here ; here and here


use those links befoure you start any new thread ... please

happy convertions

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Old 22nd July 2002, 15:29   #19  |  Link
Holomatrix
Still Kick'n
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 677
@ clixomano
I haven't tried doing a whole movie yet, just a chapter. Do you guys get it to work when selecting one NTSC charter with CCE?
Please test on a chapter. Thanks
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Old 22nd July 2002, 17:18   #20  |  Link
Clixo
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Portugal
Posts: 247
@holomatrix: sory dont have any NTSC dvd only avi i will try with the avi ok ?.
only have pal dvds
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happy convertions

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