madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[bcec]

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .

[bcec]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

If someone has a direct line to the MakeMKV developers, it would be interesting to bring that topic up with them.

I see this from a while ago, I wonder if it was ever specced out:
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewto...&t=7863#p33739

[Aleksoid1978]

Hello madshi.
Any chance that you add support output 3D in Row Interleaved format, like PowerDVD/TMT and Stereoscopic Player.
Also, for Row Interleaved format, need options for select left/right eyes first.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

Hello madshi.
Any chance that you add support output 3D in Row Interleaved format, like PowerDVD/TMT and Stereoscopic Player.
Also, for Row Interleaved format, need options for select left/right eyes first.

already supported in the current version of madVR.

3D format line/column alternative.

eye swapping is there too.

[Aleksoid1978]

Yes, i see in change log:

* 3D: added top-and-bottom, line alternative and column alternative modes

But don't see in options how i can select different 3D format.

Alse don't see

"swap left / right eye" option

Where is ??

[huhn]

device -> "your device name" -> properties

finally you can test it!

[Aleksoid1978]

Thanks. Amazing - it's work

[6233638]

Originally Posted by bcec

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .

I can't imagine it being difficult to render subtitles with depth.
Instead of rendering the text in the same position for the left and right eye, you move them an equal distance either towards or away from the "center" to adjust their height.

My only concern would be that the depth might interfere with elements of the film.
If the subtitle depth is "behind" an object in the film, that's probably going to look very bad.
I can see where adding a small amount of depth to move the subtitles off the "surface" of the display might help though.
I threw together a very quick side-by-side test in Photoshop, and offsetting the left/right eye text even just a couple of pixels can have quite an effect on its depth. (ranges from -2 to +2 px)

[Manni]

@Madshi & Nev,

As/when you're working on m2ts support for 3D, will you be able to read the left eye/right eye information in the m2ts file to make sure that MadVR displays the 3D stream appropriately? As far as I understand this info isn't transferred to the mk3d file.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by evil-doer

Im having a very different problem than everyone else. Since .90, madvr has been crashing my display driver, often non recoverable. Where I need to hit the reset button because my monitor turns off.

Are you using Windows 10 build 11102? Also, can you please recheck with v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue with v0.90.x? That's *very* important for me to know.

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

JRiver MC21 is a bit of a different, albeit weird, story. When I play my 3D mkv's in MC21, they're 2D. Until, that is, I move the mouse and bring up the OSD for the player. Then it pops everything into 3D properly until the OSD hides, then back to 2D. WTF? LOL I won't have time to mess with it again til this weekend but I thought that was rather peculiar.

Will look into that.

Originally Posted by bbsc

I understand.
Thank you for the effort.
If I can help in any way (logs, testing, etc.) just let me know.

Well, if you create a debug log, I can check if I can see something.

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Can you link content where it "fails", also is it real world content?

aufkrawall's favorite Anime sample is one of those. Here's another.

Originally Posted by Warner306

Can someone tell me how HDR content mapping works when display calibration controls are disabled. What color gamut and gamma does madVR map to?

In that case it defaults to BT.709 and a pure power curve of 2.2.

Originally Posted by MSL_DK

I get an error in the upper left corner that says something like: Could not read display mode. It only happens if I disable FSE. AMD control panel crashes and windows behave very strangely and I will have to restart.

Windows 10 x64
MPC-HC x86 latest
madVR x86 latest
AMD R9 270 with latest driver
Display 1920x1080 60Hz

Can you double check whether this is a new problem with v0.90.x or whether this also occurs with v0.89.19?

Originally Posted by DD51

Pardon my ignorance but does that mean it'll never work on Win7?

Originally Posted by clsid

The Win8.1+ requirement only applies to outputting the 3D video in frame packed format. You can also play 3D video on Windows 7 with madVR. It will then only use a different output format, such as side-by-side.

^

Originally Posted by Probe

Was hoping someone could help me understand why the audio/video clock deviation changes depending on the audio format?

The "master" clock in a DirectShow graph is usually generated by the audio renderer. And the audio renderer probably behaves differently depending on which audio format it plays back. TrueHD has very small sized audio frames, maybe that helps keeping jitter low, I don't know. None of that is madVR specific, in any case, and I don't have any influence whatsoever on that.

Originally Posted by BetA13

sorry for the late answer...

I retested everything today with the newest version 0.90.3.
Sadly same result..

i try to explain it better..

0.90.0 - starting video is no problem, Video is out of sync and too fast sometimes. If i go Fullscreen the video still runs, but is totally out of sync now and the speed is wrong, also when i move my mouse the video stutters, wich never happened before, when i now go back into windowed mode, the video is black/green and sound is still playing..
I can normaly exit the player (mpchc64bit) with my mouse.Theres no error report...


0.90.1 - Same behavior as above
0.90.2 - Same behavior as above
0.90.3 - Same behavior as above

0.89.19 - Works Flawless

Originally Posted by dansrfe

I can confirm the same issue with v0.90.3. Let me know if you require more info around profiles, etc.

Ok, I'll create some test builds between 0.89.19 and 0.90.x later for you to test.

Originally Posted by XMonarchY

AFAIK specific calibration is necessary for 3D. Does that mean that 3D 3DLUT needs to be made and applied or does madVR somehow compensate on top of existing 3DLUT's, made for 2D?

You can create a separate 3dlut for 3D if you want, by creating profiles for calibration and auto switching them depending on whether content is 2D or 3D. How to actually do a 3D calibration I don't know. Please refer to the AVSForum calibration threads for that purpose.

Originally Posted by leeperry

-the main issue is that the new chroma SR adds EE as previously observed by har3inger and sxbr25 rings quite a bit so RS being far from soft it turns into very obvious EE, even with SR set to 1

Maybe when using Reconstruction, you can turn off chroma SuperRes instead to avoid the EE?

Originally Posted by leeperry

-RS indeed appears to be the most transparent algorithm for the job in mVR, really great looking on HD video content

Long story short, could you allow us to only run NEDI & sxbr for luma doubling and not chroma?

"Reconstruction" is strictly only for chroma upscaling, it can't be used for chroma doubling. At least it wouldn't make sense there.

Originally Posted by 4h4h270

I finally figure out reclock's problem, but I will see some judder during play. Madvr's osd told me 0 frame drop/repeat and 0 present glitch. I'm not sure if it is my monitor's problem.

I've tried latest madvr & lavfilters, I still get massive frame drop after play 1h10min. It happens before, only in frame packed 3D playback.

I'm not sure I understand: Does this frame drop problem only occur with 3D playback, or also with 2D playback?

Originally Posted by hubblec4

MadVR 0.9x don't work smooth. The video is stuttering (original settings). What ever I change in the settings it will be not better.

Can you please double check v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue introduced with v0.90.x? That's quite important.

Originally Posted by Razoola

If one does this resolution is lost isn't it because madVR will shrink SBS and the panel will stretch it again when it makes it 3D?

Yes, for active shutter displays using SBS does cost resolution. For passive displays that's not the case, though, because the display itself is already built to lose resolution, and if you let madVR directly render to "line alternative", you might even get slightly better image quality than when using frame packed 3D output. The display will not know that it's doing 3D playback in that case, though. Not sure if that's important. Might be if the display switches into a different mode internally for 3D playback which has some benefits (like higher brightness or something). In that case using frame packed 3D would be better.

Originally Posted by Razoola

There may also be the issue where any madVR image enhancements will merge parts of both pictures together where the left and right image join?

No, madVR processing always strictly handles left and right view separately. Only in the last processing steps the left and right views will be merged together.

Originally Posted by hubblec4

I have reset the settings, deinstalled madvr0.9x and installed 0.88.21 and it works a lot better (not perfect, a very rare stuttering is there). After I set all features to Biliniar(like nevcairiel said) the resualt was better, and then I activate the smooth motion and now it works 99,9%.

That 99,9% is that with 0.88.21 or 0.90.x? If it's with 0.88.21 and 0.90.x is clearly worse for you, then please try 0.89.19 as a test to see whether the new issue was introduced between 0.88.21 and 0.89.19, or between 0.89.19 and 0.90.0.

Originally Posted by 6233638

1. With madVR set to enable/disable 3D on playback start/stop, the display is being left at 23Hz until I close JRMC, instead of restoring the previous 60Hz mode.

Is that with "restore os stereo 3d settings" activated or deactivated? And do you have display mode switching turned on or off? If on, do you have display mode restauration turned on or off?

Originally Posted by 6233638

2. There is a huge delay switching in/out of 3D mode on my display. Is it possible to have madVR pause playback for a user-defined time when switching? I'd need something like 15-20 seconds.
This might be nice to have for 2D content switching in/out of FSE mode or changing refresh rates too - though not as important.

At some point, maybe. But for now my priority is on fixing all problems first.

Originally Posted by 6233638

3. If the OS 3D mode is enabled, madVR always outputs frame-packed 3D and ignores the 3D format options.

Ooops. That said, wouldn't it be strange/useless to output side-by-side, when the GPU sends frame packed 3D to the display? I'm not sure how to solve this properly. Some GPUs *ALWAYS* send frame packed 3D if the OS 3D mode is enabled. Some switch it on only when the first application tries to output frame packed 3D.

Originally Posted by 6233638

4. SBS playback doesn't work for me at all in windowed mode. I get a second or so of SBS playback then I either get a frozen and stretched frame filling the window, or if I just switched from FSW/FSE to windowed mode, I get a black screen.
If I enter FSW/FSE mode, I get a "copying backbuffer failed (new mode)" error, and then after a second or two, SBS playback does begin to work.

Which OS? Which GPU? Which media player? x64 or x86? Are you using D3D11 presentation or D3D9 presentation or Overlay?

Originally Posted by 6233638

5. Switching 3D mode on/off while a video is playing seems to break playback.

Do you mean the OS 3D mode or do you mean the "enable stereo 3d playback" in madVR? The latter should be setup once and then left in that stage.

Originally Posted by 6233638

This also made me realize that it would be useful if "Windowed" and "Full-Screen Windowed" could be treated as separate things in profiles.
Thinking about it more, I would probably want FSW/FSE to share the same settings in most profiles, while keeping Windowed mode separate.
The simplest solution for that would probably be to add a new "fswMode" boolean, instead of changing how "Windowed" behaves. So "Windowed" covers windowed/FSW, but "fswMode" only applies to FSW.

I don't like that, to be honest. Would make more sense to add a "fullscreen" boolean. You can combine that yourself with the already existing "windowed" or "fseMode".

Originally Posted by Nullack

Windows 10 build 11102 has known issues with fullscreen and 3D modes which includes madVR from my testing

Oh, interesting!

Originally Posted by bcec

could you add a keyboard shortcut for 3D left/right eye swap?

Wouldn't it make more sense to add file tagging support for that?

Originally Posted by bcec

Another thing I noticed is the 3D subtitle support. While subtitles work as usual, they don't have any depth, which makes them quite hard to read at times. Not quite sure if there is anything madshi can do about this.. .

How do Blu-Ray players solve this? Are there actual 3D subtitles stored on a 3D Blu-Ray disc? Or do they simple let the user choose at which depth to show subtitles?

Originally Posted by Manni

As/when you're working on m2ts support for 3D, will you be able to read the left eye/right eye information in the m2ts file to make sure that MadVR displays the 3D stream appropriately? As far as I understand this info isn't transferred to the mk3d file.

nevcairiel is aware of the issue and I'm sure he'll implement it properly. madVR itself relies on that the decoder sends the frames in the right order atm. So unless we change the interface between madVR and LAV, it's currently LAV's job to switch left/right eye view, if the content requires it.

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

Yes, i see in change log:

[...]

But don't see in options how i can select different 3D format.

Well, I'm trying to put the options where they belong logically. In a multi-monitor setup one display might work best with "frame packing", while another one might want "line alternative". So these settings belong into the device/monitor specific settings in madVR.

When you test this, can you please compare image quality to PowerDVD to see if madVR is better/same/worse? Also one thing that I would find very interesting: When PowerDVD does 3D playback, does your display know that it's doing 3D?

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by madshi

aufkrawall's favorite Anime sample is one of those. Here's another.

Yeah... Bilateral it's pretty disappointing there. I wish there was something that just aced it all. I'd rather have a chroma upscaler be able to deal with swathes of red in an acceptable way rather than have it look consistently more natural overall.. which I probably wouldn't notice anyway.. Think I'll have to consider reconstruction soft.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by jmone

Spoke to soon on the 2nd Issue - here is a log: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20-%20log3.zip that should show playback in D3D9 no D3D11 (3D) mode with some seeks where post seek you see a bit of SBS then it goes into a std 2D image.

I think this is also related to my observation of "If move or right click the mouse to go into madVR settings and more often I get a visual effect like when leaving "Exclusive" mode" is actually it falling out of 3D to 2D

Ok, found one more potential issue. Please retest with the next build, whenever it occurs.

[hubblec4]

Originally Posted by madshi

Can you please double check v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue introduced with v0.90.x? That's quite important.

Ok, I will test it then.

Originally Posted by madshi

That 99,9% is that with 0.88.21 or 0.90.x? If it's with 0.88.21 and 0.90.x is clearly worse for you, then please try 0.89.19 as a test to see whether the new issue was introduced between 0.88.21 and 0.89.19, or between 0.89.19 and 0.90.0.

The 99,9% is with 0.88.21. In very very rare case the video is stuttering and only for a half second.
I will try 0.89.19 (Nevcairiel said you had change a lot of DVD playback in 0.89x thats why I try 0.88x)

[a8213711]

How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?

[huhn]

do you use DXVA image upscaling?

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Maybe when using Reconstruction, you can turn off chroma SuperRes instead to avoid the EE?

Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.

SR+RS is pretty much all dandy without chroma doubling on HD or with NEDI chroma doubling on SD as the latter doesn't appear to ring nearly as much as sxbr for instance. Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr? I'm not in the market for chroma ringing, especially when it gets the merciless RS+SR treatment

BTW it's quite fun to play videos at half-speed in combo with FRC

[Aleksoid1978]

Originally Posted by madshi

When you test this, can you please compare image quality to PowerDVD to see if madVR is better/same/worse? Also one thing that I would find very interesting: When PowerDVD does 3D playback, does your display know that it's doing 3D?

Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by a8213711

How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?

When using DXVA decoding or deinterlacing, madVR uses DXVA chroma upscaling, unless you change the "trade quality for performance" settings.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.

I think motion blur is more of a luma thing, and less chroma. I didn't mean to suggest to turn luma SuperRes off, just chroma SuperRes. Which shouldn't affect motion blur much, I think.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr?

Technically possible: Yes. Coming any time soon: No, sorry. You're the only one who's asked for that yet, and it would complicate the rendering pipeline.

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.

Ok, good to hear!

One question: If you enable the Ctrl+J OSD, it is being rendered a little bit differently, depending on whether playback is paused or running (you can see that very clearly when looking at your TV without the 3D glasses on). Without the glasses on it's pretty clear which rendering method looks better (= when paused). But I'm wondering how it is with glasses on? I can't change the way the OSD looks like in paused state, but I could change it during playback. The same thing applies to all kinds of OSD, so it's not unimportant.

[huhn]

for line/column alternative is the picture for both image shifted by half a pixel? so the image has kind of the same position.

[madshi]

It's shifted by 0.25 pixels each. 0.5 would be too much. You can see that in the Ctrl+J OSD. It looks nice and smooth in 3D playback. With 0.0 or 0.5 pixel shifting it would look quite ugly.