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4th October 2017, 10:21 | #221 | Link | ||
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Luminance/stimulus: 75%/75% - 75%/100% - 100%/75% - 100%/100% but only minimally improved the colors, and I'm unable to set the red and blue colors to a lower value... At weekends I look at the HCFR program. One more thing: Does it matter, from image qualtiy point of view, which setting I use out of the two option during the calibration process? CALMAN is 16-235 at every case! Setup 1 (limited range) TV: 16-235 | NVIDIA CP: 16-235 Setup 2 (full range) TV: 0-255 | NVIDIA CP: 0-255 I would like to apologize for the wrong wording if there is any, but unfortunately there is 0 information about the subject in my native language, especially on this level, so I have to ask my questions on international portals. Last edited by hajosattila; 4th October 2017 at 11:02. |
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4th October 2017, 11:27 | #222 | Link | |
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By off I simply mean they are not accurate. It is tricky to develop white LEDs with exactly the correct pure red, green, and/or blue for BT.709. Most displays' primary colors are not perfect and your's are actually pretty good.
Trying to fix it will probably make a lot of other aspects of your calibration, that you are not currently measuring, worse. What about being unable to correct them with on-device calibration do you not believe. Your red and blue primaries are slightly under-saturated, that means a calibration would need to remove more than 100% of the green and blue from the red and more than 100% of the green and red from the blue. This is not possible, you cannot increase the saturation of a primary color with a calibration. Setting your display to a wider gamut, if available, would increase saturation but it would be MUCH higher, giving much higher dE values. In fact it usually messes up a lot of other aspects of a calibration to even attempt to correct the primary colors. Even correcting the secondary colors usually goes bad, you can get 100% magenta looking correct but 50% magenta doesn't change so you end up with non-linear saturation ramps that are hard to deal with during a software calibration. Make sure to look at the saturation ramps before and after, don't make them look worse after calibration. Also Calman's "color checker" is very helpful when evaluating manual calibrations. Before creating a 3DLUT I would only use the on-device calibration to correct the white point, reset color management to the defaults and then only use it to correct the white point. Quote:
madTPG will expand 16-235 to full range RGB so Setup 1 and Setup 2 give the same results (2 preferred, all else being equal). This assumes your display is set to full range in madVR. If the pattern source does not expand the dynamic range (madVR set to limited range or another generator) it is important to use Setup 3: TV: 16-235 | NVIDIA CP: 0-255. Or switch Calman to 0-255 and use Setup 2 (Setup 1 works too), Windows is always 0-255 so when not using madTPG in Windows Calman should probably be set to 0-255. You can use madTPG even when not creating a 3DLUT so it is strongly recommended. Edit: I know it is hard to grasp but your Setup 1 and 2 look basically the same to calibration software. Setup 1; with the NVIDIA CP set to 16-235 the GPU compresses 0-255 into 16-235 so any test patterns are compressed, the TV then displays the software's pattern value of 0 as 0% black and what was a pattern value of 255 as 100% white. The data format is always 0-255, the GPU option 16-235 is an active range compression step while the option 0-255 does not do anything to the data. The GPU always gets full range RGB even with limited range set in Calman, all that changes is what Calman thinks is 0% IRE; binary (0000000, 0000000, 0000000) or (00010000, 00010000, 00010000).
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 4th October 2017 at 12:59. |
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4th October 2017, 12:54 | #223 | Link | |
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7th October 2017, 14:09 | #224 | Link | |
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First step: Correct dynamic range TV: 0-255 | NVIDIA CP: 0-255 | CALMAN 16-235(?) next step: I changed the program's internal generator. I use madtgp If this is correct, then I'll start calibration. sorry for my bad English Last edited by hajosattila; 7th October 2017 at 14:13. |
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7th October 2017, 16:04 | #225 | Link |
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Yes, that is correct.
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7th October 2017, 19:38 | #226 | Link |
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Finally, I decided to perform the measurement under HCFR, which I am completely satisfied with if the gamma did not slide in the 50-60-80 and 90 range.
How can I correct this? https://imgur.com/a/iU3qV |
7th October 2017, 20:16 | #227 | Link |
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You probably cannot, those errors are very minor and your display looks good overall.
Your TV would need a multi-point luminescence control to adjust that, some TVs do have luminescence controls as part of a 10 or 20 point white balance IRE adjustment but I get better results leaving that alone and letting the gamma curve be slightly imperfect. I get much better results using a software calibration to make those fine adjustments (a 3DLUT for madVR or an ICC profile for Windows).
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9th October 2017, 10:04 | #228 | Link |
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I think also that those results are good You'll never get perfect result only if you're lucky.
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15th November 2017, 11:23 | #229 | Link |
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How does "convert or process HDR content by using an external 3DLUT" work using an SD display? The description of those options aren't straightforward to me.
So, what should I do / which option to use if I wan to try it out using an UHD BD encode (x265 10bit HDR10) and a 3dlut calibrated FullHD display (Bt.709)? Thanks
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15th November 2017, 18:54 | #230 | Link |
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if you select on option in HDr there is an text that should make it clear what which option does.
process HDR content by using an external 3D LUt means the ct by using an 3D lut so it is still HDR. on a not HDR display you should either select convert HDR to SDR by using pixel shader math or convert HDR content to SDR by using an external 3D LUT (if you can create of have access to a HDR -> SDR 3D LUT). |
16th November 2017, 12:01 | #231 | Link | |||
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But on second thought: since decoding is done by CPU (that's not powerful at all either) then meybe it would result more stress onto the CPU if I use 3dlut for this. Is the HDR-SDR 3dlut conversion done by CPU, isn't it? Quote:
Do you have a link how to create those 3dluts with DiplayCal? Thanks for your help!
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16th November 2017, 12:36 | #232 | Link | ||
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it's the same as a normal 3D LUt just for the HDR mode.
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just use the d65 Rec. 2020 / SMPTE 2084 madVR profile |
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17th November 2017, 20:31 | #233 | Link | |
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Yep, thanks, that's what I meant.
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10th January 2018, 07:27 | #234 | Link |
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Two questions:
Does lowering RGB levels in the monitor menu reduce gamut? Which would give more accurate color: 1) no correction 2) spectral correction LCD White LED IPS (generic one in dispcal) 3) matrix correction for the same model colorimeter and display that I have but created and uploaded by someone else, so "different" hardware. All three give different results, so how do I know which is the most accurate without a reference or more tools like a spectrometer of my own. |
10th January 2018, 12:04 | #235 | Link | |||
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10th January 2018, 14:34 | #236 | Link | |
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10th January 2018, 21:43 | #237 | Link |
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From the rest of your post it looks like you have measurement hardware on hand, so why don't you try it and see for yourself? That's the best way to be sure. (Using ColorHCFR for example, which will show you the gamut graphically.)
Every monitor is different in terms of settings, but in general, if the RGB settings don't mention anything about hue or saturation, it usually means it's an individual channel luminance setting. That affects the white point, but not the position of the primaries (which is what most people mean by "gamut", i.e. in 2D). Last edited by e-t172; 10th January 2018 at 21:47. |
11th January 2018, 08:49 | #238 | Link |
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I have had R, G, and B move the primaries before (on a plasma TV) but they usually do not on anything with a backlight. They do not on my OLED TV either.
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20th January 2018, 18:41 | #239 | Link | |
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In my case, is it necessary to use the Interactive Display Adjustment option? I just want to refine my CMS because I've calibrated everything with BT1886 CALMAN software Thanks for your help and I apologize for my weak English! Last edited by hajosattila; 20th January 2018 at 18:43. |
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20th January 2018, 21:45 | #240 | Link |
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What do you want to fine tune about them? Why does your CMS need refining? Your first link shows everything pretty much perfect. You are not going to get noticeably better than that.
Your red and blue primaries at 1.2 dE is not fixable (see above) and you have 0.2 dE or lower everywhere else, 0.2 dE is very very good. Even 1.2 dE is good, below 2 dE is considered a good calibration in most professional color work, but that is for all colors. You should measure your saturation ramps and/or a color checker to better judge your current calibration. Edit: Hmm.. I think I misunderstood you. You can create the 3DLUT for madVR with Calman so I got confused. If you simply want to create a 3DLUT for madVR you definitely do not need the Interactive Display Adjustment option. One change I would make is to set the Whitepoint to "as measured" or "native" too. Your white point is already very good so tweaking in software lowers contrast for no gain. Otherwise your options look good for your display.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 20th January 2018 at 22:11. |
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