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Old 17th October 2018, 00:30   #53301  |  Link
huhn
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@Manni

can you please check power state before you come to a conclusion rendertime are not that reliable.
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Old 17th October 2018, 00:36   #53302  |  Link
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Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? I cannot get RGB Full 12bpc set in NVIDIA settings for 3840x2160 23hz. I have tried setting it to YCbCr422 then changing it after that but it always resets back to YCbCr422 limited. I am on Windows 1803 and have tried multiple NVIDIA drivers to no avail.
I can set RGB Full 12 bpc in 1809 and 416.34. I simply change the refresh rate first, setting it to RGB Full 8 bpc 340x2160p23, and then after I am in 23 Hz I can set 12 bpc, this lives through reboots and similar without issue. However, this is not with a custom 23 Hz mode, with a custom mode I simply cannot use >8 bit at all.
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Old 17th October 2018, 00:49   #53303  |  Link
Manni
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@Manni

can you please check power state before you come to a conclusion rendertime are not that reliable.
Iím not sure I understand your request, but if you mean in the nVidia control panel I always set the power mode to adaptive.
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Old 17th October 2018, 00:56   #53304  |  Link
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no im' talking about the mhz the GPU runs at.
for example when my GPU has an easy task like native resolution the rendertime can look pretty high because the GPU is clocking down. while with 1080p source at UHD my rendertimes can look comparable low even through this task is much higher harder.

copyback can't cost you 9 ms that would mean the copy is so slow you can't use it for 120 FPS content because the copyback is using 100 % of the GPU. according to your sig you are running a 1080 ti so just no :-) how do i even play anything on my 1060 if a 1080 ti nearly dies to copyback.
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:12   #53305  |  Link
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no im' talking about the mhz the GPU runs at.
for example when my GPU has an easy task like native resolution the rendertime can look pretty high because the GPU is clocking down. while with 1080p source at UHD my rendertimes can look comparable low even through this task is much higher harder.

copyback can't cost you 9 ms that would mean the copy is so slow you can't use it for 120 FPS content because the copyback is using 100 % of the GPU. according to your sig you are running a 1080 ti so just no :-) how do i even play anything on my 1060 if a 1080 ti nearly dies to copyback.
I don’t understand a word of what you are saying. 22ms isn’t “dying”, it’s about half of what it has to do at 23p, and that’s with a lot of processing (HDR tonemapping with everything enabled). Copyback costs 6ms in D3D11 and 9ms in DXVA2, at least in that mode, and it does push GPU and CPU to 100%, even at native res, but again that’s with very hungry pixel shader processsing. I’m only reporting what I’m seeing. And yes, I have a 1080ti, otherwise I wouldn’t put it in my sig.
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Last edited by Manni; 17th October 2018 at 01:14.
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:15   #53306  |  Link
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you are sure your CPU is pushed to 100 %?
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:18   #53307  |  Link
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you are sure your CPU is pushed to 100 %?
According to the task manager performance tab, yes. At 4.18ghz (overclocked).
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:27   #53308  |  Link
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that's more than odd. there is nothing that should be able to push your CPU to full load when hardware decoding is used.
can you run GPU-Z go to "graphics Card" and press on the question mark to start a test. after this the PCIe information can change and that number is interesting.

the taskmanager GPU load is unreliable just an extreme example for you: https://abload.de/img/taskmanageriei29.png
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:55   #53309  |  Link
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When talking about bells and whistles, I meant in terms of HDR tone mapping. I don't consider NGU Chroma upscaling to be crucial. So, using e.g. D3D11 native decoding, with default chroma upscaling (Bicubic), and no other fancy options activated, can the 1050 Ti do 4Kp60 HDR tone mapping with measurement + highlight recovery?
Yes!

I tested with DXVA2 cb and both with and without the trade quality for performance option "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy". This is on a 1050 Ti, Windows 10 1803, Nvidia driver 416.34 (adaptive), and madVR v0.92.17 (reset to defaults, D3D11 fullscreen windowed 10 bit, tone map HDR using pixel shaders with SDR output), MPC-HC 1.8.3, LAV Video 0.73.1. Using the "Samsung Travel With my Pet HDR UHD.ts" demo, 10 bit HDR HEVC 3840x2160p60.

With compromise: 6.8 ms rendering, <0.1 ms present (no dropped frames)
With compromise and measure each frame's peak luminance: 8.8 ms (no dropped frames)
With no compromise: ~13 ms, with spikes up to ~17 ms (a few dropped frames)
With compromise and 3DLUT: ~9.5 ms, with spikes up to ~12 ms (no dropped frames)
With no compromise and 3DLUT: ~18 ms, with spikes up to ~23 ms (a lot of dropped frames)

Without compromising quality performance is very dependent on content. A 3DLUT also takes significantly more power. No compromise looks a lot better too, though as a way to get a 1050 Ti to do HDR 60 fps processing while using copy back the compromise is great. Most of my HDR is 24 fps anyway.

Edit: I redid the tests with D3D11 native decoding. Performance is even better, no compromise runs perfectly as long as I don't use a 3DLUT at the same time.

With compromise: 5.2 ms rendering (no dropped frames)
With no compromise: ~10ms, with spikes up to ~12 ms (no dropped frames)!
With compromise and 3DLUT: ~7.5 ms, with spikes up to ~10 ms (no dropped frames)
With no compromise and 3DLUT: ~12.5 ms, with spikes up to ~16 ms (a few dropped frames).

Even more tests, D3D11 cb:
With compromise: 6.8 ms
With compromise and measure each frame's peak luminance: 8.8 ms (no dropped frames)
With no compromise: ~13 ms, with spikes up to 17 ms (a few dropped frames)

Edit2: OK, testing the actual request this time (I hope).
D3D11 Native but with DXVA chroma upscaling disabled in trade quality for performance options:
No compromise: ~10ms, with spikes up to ~12 ms (no dropped frames)!
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Old 17th October 2018, 01:57   #53310  |  Link
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I don’t understand a word of what you are saying. 22ms isn’t “dying”
He's saying clock speed is dynamic and ideally you need to log gpu speed and load for a good minute or so and calculate the average from that. Simpler tasks can show higher render times since the GPU can clock a lot lower.

Madshi, any chance we could get an average rendering statistic in the OSD? Ideally being able to see clock speeds on the OSD would be useful too.

D3D11 is quite a bit more efficient on my 1060.

Last edited by ryrynz; 17th October 2018 at 07:04.
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Old 17th October 2018, 02:02   #53311  |  Link
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HDR conversation is relative free in dumb mode.

the MeasureLuminace /StrechRect shaders is significantly faster with d3d11 native is there a reason for that? i'm talking about a factor of 2-3x times faster.
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:08   #53312  |  Link
madshi
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Thanks guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
isn't black bar detection essential for many? You lose that with native.
Yes, and yes.

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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
At 1080p, a GTX 1050 Ti can't do tone mapping for 60 fps content with highlight recovery enabled. highlight recovery is the killer, as it pushes rendering times way over 16ms. This is with scale chroma separately enabled.
Is that with copyback? Does using D3D11 native decoding change anything?

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Yes!
This is without highlight recovery, though, I guess? What happens if you enable that, too?

And while we're at it, which NGU Upscaling quality (Luma only, chroma set to "normal") can the 1050 Ti do for 1080 -> 4K? Medium or High?
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:25   #53313  |  Link
huhn
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a 960 is very similar to a 1050 ti and is can do 1080p23 with NGU high easily. it uses about 20ms ~ for NGU high alone.

and be aware that the 1050 3GB is on paper faster than the 1050 ti and cheaper at the same. just a matter if you can work with the 3GB it has.

not a lot of versions to choice from but the price is great: https://geizhals.de/?cat=gra16_512&x...+(3GB%2F96bit)
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Old 17th October 2018, 08:47   #53314  |  Link
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Were you trying to find a target nits that perfectly tracked BT.2390 all the way to 100% output? The only commonality I see is that the brightness does seem to get to white too slow or too fast at the top. Maybe that is something that is lost in translation with SDR? And maybe it is close enough?
No, I want to work with measured nits but I am wandering why MadVR generated BT.2390 curve (as measured) drifts gradually (and significnatly) away from HCFR reference BT.2390 curve and then returns to being spot-on at 70% but then gets clipped at 80-90% stimulus if we know the "formula" is defined in the papers and should be the same in HCFR and MadVR. Is the 80-90% clipping part of the formula to mantain some HDR effect with low peak brightness?

If translation to SDR was the cause, I expect the PQ curve tracking would drift as well but it is not.

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That part don't make no sense. Only the 8-bit pattern should display correctly, but you shouldn't fail the black clipping test if you are clipping correctly to 175 nits. The gradient should go from right-to-left until Bar 16.
hmm...there is no bar 16, there is a clip with 64-80 bars and there is a clip with C64-C111 gradient (0.0-0.07 nits). In the former I can, with great effort and in pitch black room notice that bars 76-80 are flashing, almost un-noticebly. In the gradient clip I can see the gradient becoming VERY slightly lighter, from left to right, than the bottom black part, so I am guessing there is no crush but also that near black gradation is so barely noticable - don't know if that's a problem and it should be more noticable.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:32   #53315  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
He's saying clock speed is dynamic and ideally you need to log gpu speed and load for a good minute or so and calculate the average from that. Simpler tasks can show higher render times since the GPU can clock a lot lower.

Madshi, any chance we could get an average rendering statistic in the OSD? Ideally being able to see clock speeds on the OSD would be useful too.

D3D11 is quite a bit more efficient on my 1060.
Or set your GPU to maximum power state then the render times will be comparable on a level playing field.

For some reason, I can't get D3D11 native to work in 10bit exclusive mode on my 1060 It just freezes when I try going fullscreen. DXVA2 native is fine though.
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Old 17th October 2018, 09:55   #53316  |  Link
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The usual uninstall/reinstall graphics drivers and reset madVR. Does it work with 8bit?

For anyone downscaling 4K HDR to SDR HD, make sure you have 'scale chroma separately' checked.
Also 'Are you nuts!?' highlight recovery for HDR does wonders for clouds and other highlights and looks nicer than very high, you really want this option enabled at either of those settings I think.

SSIM 2D downlscaling for 60fps 4K content is just out of reach for a 1060 6GB and my 1080 can't quite do full madVR 4K HDR -> 1080 SDR (SSIM 2D downscaling, NGU AA chroma, ED2 Dithering, highlight recovery etc), I have to enable scale chroma separately.

Last edited by ryrynz; 18th October 2018 at 07:56.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:20   #53317  |  Link
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and be aware that the 1050 3GB is on paper faster than the 1050 ti and cheaper at the same. just a matter if you can work with the 3GB it has.
I know it was discussed couple of times but can you remind me what it can't do with 3GB? I'm interested in <=30fps content only.
Does anyone use a 3GB card here?
Maybe I can upgrade my laptop to another one with 1060 3GB version...
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:30   #53318  |  Link
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i don't have a 3 GB card so i can't say.

but i can use more than 3 GB Vram with madVR by using ngu on chroma and luma by leaving the rest in madVR normal.

because 2Gb doesn't work easily on UHD with subtitles and we are using PC you just recommend 4 gb because that's more common.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:36   #53319  |  Link
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You won't have any problems with 1080P or below on a 2GB card.
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Old 17th October 2018, 10:39   #53320  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post

For anyone downscaling 4K HDR to SDR HD, make sure you have 'scale chroma separately' checked.
Also 'Are you nuts!?' highlight recovery for HDR does wonders for clouds and other highlights and looks nicer than very high, you really want this option enabled at either of those settings I think.
I protest - at l(e)ast there is a standard now and we still seek to tweak it.
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