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Old 24th October 2006, 15:32   #181  |  Link
xyloy
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Yup, as you said: "think before you speak".
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Old 24th October 2006, 15:40   #182  |  Link
Sharktooth
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right... clearly my fault. sorry.
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Old 24th October 2006, 20:22   #183  |  Link
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Good way to suit both sides:

very often i do zero pass.

i.e. i haev AVS which I encode in vdub into avi (which could be >100gb since i often do HD resolution), and then use simple bat file to encode with x264 cli.

The only drawback is huge harddrive space required, but it's faster and far more reliable compared to straight-from-avs encoding by x264. If you have second machine the advantages of such approach outweight any drawbacks, making both vfw x264 and even MeGUI redundant.
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Old 24th October 2006, 23:17   #184  |  Link
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Really, you guys shouldn't give bond a reason to strike or ban you..............................





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Old 2nd November 2006, 11:00   #185  |  Link
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Well, there just ..... might ..... be a MPEG4/AVC-codec that will be as easy to use as XviD ..... XviD itself

Quote from the new site:
Quote:
The upcoming development branch Xvid 2.0 adds support for MPEG-4 advanced video coding (AVC) de- and encoding up to High Profile and dramatically advances upon the compression performance of earlier Xvid versions.
Taken from this page (@ subsection Goals).

Maybe this codec will enable us to keep using our currect software-packages/tools, only requiring updating of the codec.
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Old 21st November 2006, 23:31   #186  |  Link
DeathTheSheep
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Hey, sorry for the long wait.

A new version of the guide and new VfW builds can be found at my new page: DeathTheSheep United: The ultimate x264 VFW spot has been born!

New version of the guide, new VfW builds, new (small) forum.... What's not to love? Check it out today!
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Last edited by DeathTheSheep; 29th November 2006 at 20:47.
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Old 21st November 2006, 23:47   #187  |  Link
3ngel
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I have only one question DeathTheSheep:

How do you resolve the fact that using VFW in vdub and being forced to save as mkv, this leads vdub to create a broken mkv resulting in desynched A/V file (for a VFR x264)?
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Old 22nd November 2006, 00:06   #188  |  Link
DeathTheSheep
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Quote:
How do you resolve the fact that using VFW in vdub and being forced to save as mkv, this leads vdub to create a broken mkv resulting in desynched A/V file (for a VFR x264)?
Emphasis mine
I would personally resolve the fact as so: VfW goes with AVI, not MKV, and "don't use ancient VdubMOD" when it doesn't work right

Seriously, though, if you *really really really really* want your avi busted into an mkv, you'd have to:
1. Rip out video.
2. Mux to mkv.

Yes, it's 2 steps, not 1, so I'd stick with VfW in AVI, if I were you. Or maybe, if I were really you, I wouldn't use VfW at all for my needs (VFR MKVs and whatnot)! In your case, I'd use that excellent GUI made by leiming2006 (or some other chunky GUI to do whatever chunky tasks you might have to do with that kinda chunky stuff).

Well, have fun!
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Last edited by DeathTheSheep; 22nd November 2006 at 00:11.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 00:16   #189  |  Link
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No, pheraps i havent' explained, or you havent' understood, or pheraps i've not understood ad all your VFW project

So, if i've understood, you're talking about VFW for x264 right?
If i have to compress using x264 with more than 0 bframe i have to use mkv because x264 outputs a VFR (variable frame rate) 264 and vdub (not mod) doesn't support mkv at all.
For what i know avi doesn't support VFR.
So in what situation your VFW x264 gui is useful?

EDIT: Anyway, i'll try the leiming2006 gui, thanks.

Last edited by 3ngel; 22nd November 2006 at 00:27.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 00:40   #190  |  Link
DeathTheSheep
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Well, you use it like XviD. It's VfW! The VfW doesn't mess with VFR in the first place (the closest thing to VFR in an AVI is a [D] frame, or N-VOP).

Quote:
If i have to compress using x264 with more than 0 bframe i have to use mkv
Don't worry, someone is deceiving you. B-frames work fine with VfW and AVI. Check out a sample made with DTS x264 VfW with DEFAULT settings (2 b-frames): http://gabe.xw-h.com/b-frames.avi

Works like a charm, just need a decoder like CoreAVC or ffdshow to play in all DS players!
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Last edited by DeathTheSheep; 22nd November 2006 at 00:43.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 00:49   #191  |  Link
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Indeed, i had always thought that x264 would work only in MKV (sincerely i hadn't tried to encode in avi myself).
What i've tried is to use VFW x264 (3 bframes) with vdubmod and mkv, and i got desynched AV.
I'll try eventually the same setting with avi and see what happens.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 00:54   #192  |  Link
DeathTheSheep
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Sounds good! Yep, works fine with AVI, ogm, mkv, mp4, etc if you use the right tools. For AVI, some people have reported needing to set audio delay to +100ms due to some kind of B-frame lag, but I haven't noticed anything like it. And certainly not a large-scale desync, either.

Well, tell me about your results once you get them!

Cheers!
DTS
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Old 22nd November 2006, 01:00   #193  |  Link
ChronoCross
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You should note that on your site to only use vdub. Most of the people still using some of the guides for gknot which comes with vdubmod.

vdub has had alot of speed improvements and they should be using it anyway.

Perhaps you could add on some AVI -> xxxformat guides to show people what to do beyond just encoding using vfw.

btw welcome back.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 22:33   #194  |  Link
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@3ngel : you're not quite right about b-frames.

avc is different to ASP due to the fact it handles b-frames much better and allows consecutive strings of b-frames and stuff.

Yet even with 3 b-frames you can save h264 streams in avi files. But what is bad is the option called b-piramide, true gurus assure that option is not possible to implement in vfw, due to limitations of the interface itself.

The exact reasons for that are quite vague for me, so you need to ask them directly, but I trust their opinion
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Old 23rd November 2006, 21:15   #195  |  Link
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Obviously the fact that it exists and functions in avi proves that it is possible. But if you try to seek around the file, you'll get a variable amount of lag of up to # of b-frames, which can be far more maddening than the constant lag with asp (try using ffdshow-vfw with a packed bitstream file - sometimes it'll lag, sometimes it won't). That and problems splitting within a gop basically break two of vfw's best features, the only one left being extensive compatibility with editing applications.
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Old 24th November 2006, 16:21   #196  |  Link
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well, the more advanced the codecs the less the compatibility with old frameworks (VFW and AVI).
The desynching problems are very usual in those situations and using different containers (like MKV) within vdubmod wont change the situation since the bitstream is still produced by a unsupported framework.
To avoid those problems you should:
1) Prefer CBR over ABR and VBR audio
2) Prefer CBR over ABR and VBR video (but thats quite impossible)
3) Do not use b-pyramid...
4) ... or limit the number of b-frames...
5) ... or do not use b-frames at all
6) have I-Frames in coincidence with IDR Frames
7) use a fixed interleaving

As you may understand those limitations will also limit the quality of your encode but if you desperately need virtualdub (or VFW/AVI in general) those restrictions are necessary to maximze streams synchronization in VFW/AVI.

Last edited by Sharktooth; 24th November 2006 at 16:27.
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Old 24th November 2006, 20:34   #197  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharktooth View Post
To avoid those problems you should:
1) Prefer CBR over ABR and VBR audio
2) Prefer CBR over ABR and VBR video (but thats quite impossible)
3) Do not use b-pyramid...
4) ... or limit the number of b-frames...
5) ... or do not use b-frames at all
6) have I-Frames in coincidence with IDR Frames
7) use a fixed interleaving

As you may understand those limitations will also limit the quality of your encode but if you desperately need virtualdub (or VFW/AVI in general) those restrictions are necessary to maximze streams synchronization in VFW/AVI.
1) is not a problem in practice 2) you meant VFR i hope? yeah apart from 119.88fps trick avi doesn't support it.
4) 5) h264 with b-frames work very nice in avi (and even ASP mpeg4 has them)

as for 3) it is the only thing, to my knowledge, that really can't be implemented via VfW interface.
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Old 24th November 2006, 20:39   #198  |  Link
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3) B-pyramid works fine. It's the "Use as references" option in the VfW.
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Old 25th November 2006, 04:19   #199  |  Link
Sharktooth
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Originally Posted by Egh View Post
1) is not a problem in practice 2) you meant VFR i hope? yeah apart from 119.88fps trick avi doesn't support it.
4) 5) h264 with b-frames work very nice in avi (and even ASP mpeg4 has them)

as for 3) it is the only thing, to my knowledge, that really can't be implemented via VfW interface.
1) is a problem. this is the major cause for audio desynch. you can work around it... infact i said "prefer"...
2) no, i meant what i said. the problem is avi doesnt like VBR streams. also VFR is another issue...
4) and 5) b-frames are "hacked" into avi, so editing video streams with b-frames is a PITA. also the more b-frames you set the more frames you loose... (setting 5 consequent b-frames will kill the last 5 frames of a video...)
3) works but it's a hackery... also do not set too much reference frames when trying to use this option...

However if you want a compliant stream try to respect those points (expecially the 3rd and 5th) or there may be decoders that refuse to decode the video stream, or worse, you may not be able to edit your video at a later time.
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Old 25th November 2006, 05:20   #200  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sharktooth View Post
4) and 5) b-frames are "hacked" into avi, so editing video streams with b-frames is a PITA. also the more b-frames you set the more frames you loose... (setting 5 consequent b-frames will kill the last 5 frames of a video...)
Not only do you lose frames from the end, but blank frames (dropped frames) are added to the beginning. Effectively the whole clip is shifted in time by the amount of b-frames which causes audio de-synch like 3ngel wrote about.
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