madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

Originally Posted by LaUs3r

I think I found the cause of this behavior. When I start mpc-hc on the LCD-TV (dual screen enabled) the composition rate always stays at 60Hz. This is the refresh rate of my PC-display (primary display). the refresh rate of the movie doesn't matter. madVR recognizes it correctly, the display refresh rate is changes accordingly but the composition rate always stays at 60Hz.
If I switch to single screen, so only using the LCD-TV, everything works great and the composition rate is changed accordingly.

I'm not sure if Windows is able to use different composition rates for primary and secondary monitors. Anyway, I'd still recommend trying the madVR display mode changer instead of the MPC-HC one, maybe the madVR one will work. If not, there are 2 or maybe 3 alternative solutions:

(1) Use fullscreen exclusive mode, then composition rate doesn't matter.
(2) Tell madVR to disable Aero.
(3) Don't know if this works, but you could try if Overlay mode works without the frame drops. No idea, though, really. It might not help.

[cyberbeing]

I have the same problem a LaUs3r with my GT440 & 310.90 drivers.

Main monitor = CRT (1920x1080 @119.88Hz or 1600x1200 @95.904Hz Analog BNC)
Secondary monitor = TV (1920x1080 @23.976Hz HDMI).

Whenever I play a video on the TV @23.976Hz, most of the time my composition rate will show as 119.88Hz or 96Hz of my main monitor. Other times I've seen madVR report a composition rate of 59.94Hz or 29.97Hz (especially when exiting Fullscreen Exclusive), yet never 23.976Hz. It makes no difference if start playing from the TV, drag a playing video from main monitor to TV, already have 23.976Hz set, use the madVR refresh rate switcher to change to 23.976Hz, nor reloading MPC-HC & madVR with CTRL+E.

From what you're saying, it sounds like composition rate isn't something madVR has control over? Assuming madVR is always reporting composition rate correctly, would having a higher multiple composition rate have a negative effect on madVR's vsync logic in Windowed mode?

[madshi]

I don't know who ultimately decides the composition rate. I'd guess it's somewhere in the depth of the OS, or maybe the GPU drivers have something to do with it, too. At least there's no way to control it for normal applications. All madVR does is disable and reenable Desktop Composition whenever it switches display modes. That usually helps "updating" the composition rate. I suppose Windows just doesn't like different composition rates for primary and secondary monitors, but I don't really know. As I said, using fullscreen exclusive mode should help, as should disabling Aero while playing back video.

I'm not sure exactly what happens if composition rate and refresh rate don't match, but it seems to result in a lot of trouble.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by michkrol

First of all, thanks for your continued hard work on MadVR. A really good piece of software.

I've encountered a rather strange bug, happens randomly and with quite specific settings. Here's how to reproduce:

1. Enable both "use separate device for presentation" and "use separate device for DXVA processing".
2. Set "DXVA2" for image up-/downscaling.
3. Play a h264 10bit file in windowed mode, while using downscaling (or upscaling).
4. The video is "jumping", as if instead of next frame, the previous frame gets rendered.
   What I mean is instead of frames 1 2 3 4, you get frames 1 2 1 4 or something.

Same file works fine with one of the "use separate device ..." options disabled or when using either other scaling algorithms or no scaling. Also other files work perfectly.

Link to sample:

www.mediafire.com/?ca88a1buue7g2dy

and log:

www.mediafire.com/?z72h4726xh4v859

Basic system info:
Intel Core i5 3570K
Intel HD 4000 + drivers v2875
Windows 7 (x64)
MadVR v0.85.7
MPC-HC Lite 1.6.6.6391 (32bit of course)
LAV Filters 0.54.1, but also happens if using MadVR's internal decoding

Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to reproduce the problem. Anyway, does this test build fix the problem?

http://madshi.net/madVR16635.rar

[LaUs3r]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm not sure if Windows is able to use different composition rates for primary and secondary monitors. Anyway, I'd still recommend trying the madVR display mode changer instead of the MPC-HC one, maybe the madVR one will work. If not, there are 2 or maybe 3 alternative solutions:

(1) Use fullscreen exclusive mode, then composition rate doesn't matter.
(2) Tell madVR to disable Aero.
(3) Don't know if this works, but you could try if Overlay mode works without the frame drops. No idea, though, really. It might not help.

I use the madvr display mode changer. But if I'm in dual screen mode, madVR does not to apply the correct refresh rate for the LCD-TV. It stays at 60Hz for the composition and display rate. As mentioned before, if I only use the LCD-TV (single screen) everything works fine. Seems to me that madVR doesn't recognize that the playback happens on screen 2 and not on screen 1.

[madshi]

That seems weird. Maybe a madVR debug log could help finding out why madVR doesn't switch.

[Qotscha]

I have a problem watching interlaced content in secondary display when using dxva2 decoding. When I have fullscreen exclusive mode enabled in the secondary display and I then open a new file in my main monitor, madVR changes the refresh rate to 25/30 fps instead of 50/60 fps and playback gets very stuttery.

However, the problem can be avoided with "if in doubt, activate deinterlacing" setting. But the strange thing is that even with "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing" setting, madVR OSD tells that deinterlacing is on. And if I change source type setting during playback from auto-detect (Video) to Video, madVR changes to correct refresh rate. Or if source type is set to video instead of auto-detection, changing it to auto-detect (Video) will change to correct refresh rate.

I have tested this with LAV (native), MPC HC, and ffdshow dxva decoders with h.264 and MPEG2 content. Software decoders work fine.

I'm using 64 bit Windows 7 and my graphics card is Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 12.11 beta 11 drivers.

Here is a log containing opening a file, changing to fullscreen in secondary display, reopening it, chancing source type from auto-detect (Video) to Video and quitting MPC HC.

[Dodgexander]

Originally Posted by madshi

Do you get a crash with LAV Video Decoder? LAV should be superior to ffdshow for DXVA decoding.

It just happens with FFDSHOW dxva, not lav. Strangely only on a secondry screen.

Originally Posted by Qotscha

I have a problem watching interlaced content in secondary display when using dxva2 decoding. When I have fullscreen exclusive mode enabled in the secondary display and I then open a new file in my main monitor, madVR changes the refresh rate to 25/30 fps instead of 50/60 fps and playback gets very stuttery.

However, the problem can be avoided with "if in doubt, activate deinterlacing" setting. But the strange thing is that even with "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing" setting, madVR OSD tells that deinterlacing is on. And if I change source type setting during playback from auto-detect (Video) to Video, madVR changes to correct refresh rate. Or if source type is set to video instead of auto-detection, changing it to auto-detect (Video) will change to correct refresh rate.

I have tested this with LAV (native), MPC HC, and ffdshow dxva decoders with h.264 and MPEG2 content. Software decoders work fine.

I'm using 64 bit Windows 7 and my graphics card is Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 12.11 beta 11 drivers.

Here is a log containing opening a file, changing to fullscreen in secondary display, reopening it, chancing source type from auto-detect (Video) to Video and quitting MPC HC.

I had this problem before, now it doesn't happen anymore. Originally I fixed it by disabling desktop composition in Madvr settings, but now using separate device for presentation in options does the trick. That is of course if the cause of your problem was the same as mine.

Oh, also you can try disabling/enabling fullscreen exclusive mode.

[michkrol]

Originally Posted by madshi

Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to reproduce the problem. Anyway, does this test build fix the problem?

http://madshi.net/madVR16635.rar

Thanks for your time.

For 10bit videos, it's worse than before - the windowed mode doesn't work with "separate DXVA device" and DXVA scaling selected, also the fullscreen mode stopped working with DXVA scaling. By not working I mean the player quits silently, almost as if closed by user - can't get a crashlog. Fullscreen without scaling works normally (tested by setting player to start in fullscreen).

For 8bit videos it works without scaling in both windowed and fullscreen. Doesn't work with DXVA scaling (both windowed and fullscreen). Doesn't matter whether I use software or hardware decoding.

For the record, since my last post, I've update MPC-HC to 6609, LAVFilters to 0.55.1 and Intel drivers to 2932.

A pity I can't provide more useful info

[madshi]

Originally Posted by michkrol

By not working I mean the player quits silently, almost as if closed by user

Argh, sorry, my fault. How about this one?

http://madshi.net/madVRdxvaScalingTest.rar

Originally Posted by Qotscha

I have a problem watching interlaced content in secondary display when using dxva2 decoding. When I have fullscreen exclusive mode enabled in the secondary display and I then open a new file in my main monitor, madVR changes the refresh rate to 25/30 fps instead of 50/60 fps and playback gets very stuttery.

However, the problem can be avoided with "if in doubt, activate deinterlacing" setting. But the strange thing is that even with "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing" setting, madVR OSD tells that deinterlacing is on. And if I change source type setting during playback from auto-detect (Video) to Video, madVR changes to correct refresh rate. Or if source type is set to video instead of auto-detection, changing it to auto-detect (Video) will change to correct refresh rate.

I have tested this with LAV (native), MPC HC, and ffdshow dxva decoders with h.264 and MPEG2 content. Software decoders work fine.

I'm using 64 bit Windows 7 and my graphics card is Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 12.11 beta 11 drivers.

Here is a log containing opening a file, changing to fullscreen in secondary display, reopening it, chancing source type from auto-detect (Video) to Video and quitting MPC HC.

Ok, I understand why madVR is reacting this way. Let me see if I can fix it for the next build.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Qotscha

I have a problem watching interlaced content in secondary display when using dxva2 decoding. When I have fullscreen exclusive mode enabled in the secondary display and I then open a new file in my main monitor, madVR changes the refresh rate to 25/30 fps instead of 50/60 fps and playback gets very stuttery.

However, the problem can be avoided with "if in doubt, activate deinterlacing" setting. But the strange thing is that even with "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing" setting, madVR OSD tells that deinterlacing is on. And if I change source type setting during playback from auto-detect (Video) to Video, madVR changes to correct refresh rate. Or if source type is set to video instead of auto-detection, changing it to auto-detect (Video) will change to correct refresh rate.

I have tested this with LAV (native), MPC HC, and ffdshow dxva decoders with h.264 and MPEG2 content. Software decoders work fine.

I'm using 64 bit Windows 7 and my graphics card is Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 12.11 beta 11 drivers.

Here is a log containing opening a file, changing to fullscreen in secondary display, reopening it, chancing source type from auto-detect (Video) to Video and quitting MPC HC.

P.S: Just thought about it. Although I might find a way to fix that, you could already fix it yourself right now. Your list of display modes contains 25/29/30 refresh rates. I'm surprised your display even supports those. Most displays do not. My suggestion would be to remove those. 25p content can be played back at 50Hz with no problems. 29p/30p content can be played back at 59.940Hz/60Hz with no problems. And there is very very few native 29p/30p content out there to begin with.

[ryrynz]

Madshi, do you have any intention of allowing chapter markers on the seekbar?

[hannes69]

I want to calibrate my Infocus X9 DLP 720p projector. Question about "the display expects the following RGB output levels" option in devices properties section of madvr: How do I determine what levels a device expects? In datasheet of projector nothing is to find about that. The projector is connected by HDMI so both sort of levels are possible AFAIK. In projectors menu there is NO option to select HDMI levels. I use the AVC test pattern with the vertical bars to setup black level. I have an AMD HD4550 card and in CCC 4:4:4 RGB Full and Full Dynamic Range (0-255) is selected. When selecting PC Levels in madvr I never see bars below 16 or above 235 (BTB and WTW lost, no problem for me). When using TV levels in madvr I have to adjust brightness and contrast level in the projector to cut BTB and WTW.
And thats the question: Have both variants really the same result? I dont´t remember exactly, but I have read somewhere else that the result will NOT be the same, there is some kind of level compression in one case.
What do you think of the following idea: My projector also has a VGA input and my graphic card a VGA output. VGA is always PC levels. By using that connection (and madvr PC levels) I adjust brightness and contrast with the AVC test pattern. And then switch to HDMI connection and then I´ll see the right setting. That would be possible if the projector handles both signal types (HDMI and VGA) in the ame way. Hope you understand what I mean...
Or is there another possibility I´m not aware of to check out by an objective way the expected level range?
Hannes.

[michkrol]

Originally Posted by madshi

How about this one?

http://madshi.net/madVRdxvaScalingTest.rar

It works correctly, thank you!

As a side-note, the average 'scale' times go way up, (from 0,23ms to 1,45ms for the file I've tested) while using 'separate DXVA device'. No frame drops or anything. I don't think it's worth more of your time, maybe Intel('s driver) doesn't like it. I'll just disable it until I have time for more extensive tests. Thanks again.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Madshi, do you have any intention of allowing chapter markers on the seekbar?

it is on very low priority if i'm not mistaken

u mean the fullscreen exclusive seekbar right?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Madshi, do you have any intention of allowing chapter markers on the seekbar?

Asked before. Not planned for the near future.

Originally Posted by hannes69

When selecting PC Levels in madvr I never see bars below 16 or above 235 (BTB and WTW lost, no problem for me). When using TV levels in madvr I have to adjust brightness and contrast level in the projector to cut BTB and WTW.
And thats the question: Have both variants really the same result?

After calibration is done, you should *not* see BTB. There are conflicting opinions on WTW, but the classic approach is to "calibrate it away", too. Sounds to me PC levels output in madVR is the correct setting in your case. I would *not* calibrate VGA and then switch to HDMI.

Originally Posted by michkrol

As a side-note, the average 'scale' times go way up

That's because I've added a "flush" after the scaling when you "use a separate device for DXVA processing". With the old version there was no flush, which means that the "scale" time measurements were probably not correct. I'm always saying that you shouldn't put too much stock into the measured rendering times. The only thing that counts is if playback is smooth.

[pururin]

I've experienced what michkrol said as well with only "use separate device for DXVA processing" option enabled, video is very jumpy.
EDIT: A bit weird but I can barely reproduce it now after some re-instalings and configuring, very few jumps or most of the times none at all.

IIRC DXVA2 is no good for both Nvidia and ATI, on the contrary some suggest Intel iGPU owner to use this.
madshi did you add this scaling method just as another option for testing, or if it has advantages for Intel iGPU?

Any comment/info about this scaling? Maybe it's really good quality to performance ratio wise.

[hannes69]

After calibration is done, you should *not* see BTB. There are conflicting opinions on WTW, but the classic approach is to "calibrate it away", too. Sounds to me PC levels output in madVR is the correct setting in your case. I would *not* calibrate VGA and then switch to HDMI.

Yes, i want to kill BTB and WTW. But I can achieve this by 2 setups:
1. madvr outputs 0-255. On the projector no BTB and WTW appear, regardless of contrast and brightness setting. So I adjust brightness in such a way that 17 is barely visible and contrast so that 234 is barely visible.
2. madvr outputs 16-235. On the projector BTB and WTW appear. I kill BTB and WTW with right contrast and brightness setting.

Of course the desktop level is different in both cases, but I use the projector only for movies so I don´t care about desktop level.
The only question is if both variants deliver the SAME video levels or one of the two variants is the right and the other one the wrong one.

[nevcairiel]

Personally i would prefer 0-255 because that means you actually have 255 values to spread the RGB out over, and with 16-235 you need to squeeze it in 220 different values, it may not be much in terms of bits, but maybe it helps to avoid banding once in a while.

[Qotscha]

Originally Posted by madshi

P.S: Just thought about it. Although I might find a way to fix that, you could already fix it yourself right now. Your list of display modes contains 25/29/30 refresh rates. I'm surprised your display even supports those. Most displays do not. My suggestion would be to remove those. 25p content can be played back at 50Hz with no problems. 29p/30p content can be played back at 59.940Hz/60Hz with no problems. And there is very very few native 29p/30p content out there to begin with.

Thanks for your answer. In fact, I tested removing those display modes from the list some weeks ago, but I forgot to mention that now, sorry. However, as you wrote, that fixed the problem.

My secondary display is a LG HDTV (42LM620T), which supports those refresh rates, so I have enabled them. I have some 25p/29p TV rips, but of course they are from 50i/59i sources. If I play them at 50/59 Hz, then every frame is just presented twice and the result is the same, right?