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Old 4th July 2014, 03:36   #1041  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
I'm curious what switches it sends to the Lame encoder.
You can see the full command-line generated by LameXP in the log. Or just inspect the LAME process with a proper taskmanager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
I set it up to use Version 3.98.4 - any issue there in terms of the generated switches and compatibility ?
Probably not.

But I don't test explicitly with old LAME versions (especially not with one that is more than 4 years old), only with the up-to-date one that is included in LameXP. So, no guarantees

Any particular reason why you want to use such an outdated LAME version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
My mp3 came out to be 5.39 MB. using compression/QL2 (default) and Advanced Option/High Quality (default).

However, when I executed Lame from the command line using the same WAV file, I get an mp3 of 5.44 MB.
Why the discrepancy ? Here's my command line:
lame.exe -h -V 2 samp8.wav samp8_cmd_v2qh.mp3
Don't know. Selecting "High Quality (default)" will set the "-q2" switch. And since "-h" is simply an alias for "-q2", there should be no difference - given you also selected the same VBR level.

But you may wish to actually compare the command-lines in order to make sure you hadn't set any extra options in LameXP...
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 4th July 2014 at 03:43.
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Old 4th July 2014, 09:00   #1042  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR View Post
You can see the full command-line generated by LameXP in the log. Or just inspect the LAME process with a proper taskmanager.



Probably not.

But I don't test explicitly with old LAME versions (especially not with one that is more than 4 years old), only with the up-to-date one that is included in LameXP. So, no guarantees

Any particular reason why you want to use such an outdated LAME version?



Don't know. Selecting "High Quality (default)" will set the "-q2" switch. And since "-h" is simply an alias for "-q2", there should be no difference - given you also selected the same VBR level.

But you may wish to actually compare the command-lines in order to make sure you hadn't set any extra options in LameXP...

I think I got mixed up with something else. LameXP is using it's own internal Lame mp3 encoder?
I see that it copies a bunch of files to a sub-folder in the temp directory. The version that is there is 3.99 release 5, 469KB.

Version 3.98.4 was the version I was testing and comparing the result using the CMD prompt.
I assume it's not possible to override the version LameXP is using?

3.98.4 was a bit of a cult version, in terms of sound quality, many seem to prefer to more recent versions.
I did a test of 3.99.5 in foobar2000 compared to 3.98.4 and the newer version sounded poor in comparison.
(although once again, I'm not sure what arguments are being passed to the encoder)

At least in the LameXP log, I can see what its doing. Thanks for that tip.
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Old 4th July 2014, 11:13   #1043  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
I think I got mixed up with something else. LameXP is using it's own internal Lame mp3 encoder?
Yes, it does ship with its own LAME encoder binary. It's a fully self-container application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
I see that it copies a bunch of files to a sub-folder in the temp directory. The version that is there is 3.99 release 5, 469KB.
Exactly. But you can also see the "third-party software" section in the About screen for list of tools included...

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
Version 3.98.4 was the version I was testing and comparing the result using the CMD prompt.
So if you were actually using two different LAME versions, it's clear why results don't match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
I assume it's not possible to override the version LameXP is using?
It is! See the documentation:
http://lamexp.sourceforge.net/doc/FAQ.html#3d6684e9

Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
3.98.4 was a bit of a cult version, in terms of sound quality, many seem to prefer to more recent versions.
Is there any serious listening test that substantiates this theory?
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Old 5th July 2014, 08:14   #1044  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR View Post
Yes, it does ship with its own LAME encoder binary. It's a fully self-container application.



Exactly. But you can also see the "third-party software" section in the About screen for list of tools included...



So if you were actually using two different LAME versions, it's clear why results don't match.



It is! See the documentation:
http://lamexp.sourceforge.net/doc/FAQ.html#3d6684e9



Is there any serious listening test that substantiates this theory?
If you peruse the www.hydrogenaud.io forums, there's plenty of discussion, but no consensus. Lots of talk about whether the result
is "transparent" (What ever that means). I think some of it depends on the material; This afternoon I took 5 or 6 uncompressed WAV files of
different kinds of music and encoded some mp3's at the command line using 3.98.4 and 3.99.5 using v1, v2 & v5 all with the -h switch.

To me neither of them sounds like the WAV file. The uncompressed music just has more "presence" that the mp3's aren't quite able
to reach. I can hear in some of the samples that v1 sounds better than v2. The point is, for playing in the car,
even a playlist on your favorite media player over the computer speakers, the default settings are mostly good enough.
HD audio sounds better than CD @ 44.1 khZ 16 bits, but does that mean you can never enjoy your CD's again,
because in the back of your mind you know there's something better. I hope not!

Some music sounds better on vinyl. The one that I notice the most is Carole Kings Tapestry. I even have an audio cassette
that was recorded on a hifi from vinyl that retains the warmth of the vinyl, and to my ears, sounds better than
the CD, even the remastered version from a few years ago.


I like your program, I'll use it as is, no need to substitute a different Lame. It's been some years since I used it,
so long I actually forgot about it. I maintain a folder for these "portable" apps, and right next to this one,
I was surprised to see Lame XP .2008 12-24 version 3.07. so it's been a while since I looked at it.

Thanks again.
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Old 5th July 2014, 08:40   #1045  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
"transparent" (What ever that means).
It means whether or not you can hear a difference between the original and converted file.

If you cannot hear a difference, it is transparent.

More here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transp...compression%29
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Old 5th July 2014, 18:48   #1046  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike20021969 View Post
It means whether or not you can hear a difference between the original and converted file.

If you cannot hear a difference, it is transparent.

More here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transp...compression%29
Some people can't hear the difference between 128 and 320 kbps mp3. How is the "ear of the beholder"
taken into account? I know that when I converted some of my video to mpeg-2 DVD,
the audio (different types) was converted to ac3-2-channel. I found 256 kbps ac3 was at the point where this
kind of conversion sounded "transparent" - in contrast 224 kbps ac3 sounded a little "pinched".
But this is not music. It's a typical video, some voices, some environmental sounds, etc,etc.

I think what I'm trying to say is that when we listen to music we listen with a much more critical ear.
Especially when we convert them ourselves. Through my local library, they have a thing where you can download
5 free music tracks a week. I've downloaded some and so far I've seen 192 and 256 kbps mp3.
Not having a better source to immediately compare to, and the fact that they came from the library and were free,
gives me a psychological "freedom" to enjoy them as-is with out worrying about the sound quality.
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Old 7th July 2014, 08:14   #1047  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
Some people can't hear the difference between 128 and 320 kbps mp3. How is the "ear of the beholder"
taken into account? I know that when I converted some of my video to mpeg-2 DVD,
the audio (different types) was converted to ac3-2-channel. I found 256 kbps ac3 was at the point where this
kind of conversion sounded "transparent" - in contrast 224 kbps ac3 sounded a little "pinched".
But this is not music. It's a typical video, some voices, some environmental sounds, etc,etc.

I think what I'm trying to say is that when we listen to music we listen with a much more critical ear.
Especially when we convert them ourselves. Through my local library, they have a thing where you can download
5 free music tracks a week. I've downloaded some and so far I've seen 192 and 256 kbps mp3.
Not having a better source to immediately compare to, and the fact that they came from the library and were free,
gives me a psychological "freedom" to enjoy them as-is with out worrying about the sound quality.
Transparent has two meanings: One person can't tell a difference between two versions, or the majority of trained people can't. (HA is quite a bit more elite than the general population.) Presets are based on the second meaning, but you should base your decision on the first meaning. If you happen to have golden ears or prefer an EQ that breaks psychoaudio assumptions, then what's stopping you from using more bits, or an older version, or FLAC/not re-encoding? No one will judge you, in fact, no one cares. It's your collection, do what makes sense to you.
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Old 3rd August 2014, 01:45   #1048  |  Link
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Happy 10th anniversary and thanks for LameXP and AVIDemux!
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Old 17th August 2014, 18:49   #1049  |  Link
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LameXP v4.11 Alpha-2

Quote:
Changes between v4.10 and v4.11 [unreleased]:
* Updated mpg123 decoder to v1.20.1 (2014-06-17), compiled with GCC 4.9.0
* Updated Vorbis encoder to OggEnc v2.87 (2014-06-24), using libvorbis v1.3.4 and aoTuV b6.03_2014
* Updated Vorbis decoder to OggDec v1.10.1 (2014-06-25), using libVorbis v1.3.4
* Fixed potential crash in Cue Sheet importer (occurred when *all* input files were missing)
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 25th December 2014 at 14:32.
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Old 6th October 2014, 14:10   #1050  |  Link
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LameXP v4.11 Alpha-3

Quote:
Changes between v4.10 and v4.11 [unreleased]:
* Updated MediaInfo to v0.7.70 (2014-09-03), compiled with ICL 15.0 and MSVC 12.0
* Updated Opus libraries to v1.1.x and Opus-Tools v0.1.9 to latest Git Master (2014-10-04)

* Updated mpg123 decoder to v1.20.1 (2014-06-17), compiled with GCC 4.9.0
* Updated Vorbis encoder to OggEnc v2.87 (2014-06-24), using libvorbis v1.3.4 and aoTuV b6.03_2014
* Updated Vorbis decoder to OggDec v1.10.1 (2014-06-25), using libVorbis v1.3.4
* Fixed potential crash in Cue Sheet importer (occurred when *all* input files were missing)
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 25th December 2014 at 14:32.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 12:08   #1051  |  Link
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I've been told, for 24 bits flac files encoded with LameXP, that the tag HDCD is not set. Is it possible to handle this ?
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Old 2nd November 2014, 14:38   #1052  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
I've been told, for 24 bits flac files encoded with LameXP, that the tag HDCD is not set. Is it possible to handle this ?
I have no idea what "the tag HDCD" is

Anyway, LameXP is just a fron-end and uses the official FLAC encoder by Xiph.org (currently version 1.3.0, which should be the latest). So, unless you think that LameXP is calling the FLAC encoder with the "wrong" arguments, that's probably something you'd have to discuss with the FLAC developers. And if you do think LameXP should be calling FLAC in a different way, then please be more specific. I cannot see anything related to "tag HDCD" in the FLAC help screen...
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Old 3rd November 2014, 09:55   #1053  |  Link
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In that case, don't bother. I've made for someone mkv file with flac from 24 bits wave for audio, encoded with LameXP.
The feedback was :
- Encode is not clean, because there is "Encoded with LameXP" in the comment tag...
I've been stunned by this stupid comment !
- The bit (or tag, don't know) HDCD is set to 0. 1 should had been better.
If it's something you don't know about, never mind.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:11   #1054  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
The feedback was :
- Encode is not clean, because there is "Encoded with LameXP" in the comment tag...
Yes, LameXP adds the comment as a meta tag, by default. But in what way is this "not clean", please?

If you don't like it, you can clear the comment field at any time or simply input your own comment text there. See the "Meta Data" tab.

Of course it also should be straight forward to edit or remove the meta tags of an existing FLAC file.

(Despite of its name, Mp3tag is capable of editing FLAC tags)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpsdr View Post
- The bit (or tag, don't know) HDCD is set to 0. 1 should had been better.
If it's something you don't know about, never mind.
I still have no idea what the purpose of that "HDCD" tag is.

And is FLAC supposed to add this automatically or is the front-end supposed to add it explicitly? In the latter case: Under what circumstances?

Well, at this point it's not even clear whether this so-called "HDCD tag" is a bit in the FLAC header or just a custom meta tag...
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 3rd November 2014 at 17:15.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 19:53   #1055  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR View Post
But in what way is this "not clean", please?
Maybe i was not clear enough. This was the feedback from the person for who i made the mkv.
As i've stated, i found this comment nonsense.
But thanks for the tips for removing it.

I personnaly use and will still use your tool, i found it very usefull.
Thank for it.

Edit :
Ok, a little more information from "the complainer" :
Encoded with LameXP :
Code:
General
Complete name                            : P:\MPEG-2\AoT-SP1.flac
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size                                : 30.7 MiB
Duration                                 : 6mn 44s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 637 Kbps
Track name                               : AoT-SP1
Comment                                  : Encodé avec LameXP
track                                    : 25

Audio
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration                                 : 6mn 44s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 637 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 30.7 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : libFLAC 1.3.0 (UTC 2013-05-26)
Encoded with eac3to :
Code:
General
Complete name                            : I:\Op-1.flac
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size                                : 19.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 1mn 31s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 1 765 Kbps
VALID_BITS                               : 24
HDCD                                     : 0

Audio
Format                                   : FLAC
Format/Info                              : Free Lossless Audio Codec
Duration                                 : 1mn 31s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 1 765 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Stream size                              : 19.3 MiB (100%)
Writing library                          : libFLAC 1.2.1 (UTC 2007-09-17)
Don't tested with Foobar2000.

Last edited by jpsdr; 3rd November 2014 at 20:40.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:16   #1056  |  Link
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Can't reproduce

Input:


Conversion Log:
Quote:
LameXP v4.11 (Build #1577), compiled on 2014-10-10 at 15:39:16

-------------------------------

C:/Users/MuldeR/AppData/Local/Temp/ecaabf31b42a09a6/lxp_sox.exe --i E:\Samples\Audio\Uncompressed_44khz_24.wav

Input File : 'E:\Samples\Audio\Uncompressed_44khz_24.wav'
Channels : 2
Sample Rate : 44100
Precision : 24-bit
Duration : 00:03:16.16 = 8650752 samples = 14712.2 CDDA sectors
File Size : 51.9M
Bit Rate : 2.12M
Sample Encoding: 24-bit Signed Integer PCM

Exited with code: 0x0000

-------------------------------

C:/Users/MuldeR/AppData/Local/Temp/ecaabf31b42a09a6/lxp_flac.exe -8 --channel-map=none -T "title=Uncompressed 44khz 24" -T "comment=Kodiert mit LameXP" -T track=1 -f -o C:\Users\MuldeR\Music\Uncompressed_44khz_24.flac E:\Samples\Audio\Uncompressed_44khz_24.wav

flac 1.3.0, Copyright (C) 2000-2009, 2011-2013 Josh Coalson & Xiph.Org Foundation
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions. Type `flac' for details.
Uncompressed_44khz_24.wav: WARNING: skipping unknown chunk 'fact' (use --keep-foreign-metadata to keep)
wrote 21987923 bytes, ratio=0,424

Exited with code: 0x0000
Output:
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Old 3rd November 2014, 22:23   #1057  |  Link
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In that case, maybe eac3to add something more on his own on the flac header, not added by flac.exe, but still compliant to flac standard/header...?
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Old 3rd November 2014, 22:33   #1058  |  Link
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jpsdr,

Out of interest, what application was used to back-up the HDCD?

I'm not aware of any audio CD back-up application that's able to make use of the HDCD flag even when creating PCM file back-up's!
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Old 3rd November 2014, 23:39   #1059  |  Link
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Absolutely none, it's just a 24 bit audio wave file extracted from a Blu-Ray m2ts. It's not from CD audio, and i don't know any application able to do it, and i didn't even know about HDCD 2 days ago...
I was just complained to about the fact i described, and so warned that LameXP may be less reliable because unable to handle this feature, but eac3to can... It seems that "this HDCD" may be used on other files/tracks than on CD. I don't know, and don't want to bother Lord Mulder too much if he also doesn't know about it.
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Old 4th November 2014, 01:26   #1060  |  Link
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HDCD is modern ADPCM: Give more bits to soft sounds and less to loud sounds. The HDCD tag just tells the player (only dbPowerAmp understands it) to uncompress it back in 24bit when playing, otherwise it sounds much too loud. Your friend is definitely spouting nonsense if he wants the tag added, but he can add it himself if he wants, it's just a plain old tag.
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