madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[clsid]

How often do you actually play VP9? I never. For H.264 the difference is between 5 and 15%. Nice, but not really important since any decent CPU can easily handle even 4K video. For 1080p content the difference here is like 1% CPU usage.

[clsid]

It does already have some ASM, some of which is for x64 only.

There also is x86 compatible ASM for the VP9 decoder. The fact that there is more ASM for x64 doesn't mean x86 doesn't get any love. The easy stuff is just done first. Plus some optimizations are only possible for x64 due to higher amount of available registers.

[nevcairiel]

Either madshi will provide a 64-bit version at some point or he won't.
Personally, I don't think its a huge effort to produce both 32-bit and 64-bit for well written code, but of course thats up to madshi and his priorities.

[clsid]

Well, I suspect the primary reason why madshi hasn't made a x64 build yet is because he does not want to test on and support two architectures at this moment. So maybe once madVR hits 1.0, *poof* there will suddenly be a x64 build.

[Guest]

Discussion of HEVC decoder optimization is OT and posts were deleted.

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[StinDaWg]

Anyone tried 14.6 drivers to see if they improved NNEDI3 performance?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8058/a...tionality-more

[ikakun]

I get pretty much the same performance on 14.6 beta compared to 13.12 but with much stable redering queues.

Huge plus for 14.6 beta is I can minimize banding caused by my panel by setting the color depth to 8 bpc on the new Catalyst feature. With the new feature, I don't need to set my madVR bitdepth setting to 6 bit just to minimize banding. I can just leave it to 8 bit and have lesser noise.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Early reports say that the BSODs are gone with 14.6 as well, though it's hard to say for sure with such a small sample size.

[QBhd]

R9 270x... 14.6 Beta does NOT perform as well as 13.12... Time to roll back once again

QB

[Anime Viewer]

I'm encountering an issue with madVR playing videos as detailed below, and I'm interested in hearing peoples theories about it.

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x720 23.976fps [V: h.264 [jpn] (h264 high L4.0, yuv420p, 1280x720) [default]]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo [A: aac 2ch [jpn] (aac, 48000 Hz, stereo) [default]]
Subtitle: Advanced SubStation Alpha [S: subtitles & notes [eng] (ssa/ass) [default]]
Subtitle: UTF-8 [S: No subtitles]

When playing on my TV in extended mode, and the following set as display modes the TV may switch to:
1080p60, 1080p59, 1080p30, 1080p29, 1080p24, 1080p23
My TV switches to 23.97211hz to most closely match the 23.976 fps video, but it drops a ton of frames (odd to me considering rendering average is 11.26ms).
Picture 1

If I force on Smooth Motion the dropped frames stop, but extreme blurring is present.
Picture 2

If I delete out the supported display modes except for 60hz and 59 hz. I can run the videos without dropped frames, but get the occasional presentation glitch (which looks like a dropped frame on the screen when the glitch occurs).
Picture 3

I use the 59/60hz screen method since that is the best viewing experience out of the three given what happens with each, but it seems like the ideal viewing would be with the first one where the system switches the tv display to match the video fps.

Any theories why the 23hz screen refresh rate is having the dropped frames? Any suggestions for troubleshooting?

[Asmodian]

My quick guess as to why smooth motion looks blurry would be that your TV doesn't do 23.972 correctly, is it taking 24Hz in but displaying at 60? Maybe a short log file (zipped) when it is dropping frames would help shed some light on it? Does smooth motion still look blurry if turned on for option 3? I assume this is on your Win 8.1 system? Just to rule out extra complications, does the same thing happen without subtitles?

Have you tried Reclock? It is useful even for only testing as maybe the refresh rate mismatch is causing more dropped frames than expected (I have experienced this before). I assume your screen shot wasn't after 1+ days of video playback.

[ryrynz]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

If I force on Smooth Motion the dropped frames stop, but extreme blurring is present.

Don't know if this is applicable to you or not, but forcing Smooth Motion will always make the picture noticeably softer and produce images like what you've shown (blended frames)
even after disabling all performance for quality options, I only keep it enabled with it's default setting 'only if there would be motion judder without it'.

[huhn]

Originally Posted by Anime Viewer

I'm encountering an issue with madVR playing videos as detailed below, and I'm interested in hearing peoples theories about it.

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1280x720 23.976fps [V: h.264 [jpn] (h264 high L4.0, yuv420p, 1280x720) [default]]
Audio: AAC 48000Hz stereo [A: aac 2ch [jpn] (aac, 48000 Hz, stereo) [default]]
Subtitle: Advanced SubStation Alpha [S: subtitles & notes [eng] (ssa/ass) [default]]
Subtitle: UTF-8 [S: No subtitles]

When playing on my TV in extended mode, and the following set as display modes the TV may switch to:
1080p60, 1080p59, 1080p30, 1080p29, 1080p24, 1080p23
My TV switches to 23.97211hz to most closely match the 23.976 fps video, but it drops a ton of frames (odd to me considering rendering average is 11.26ms).
Picture 1

If I force on Smooth Motion the dropped frames stop, but extreme blurring is present.
Picture 2

If I delete out the supported display modes except for 60hz and 59 hz. I can run the videos without dropped frames, but get the occasional presentation glitch (which looks like a dropped frame on the screen when the glitch occurs).
Picture 3

I use the 59/60hz screen method since that is the best viewing experience out of the three given what happens with each, but it seems like the ideal viewing would be with the first one where the system switches the tv display to match the video fps.

Any theories why the 23hz screen refresh rate is having the dropped frames? Any suggestions for troubleshooting?

this looks like one piece. one piece should be 29p so when the file reports 23p and is played at 23p madvr drops frames.
with smoothmotion frames aren't dropped but displaying 30 fps in 23 with smoothmotions looks not that good...

easy to check with a sample.

you get presentation glitches if you run out of Vram and you put all queue to maximum ... you don't need them this high try lower values. you can disable the new path windows mode and there should be no way for presentations glitches anymore. BTW you should use aero if you use windowed mode.

[Anime Viewer]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

My quick guess as to why smooth motion looks blurry would be that your TV doesn't do 23.972 correctly, is it taking 24Hz in but displaying at 60?

I would think its displaying hz correctly since it reads at the right speeds in the CTRL+J that is displayed in left side of the screen shots. I've tried things like deleting the 23hz (making it display at 24hz) as well as deleting the 24hz to make sure it uses the 23hz, but in both cases it still had the dropped frames. If it was displaying it in 60 then I'd think the CTRL+J would show 60hz at the top in those screen shots.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Maybe a short log file (zipped) when it is dropping frames would help shed some light on it?

Refresh my memory on how to activate log file recording in mpc-hc/madvr, and I'll provide it.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Does smooth motion still look blurry if turned on for option 3?

I've attached a screen shot of option 3 along with Smooth Motion enabled, and as you can see it still looks blurry.
59hz with Smooth Motion screen shot

Originally Posted by Asmodian

I assume this is on your Win 8.1 system?

You are correct that it is on my Windows 8.1 system.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Just to rule out extra complications, does the same thing happen without subtitles?

I tried disabling subtitles to see if it still dropped frames, and it still dropped them with subtitles off.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Have you tried Reclock? It is useful even for only testing as maybe the refresh rate mismatch is causing more dropped frames than expected (I have experienced this before). I assume your screen shot wasn't after 1+ days of video playback.

I've tried with and without Reclock, but it didn't make a difference in that frames were still dropped. (I had thought that it combined with the supported refresh rates it would have worked well, but its never seemed to provide any noticeable benefit the times I've used it).
Finally in answer to your last question. If you're referring to playing video non-stop for 24 hours then no I was not, but if your asking if I was marathoning episodes (as in watching a bunch in a row playing them back to back) then yes I was.

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Don't know if this is applicable to you or not, but forcing Smooth Motion will always make the picture noticeably softer and produce images like what you've shown (blended frames)
even after disabling all performance for quality options, I only keep it enabled with it's default setting 'only if there would be motion judder without it'.

Forcing Smooth Motion on was the only way I could make it active for that type of file on that screen. If I set it to only if there would be judder without it then it isn't enabled, and it continues to drop frames at the 23hz setting. So far Smooth Motion is the only way I've found to stop the dropping of frames at that screen hz with those types of files.

Originally Posted by huhn

this looks like one piece. one piece should be 29p so when the file reports 23p and is played at 23p madvr drops frames.
with smoothmotion frames aren't dropped but displaying 30 fps in 23 with smoothmotions looks not that good...

More than if its One Piece or not (which it is) I think the p is more tied to the file and how it was recorded. If its ripped, encoded, etc from the source at 23p then its 23p, and if it was taken from the source at 29p then its 29p. The properties on the file in MPC-HC show it as 23p, so I'm apt to believe it. I've tried deleting out the 23p and 24p settings from the supported display modes in madVR, but it just skips past displaying it in the 29p and 30p options I left there, and displays it at 59hz instead.

Originally Posted by huhn

you get presentation glitches if you run out of Vram and you put all queue to maximum ... you don't need them this high try lower values. you can disable the new path windows mode and there should be no way for presentations glitches anymore. BTW you should use aero if you use windowed mode.

Based on your suggestion I dropped my CPU and GPU queues down to 4 for both, and it still had presentation glitches. (Dang I was hoping it would eliminate the presentation glitches after I read your post).
My system has 16GB of RAM, the GPU 4GB GDDR5 (as reported by GPU-Z), so I don't think its maxing out my VRAM. GPU-Z reports Dynamic Memory Usage 751 MB (at most) when watching a video if both queues are set at their maximum.

[turbojet]

I had the same sort of issue before. Splitter reported 23 fps so madvr changed to 24hz. It was vfr and had 29 fps sections so there's not really anything madvr can do about it and more a problem with the splitter. I fixed it by using 48hz but it's still not a great solution.

[huhn]

More than if its One Piece or not (which it is) I think the p is more tied to the file and how it was recorded. If its ripped, encoded, etc from the source at 23p then its 23p, and if it was taken from the source at 29p then its 29p. The properties on the file in MPC-HC show it as 23p, so I'm apt to believe it. I've tried deleting out the 23p and 24p settings from the supported display modes in madVR, but it just skips past displaying it in the 29p and 30p options I left there, and displays it at 59hz instead.

the world of video formats is not that easy. MadVR display mode changer uses the information the splitter delivers if these informations are "wrong" MadVR can switch to the "wrong" refreshrate.

you can check the fps with EVR CP in mpc-hc just play the file and press control + j you can see the FPS at the top left wait 5 sec at a part where MadVR drops frames. the opening is a usually a good part for this.

I had the same sort of issue before. Splitter reported 23 fps so madvr changed to 24hz. It was vfr and had 29 fps sections so there's not really anything madvr can do about it and more a problem with the splitter. I fixed it by using 48hz but it's still not a great solution.

it's a problem of all 3: Splitter, file and MadVR.
it is possible to add min FPS, max FPS and avg FPS in file infos.
the splitter just uses 1 FPS value. MadVR has use these informations too to switch to the best possible refreshrate. MadVR with SM at 60 hz does an awesome job on these files!

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by turbojet

It was vfr and had 29 fps sections so there's not really anything madvr can do about it and more a problem with the splitter. I fixed it by using 48hz but it's still not a great solution.

VFR is a problem no matter what the splitter reports.
Splitters will typically report the FPS of the first segment in the file, but it doesn't really matter, as no matter which you report, its going to be wrong at some point. DirectShow doesn't let you report anything else to the decoder and renderer.

Smooth Motion is probably the best way to deal with those files.

[Anime Viewer]

Originally Posted by huhn

the world of video formats is not that easy. MadVR display mode changer uses the information the splitter delivers if these informations are "wrong" MadVR can switch to the "wrong" refreshrate.

you can check the fps with EVR CP in mpc-hc just play the file and press control + j you can see the FPS at the top left wait 5 sec at a part where MadVR drops frames. the opening is a usually a good part for this.

Your right about it using variable fps during playback when looking at it with EVRCP CTRL+J.
One Piece VFR pic
Based on that as a test I went in and edited my list of all display modes madVR may switch to: in madVR settings for the tv so that it only included the 29hz and 30hz options. It then opened it in the 30hz, and played without any dropped frames or presentation glitches.

As far as madVR working with VFR videos (don't know if its plausible): If madVR could detect the high point of video fps (in this case 29.97) then check against the list of all display modes madVR may switch to: section and switch to that mode (or the closest one with a higher hz - it would be better to repeat frames than drop them right?-) that might be a good way to deal with VFR videos.

From a testing perspective if we had a rule code for the high fps algorithm we could make profiles with each of the supported modes for the screen, and tell it in certain cases to use the different profiles. Something like:

if (Hfps <= 23) "23hz screen profile"
else if (Hfps <=24) "24hz screen profile"
else if (Hfps <=29) "29hz screen profile"
else if (Hfps <=30) "30hz screen profile"
else if (Hfps <=59) "59hz screen profile"
else if (Hfps <=60) "60hz screen profile"
else "standard display modes profile"

Does that sound like something that is plausible?

Edit: Looks like profiles can't be created for the "devices" group in madVR settings (as things are now). I was thinking about creating profiles and rules using the srcFps code for now and setting them to use one display mode higher then what the source FPS is detected at , but that doesn't look doable without profiles for the "devices" area.

example:

if (srcFps <= 23) "24hz screen profile"
else if (srcFps <=24) "29hz screen profile"
else if (srcFps <=29) "230hz screen profile"
else if (srcFps <=30) "59hz screen profile"
else if (srcFps <=59) "60hz screen profile"
else if (srcFps <=60) "60hz screen profile"
else "standard display modes profile"

[huhn]

if a file is VFR you should use the highes possible refreshrate with smoothmotion don't forget some parts are 23 or even 26 or time stamps change from frame to frame.
detection is not possible see here:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

VFR is a problem no matter what the splitter reports.
Splitters will typically report the FPS of the first segment in the file, but it doesn't really matter, as no matter which you report, its going to be wrong at some point. DirectShow doesn't let you report anything else to the decoder and renderer.

Smooth Motion is probably the best way to deal with those files.

so MadVR is already playing and now noticing oh this part is 26 fps the next is 29 fps. there is no way to change the display mode now it take way to long to do this. so the best way to do this is to force SM and highes refreshrate this way all parts are smooth. with smoothmotion the highes frame rate is simply the best at 60 or 120 fps the blending is not visible anymore. 30 hz SM with 23 fps content looks pretty bad because the blending is visible.

[turbojet]

It really depends on the variableness of the framerate. SM is the safe option but in my case it was maybe 5% of the video that was >23 fps. I chose to deal with the judder in those parts over the motion blur. IIRC mediainfo only listed original fps 23.976 so I don't know if anything could really be done with the file, splitter or madvr to work around it. You'd think with madvr's lookahead it could enable SM for that 5% in my case but I don't think it did.