Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th January 2010, 16:07   #2021  |  Link
noee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 530
FYI, 24Hz w/madVR:

You folks that are having tearing with madVR/24Hz. I just upgraded to the latest FFdshow and MPC-HC and using Reclock b60. 24Hz with 23.976 material (reclocked) is now perfect! I have the Reclock vsynch off and the madVR tearing unchecked. Playback decoding with FFdshowMT on LG37 24Hz with the Microsoft ATI drivers dated 8/15/09. HD2600XT.

They made some presenter fixes in MPC-HC for all renderers because madVR is now faster and it doesn't hiccup as much at startup. Also, when seeking, it doesn't freeze or crash MPC. It's a solid build (b1529).
noee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2010, 18:41   #2022  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,171
what are the advantages and disadvantages of having vsync off PQ wise?

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 19th January 2010 at 18:45.
Thunderbolt8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2010, 18:50   #2023  |  Link
iSeries
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 601
@noee - what O/S? With W7 / MPC b1529 / Reclock (no vsync correction) / ATI4550 (CCC 9.12, TV set to 24hz), with Aero on I get stuttering, and with Aero off I get horizontal tearing about a fifth of the way up from the bottom of the screen. Same result with older MPC builds. Unusable for me at present, the only thing working for me is EVR CP with disable desktop composition checked (and to be fair this is perfectly smooth).
iSeries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th January 2010, 20:17   #2024  |  Link
noee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 530
@iSeries:
I'm on Win7 Ult x64. I have Aero off (but on doesn't matter). I got so sick of the 9.10, 9.11 and 9.12 ATI drivers not working right with my older card, I just decided to clean ATI off and let the Windows Update do it's thing. I guess I should've kept the 4770. Looks like I'm headed for a 5670 anyway.

I get a tremendous experience as well with Ar-jar's EVR-Sych and FFDshow RGB out and reclock.

I still have one issue with some process kicking off every now and then and it copies the screen to the clipboard about 1000 times, then exits, but when this happens, my video playback performance suffers badly. I've been unable to identify this, I think it's the video driver. This machine is clean.
noee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 01:10   #2025  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
what are the advantages and disadvantages of having vsync off PQ wise?
I would leave it "application dependent", mVR must be forcing it anyway...you can look it up w/ RivaTuner and IIRC it will show as "forced" in mVR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noee View Post
some process kicking off every now and then and it copies the screen to the clipboard about 1000 times, then exits, but when this happens, my video playback performance suffers badly.
humm??
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 01:25   #2026  |  Link
DigitalLF
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 119
i found something wonderful in latest MPC-HC it can now switch @Hz depending on the movie.... this does not work with MadVR so far... i really really hope it will in a near future...

it could be fixed by MPC-HC team i guess... just change the Hz and wait for it to set and _THEN_ load the movie...

just wanted you all to know...
DigitalLF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 09:13   #2027  |  Link
totalz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: confusion
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
try disabling its built-in video transform filter...it defaults to YUY2, and that makes mVR rather upset

ideally you should run KMP in superspeed mode, to get rid of all its built-in filters...I've also deleted most DLL's in its folder FWIW.
leeperry, thanks for the reply,

I think I disabled all the transform filter, but I'm not sure! I have seen pic that ppl can choose madVR under Video Processing - Renderer, but I just don't have that in the list. However, I can find it under System Filter Manager!

About the YUY2, I have de-selected all YV in Video Processing - Output Colorspaces...

===

update: I got it, must use 2.9.4.1436 b1!!

ALSO, how come all the .ytp files are "empty" (0 size) in madTestPatternSource? I really want to use those test patterns to see the improvement. Cause I cannot find any difference for all the video I tried...

Last edited by totalz; 20th January 2010 at 09:36.
totalz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 09:16   #2028  |  Link
namaiki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,073
Maybe you need a more recent version of KMP?
namaiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 10:40   #2029  |  Link
Alante
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by totalz View Post

update: I got it, must use 2.9.4.1436 b1!!

ALSO, how come all the .ytp files are "empty" (0 size) in madTestPatternSource? I really want to use those test patterns to see the improvement. Cause I cannot find any difference for all the video I tried...
Some say (even the creator of madVR) that you need a specific equipment to see any difference, a High - End Projector, a High-End TV with optional refresh rates or an old CRT and all of them need to bee professionally calibrated. But not with the naked eye, you need to zoom in as shown in the 1'st page of this topic. Maybe only on the projector could be noticeable with naked eye, don't know for sure... yet theoretically seems it should work. This Video Render was not meant for LCD Monitors, most keep telling me that directly or indirectly...

Last edited by Alante; 20th January 2010 at 10:43.
Alante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 11:35   #2030  |  Link
namaiki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alante View Post
This Video Render was not meant for LCD Monitors, most keep telling me that directly or indirectly...
MadVR's default upscaling algorithm settings are more neutral than simple bilinear or bicubic resizing. I think people should be able to notice at least that on an LCD TV, when playing something that is not native resolution.

Last edited by namaiki; 20th January 2010 at 11:37.
namaiki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 11:38   #2031  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alante View Post
Some say (even the creator of madVR)
Welcome to my ignore list.

Please everybody simply ignore whatever Alante says. For your interest, you can reach the ignore list feature in "User CP -> Edit Ignore List".

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalz View Post
Cause I cannot find any difference for all the video I tried...
madVR aims to reach mathematically perfect playback quality. Other renderers usually fall short in quality. However, if the other renderers are reasonably close (some are, depending on your GPU, driver version and OS), it will be difficult to see the difference with normal video content. You may be able to see differences with "red on black" scenes (see screenshots 1st page), or with some "foggy" scenes (very slight brightness/color changes over large image areas, similar to gray ramps), or when zooming. Further madVR quality improvements may be in store for future versions (e.g. further improved chroma upsampling quality). One important benefit of madVR is that the image quality is identical, regardless of which graphics card, OS or driver version you're using (as long as the GPU is fast enough). This is definitely not the case with most other renderers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalz View Post
how come all the .ytp files are "empty" (0 size) in madTestPatternSource?
They are supposed to be empty. Their only purpose is to start the test pattern source filter. Only their file name is used. Just drag the ytp files to your media player after you've registered the madTestPatternSource filter...
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 12:50   #2032  |  Link
Andy o
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 928
With an ATI 4670, I did see the difference with the patterns with madVR and the usual EVR-CP. The only time I got close to madVR was with ffdshow's high-quality RGB conversion with dithering.

On real-life content, I also saw a difference, with red text on a Colbert Report episode.

madshi, the new ATI 5000 cards actually output 30-bit deep color with Windows 7. Do you have any thoughts on that, as in could it help madVR or could madVR or EVR be optimized for that?
Andy o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 15:31   #2033  |  Link
Alante
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Welcome to my ignore list.

Please everybody simply ignore whatever Alante says.
......


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
And btw, who told you that watching movies on a computer monitor would be a good idea? For movie watching you should use a display which is capable of using refresh rates that match the usual movie frame rates.
Basic VB ignore list is not so efficient, but if you want, I could teach you how to remove my posts entirely, with a simple add-on for FireFox. It's real simple, use: Greasemonkey + this script).
Alante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 15:54   #2034  |  Link
owais
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 44
What is dropped frame guys i m getting dropped frames about 15
owais is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 16:15   #2035  |  Link
chuuey
Registered User
 
chuuey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Welcome to my ignore list.

Please everybody simply ignore whatever Alante says. For your interest, you can reach the ignore list feature in "User CP -> Edit Ignore List".


madVR aims to reach mathematically perfect playback quality. Other renderers usually fall short in quality. However, if the other renderers are reasonably close (some are, depending on your GPU, driver version and OS), it will be difficult to see the difference with normal video content. You may be able to see differences with "red on black" scenes (see screenshots 1st page), or with some "foggy" scenes (very slight brightness/color changes over large image areas, similar to gray ramps), or when zooming. Further madVR quality improvements may be in store for future versions (e.g. further improved chroma upsampling quality). One important benefit of madVR is that the image quality is identical, regardless of which graphics card, OS or driver version you're using (as long as the GPU is fast enough). This is definitely not the case with most other renderers.


They are supposed to be empty. Their only purpose is to start the test pattern source filter. Only their file name is used. Just drag the ytp files to your media player after you've registered the madTestPatternSource filter...
love the renderer madshi, are you considering a 64bit version in future?
chuuey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 16:30   #2036  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Further madVR quality improvements may be in store for future versions
I'd love to see D3D exclusive mode in the next release, if any possible
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
One important benefit of madVR is that the image quality is identical, regardless of which graphics card
you would have to control how TMDS is encoded to be able to guarantee that...IME(and friends' too) nvidia and ati cards definitely don't output the same picture, even w/ HR

this test seems to prove that the DVI output is very much TMDS encoder-dependent: http://translate.google.com/translat...n&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Last edited by leeperry; 20th January 2010 at 20:48.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 17:57   #2037  |  Link
racerxnet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ILLINIOS
Posts: 50
Quote:
madshi, the new ATI 5000 cards actually output 30-bit deep color with Windows 7. Do you have any thoughts on that, as in could it help madVR or could madVR or EVR be optimized for that?
I'm not sure there would be a benefit with the older 8 bit LCD panels as they could not use the extra information. This being My LCD TV. Panel is a Chi Mei V420H1-L07

MAK
racerxnet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 19:22   #2038  |  Link
kostik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 128
Is there ETA for the next release? just cant wait
and t6o the one who said there is no quellity difference between madvr and others is wrong,
On my pioneer 428XD I see difference especially in colors .
kostik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 22:55   #2039  |  Link
janos666
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 451
My hardwares: Q6600 @ 3600Mhz, Radeon HD 5850
My softwares: Windows 7 x64 with recent DX, VC, .NET, and msXML redists ; Catalyst 9.12 hotfix ; FFDShow_build3200_ilc10_x86 ; MPC-HC_build1.3.1249.0_x86 ; AviSynth 2.6alpha_090927 ; t3dlut v1.0, madvr v0.11

I unpacked madvr.zip to c:\Program Files (x86)\madvr and I registered it with the intall.bat file.

I can use the renderer and I can access it's settings. But I have some weird problems and confusing questions:

1: The Source resolution -> Monitor resolution resize looks like it using the nearest neighborhood method. Any 480p and 720p movies look ugly in full-screen mode. 1080p source (and when I rescale 720p to 1080p with FFDShow) is nice.

2: It would not load my 3dlut files. I used the equipped cr3dlut to create them and they are working with t3dlut. I copied them to the upper directory (which is the install directory) and I checked the "use 3dlut" box on the settings tab (and I can see the change in the settings.ini which showed up in the install directory). May be it would use "HD - Video" instead of "HD - PC", or I did not find out the correct filename. I do not know.

3: I can use t3dlut, and I can see a gamut converted image with madvr. (It is easy to tell with a wide-gamut display.) This is very odd because madvr should accept YV12 only and t3dlut has to output RGB32 only. There is a YUY2 stage before the gamut converted RGB32 so the output could not be YV12 anymore when I do not apply any further color space conversion (which I would not).

So, my questions:
- What is the trick with the input/output color space limitations?
- Where should they located and what should be the exact name for the 3dlut files?
- Is it a bug with the full-screen resize or is it a feature which would be added later? (I could read some full-screen related stuff in the readme...)

May be I will have enough CPU power for full-screen resize with FFDShow when madvr will handle the gamut conversion (t3dlut would eat my CPU, there is no free resource to do a software resize - mostly because mpchc.exe would not use more then 2 cores, not even when I set every filter to create 4 threads...).

And: Thanks for this renderer. I would be very happy with it when it will work as it meant to work.

Last edited by janos666; 20th January 2010 at 23:03.
janos666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2010, 23:13   #2040  |  Link
flanger216
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 140
Couple quick theoretical questions:

My display lets you select between a standard and a wide color-space mode. Though I highly suspect the answer is "no," would there be any benefit to enabling the wide mode on the TV, creating a custom LUT tailored to that color space, and using that LUT in madVR? Would such a setup yield more accurate color reproduction, or would I just be wasting time, or possibly even introducing interpolation inaccuracies and other such errors?

My display chain also supports xvYCC. I again suspect the answer is no, but is this useful or usable by madVR in any way?

Finally, my LCD display has a 10-bit panel. I know the new EVR-custom renderer in MPC-HC supports 10-bit surfaces and output; can madVR be setup in a similar way, to dither to 10-bits instead of 8?

Sorry about all this... I'm usually pretty good with figuring this stuff out, but the exact interrelationships between color spaces, gamuts, color bit-depths, surface bit-depths and LUTs remain utterly overwhelming for me

Last edited by flanger216; 20th January 2010 at 23:16.
flanger216 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.