Vertical Black bars in output file

airplanedude · 24th April 2004, 11:54

Hi all,

DVD-RB 0.42
EClCCE 1.81
CCE 2.5
DVD: "Das Boot" Director's Cut, German, PAL RC2

My output file shows vertical black bars on the side. Sometimes just on the right, sometimes on both sides, sometimes just on the left.
I believe this is related to what ROMBALDI has explained in one of his posts.
To crop these vertical bars off, however, the number of pixels for left and right crop would always total 20 (Found out using GKnot).
I understand I could try to manually set cropping / resizing in each of the AVS files, but with 60something of them that would be a pain in the neck.
Can someone, please, explain how getting rid of the abovementioned bars can be accomplished in a smarter way?
Is this because DVD-RB has difficulty in properly finding the right 16/9 "window" due to the majority of dark scenery in this movie?

Thanks in advance for your effort,

Airplanedude

RB · 24th April 2004, 15:58

IIRC this particular DVD is just like that, with changing vertical black bars throughout the movie. Really one of the most badly authored DVDs there is. This is not something DVd-RB can fix for you. You'll have to go through all the AVS files and insert appropriate Crop() and AddBorders() statements.

airplanedude · 24th April 2004, 19:51

Thanks RB,

I was already afraid you were going to say that...

But thanks anyway - Seems to be a project for a rainy day, though.

Airplanedude

24th April 2004, 19:55

Are those bars visible on a standalone player and a normal TV? Because a well mastered movie has black edges on the sides about half or more the size of the overscan area so nothing at the very edge (like letters) is cut out due to overscan.

emdiem · 24th April 2004, 20:41

What i understand is that you have some black bars around the video. I dont really know in perfect english how to tell you what they are, but here is a little image that I can help you with.

(NTSC)

If you look at this image (outkast - hey ya) you will see that it has black bars , border. Some videos just have on right and left side, some on top and bottom.

Then you see my markings within the image.

Outher marking is the safe area, keep things inside that area and it will be shown on the TV. The other marking is safe area for subtext, tv logo etc etc.

Everything outside the outher marking wont be visible on a TV. This area outside is used for tv stations to broadcast special signals like programinfo (also more stuff to it)

Why shooting bigger scale than the TV can handle? well its becosue you wont get a border within the picture on the TV, its better to let some slide out so the image on the TV is fully filled, and the frame on the TV cutts in some.

This is what i foudn out when asking some friends at a tv station, might not be 100% correct, but with the image in hand you also see that a bit is lost when viewd on standalone DVD+TV

24th April 2004, 20:47

Thanks for the good example emdiem.

Some background though:

The overscan area's original purpose was the following: Only some 10 years ago (and still today to a degree) the CRT (Cathod Ray Tube) of a TV would stretch the image onscreen according to temperature. So when there was almost black picture the image would shrink, and when there was alot of white it would expand.

In addition to this, the picture would warp and bulge if there was a white object onscreen but the rest was dark. This causes "S" like warping on the edges of the picture. The overscan area is made so that this ugly border cant be seen and that the "full area" of the visible tube is used.

airplanedude · 24th April 2004, 21:33

Thanks alot Emdiem and Joergen!

I knew about this overscanning, but on my software DVD Player the black bars looked that wide to me, that I thought they're way out of the overscan area. Therefore I thought, why waste a DVD on that? Fix it first.

But you guys were right. I just burned it, and on my standalone player it looks just fine, no bars visible. I did not know about the width of the overscan area. How wide is it (Pal/NTSC)?

Lesson learnt: Try the standalone player first, then worry about what to do next.

Thanks again and have a nice weekend,

Airplanedude

emdiem · 26th April 2004, 23:31

Use DVDRW disks for testing!

PAL D1/DV, 720 x 576
Safe are is 648 x 520pixels from center.

left/right: 36 px
top/bottom: 29 px

inner safe area for subs and TVlogo:
left/right: 72 px
top/bottom: 58 pz

NTSC DV 720 x 480
left/right: 36 px
top/bottom: 24 px

and inner safe is just double the numbers .. 72 / 48

these i toke from Photoshop CS, and is what Adobe sais IS the correct pixels

airplanedude · 27th April 2004, 17:17

Thanks Emdiem for the info!

Cheers,

Airplanedude

24th April 2004, 11:54	#1 \| Link
airplanedude Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7	Vertical Black bars in output file Hi all, DVD-RB 0.42 EClCCE 1.81 CCE 2.5 DVD: "Das Boot" Director's Cut, German, PAL RC2 My output file shows vertical black bars on the side. Sometimes just on the right, sometimes on both sides, sometimes just on the left. I believe this is related to what ROMBALDI has explained in one of his posts. To crop these vertical bars off, however, the number of pixels for left and right crop would always total 20 (Found out using GKnot). I understand I could try to manually set cropping / resizing in each of the AVS files, but with 60something of them that would be a pain in the neck. Can someone, please, explain how getting rid of the abovementioned bars can be accomplished in a smarter way? Is this because DVD-RB has difficulty in properly finding the right 16/9 "window" due to the majority of dark scenery in this movie? Thanks in advance for your effort, Airplanedude

24th April 2004, 15:58	#2 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	IIRC this particular DVD is just like that, with changing vertical black bars throughout the movie. Really one of the most badly authored DVDs there is. This is not something DVd-RB can fix for you. You'll have to go through all the AVS files and insert appropriate Crop() and AddBorders() statements. __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

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24th April 2004, 19:51	#3 \| Link
airplanedude Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7	Thanks RB, I was already afraid you were going to say that... But thanks anyway - Seems to be a project for a rainy day, though. Airplanedude

24th April 2004, 19:55	#4 \| Link
Joergen Guest Posts: n/a	Are those bars visible on a standalone player and a normal TV? Because a well mastered movie has black edges on the sides about half or more the size of the overscan area so nothing at the very edge (like letters) is cut out due to overscan.

24th April 2004, 20:41	#5 \| Link
emdiem Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 105	What i understand is that you have some black bars around the video. I dont really know in perfect english how to tell you what they are, but here is a little image that I can help you with. (NTSC) If you look at this image (outkast - hey ya) you will see that it has black bars , border. Some videos just have on right and left side, some on top and bottom. Then you see my markings within the image. Outher marking is the safe area, keep things inside that area and it will be shown on the TV. The other marking is safe area for subtext, tv logo etc etc. Everything outside the outher marking wont be visible on a TV. This area outside is used for tv stations to broadcast special signals like programinfo (also more stuff to it) Why shooting bigger scale than the TV can handle? well its becosue you wont get a border within the picture on the TV, its better to let some slide out so the image on the TV is fully filled, and the frame on the TV cutts in some. This is what i foudn out when asking some friends at a tv station, might not be 100% correct, but with the image in hand you also see that a bit is lost when viewd on standalone DVD+TV

24th April 2004, 20:47	#6 \| Link
Joergen Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the good example emdiem. Some background though: The overscan area's original purpose was the following: Only some 10 years ago (and still today to a degree) the CRT (Cathod Ray Tube) of a TV would stretch the image onscreen according to temperature. So when there was almost black picture the image would shrink, and when there was alot of white it would expand. In addition to this, the picture would warp and bulge if there was a white object onscreen but the rest was dark. This causes "S" like warping on the edges of the picture. The overscan area is made so that this ugly border cant be seen and that the "full area" of the visible tube is used.

24th April 2004, 21:33	#7 \| Link
airplanedude Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7	Thanks alot Emdiem and Joergen! I knew about this overscanning, but on my software DVD Player the black bars looked that wide to me, that I thought they're way out of the overscan area. Therefore I thought, why waste a DVD on that? Fix it first. But you guys were right. I just burned it, and on my standalone player it looks just fine, no bars visible. I did not know about the width of the overscan area. How wide is it (Pal/NTSC)? Lesson learnt: Try the standalone player first, then worry about what to do next. Thanks again and have a nice weekend, Airplanedude

26th April 2004, 23:31	#8 \| Link
emdiem Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 105	Use DVDRW disks for testing! PAL D1/DV, 720 x 576 Safe are is 648 x 520pixels from center. left/right: 36 px top/bottom: 29 px inner safe area for subs and TVlogo: left/right: 72 px top/bottom: 58 pz NTSC DV 720 x 480 left/right: 36 px top/bottom: 24 px and inner safe is just double the numbers .. 72 / 48 these i toke from Photoshop CS, and is what Adobe sais IS the correct pixels

27th April 2004, 17:17	#9 \| Link
airplanedude Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7	Thanks Emdiem for the info! Cheers, Airplanedude