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Old 13th March 2014, 22:02   #24921  |  Link
XMonarchY
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And yet another grand release
From mighty "mad" - my soul's caprice.
He's "mad" but also "shi", yes - "shi",
A great name combo for all times to be!


The above was written with assumption that madshi is pronounced like madshee, and not madshy/madshai

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm now using an sRGB curve for dithering of bitdepths smaller than 8bit. For 8bit dithering I'm using a pure power 1/0.45 curve.
Does that mean the image will be darker if the display is set to use BT.1886 gamma via 3DLUT in contrast to the previous madVR release?
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:12   #24922  |  Link
hannes69
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2 short questions:
1. I have a 6bit + FRC LCD display. What is the "right" setting (I know you hate this kind of question) for "the native display bitdepth is:" ?
a) 6 bit
b) 8 bit
c) use test patterns and decide whatīs looking best for you

2. Is there a workaround for using 23,976 and 24,000 Hz refresh rates side-by-side in Windows for use with the display switcher (I donīt want to use smoothmotion or Reclock and my projector only accepts refresh rates in the 30Hz - 60 Hz region so actually I want to use 47,952 and 48,000 Hz with the EDID override method, I have to lower both refresh rates because of the clock deviation, so I end up with two 47,xxx refresh rates, Windows canīt distinguish them...)

Thanks for your help
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:21   #24923  |  Link
XMonarchY
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I apologize for off-topic, but how do I add this LumaSharpen 1.4.1 script or custom whatever-it-is to madVR? I use JRiver with madVR... I also have MPC-HC. I keep hearing people talk about it as something worth a try!
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:24   #24924  |  Link
JarrettH
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What is the 7-bit bitdepth option for anyway?

edit: Hannes69 asked the same question as me basically

Is linear light processing for dithering supposed to be better? In general, I'd be interested in a little blip about linear light processing. Thanks madshi

Last edited by JarrettH; 13th March 2014 at 22:40.
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:28   #24925  |  Link
turbojet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I apologize for off-topic, but how do I add this LumaSharpen 1.4.1 script or custom whatever-it-is to madVR? I use JRiver with madVR... I also have MPC-HC. I keep hearing people talk about it as something worth a try!
You can't use it with jrmc until it or madvr adds pixel shader support. To use it with mpc-hc copy the script (check my sig) into a txt file, rename it .hlsl and put it in mpc-hc's shaders directory. In mpc-hc right click>shaders>select shaders.

The defaults are horrible, I'd suggest pattern 3 and adjusting strength between 0.5-2.0, increasing clamp improves really fine detail without artifacts if adjusted correctly, I use 0.5.
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Old 13th March 2014, 22:53   #24926  |  Link
noee
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madshi,
I think there's a problem with jRiver. If I start playback on my secondary monitor (FSE mode) all looks good, but then when I click on anything like an icon or a window on my primary, video goes to black, but it keeps playing and I still get audio. I can get it back by double-clicking (to display mode back to primary) and then going full screen again. No issues like this with any prev madVR versions...

CCC14.2B, jRiver MC19 b122

Lemme know if you want a log.
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Old 13th March 2014, 23:11   #24927  |  Link
Shiandow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Gamma "correction"? You mean gamma processing? That is done somewhere in the middle of the processing chain, IIRC. Gamma "correction" (as in fixing incorrect display gamma response) is done by the 3dlut or the 1dluts, which is done as the next to last step, right before dithering.
Oh I see, I didn't expect gamma processing and gamma correction to be treated differently. I also expected both to come after smooth motion. Doing gamma processing before smooth motion makes it more or less impossible to do the linear light correction at the same time. I still think that doing the gamma processing 'implicitely' by using two different gamma curves for smooth motion is somewhat more elegant, since you can interpret it as displaying the source using an ideal monitor and then encoding the result using the gamma curve of the actual monitor (or an approximation thereof). This approach seems more intuitive and flexible, but I'd understand if you don't want to spend too much time on something which doesn't really improve picture quality.
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Old 13th March 2014, 23:54   #24928  |  Link
DigitalLF
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MadShi!!!! ESET Smart Security think your newest version is a virus.. "Probably unknown NewHeur_PE virus"... I'm just informing you even if there is no virus...
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Old 14th March 2014, 00:39   #24929  |  Link
JonnyRedHed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalLF View Post
MadShi!!!! ESET Smart Security think your newest version is a virus.. "Probably unknown NewHeur_PE virus"... I'm just informing you even if there is no virus...
I've reported it to ESET.

Last edited by JonnyRedHed; 14th March 2014 at 00:41. Reason: my cat ate my brain again
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Old 14th March 2014, 01:10   #24930  |  Link
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I received an e-mail from nVidia regarding OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop problem. They are investigating it still, but at least we (or I) know they are aware of it.
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Old 14th March 2014, 01:17   #24931  |  Link
Eiffel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madTPG doesn't allow you to "enable" these things. You can just disable them, or not disable them. So I'm not 100% sure what you mean. If you have GPU gamma ramps loaded, and haven't told either madVR nor madTPG to disable them, then they should stay active/installed - unless the software which remote controls madTPG tells madTPG to disable the GPU gamma ramps. ArgyllCMS does that, I think. But HCFR not, AFAIK.
What I meant is that with the latest versions of MadTPG (at least until today), it is no longer possible to 'not disable' both the VideoLUTs and 3dlut at the same time. In other words, at least one of the two buttons is "blue"

HCFR has options to disable the VideoLUT or 3dlut (under Measure - Generator - Configure), but it can't undo what is disabled by MadTPG
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Old 14th March 2014, 01:23   #24932  |  Link
seiyafan
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Sorry I missed the party, what visual improvement does "linear light processing for ordered dithering and error diffusion" do?
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Old 14th March 2014, 01:34   #24933  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I received an e-mail from nVidia regarding OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop problem. They are investigating it still, but at least we (or I) know they are aware of it.
after all the money ive spent on that titan , they better get this fixed asap , but as said something tells me this is just theyre usual run o the mill automated email response they send out to all the other bugfix tickets they send out

Last edited by sexus; 14th March 2014 at 01:38.
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Old 14th March 2014, 03:21   #24934  |  Link
XMonarchY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexus View Post
after all the money ive spent on that titan , they better get this fixed asap , but as said something tells me this is just theyre usual run o the mill automated email response they send out to all the other bugfix tickets they send out
This one was not automated - I am quite certain that a real person is really looking into, maybe even reading this exact post because I linked them to this thread.
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Old 14th March 2014, 04:41   #24935  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiffel View Post
What I meant is that with the latest versions of MadTPG (at least until today), it is no longer possible to 'not disable' both the VideoLUTs and 3dlut at the same time. In other words, at least one of the two buttons is "blue"

HCFR has options to disable the VideoLUT or 3dlut (under Measure - Generator - Configure), but it can't undo what is disabled by MadTPG
Do you have a a set of linear VidoeLUTs attached to your 3DLUT (collink option "-a")?
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Old 14th March 2014, 06:58   #24936  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
I'm now using an sRGB curve for dithering of bitdepths smaller than 8bit. For 8bit dithering I'm using a pure power 1/0.45 curve.
Good choice.
Thank you for another great build.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 14th March 2014 at 07:08.
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Old 14th March 2014, 07:28   #24937  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
2 short questions:
1. I have a 6bit + FRC LCD display. What is the "right" setting (I know you hate this kind of question) for "the native display bitdepth is:" ?
a) 6 bit
b) 8 bit
c) use test patterns and decide whatīs looking best for you
I would say a) and c) although you should always do c) anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
What is the 7-bit bitdepth option for anyway?
Less bitdepth will give you a "sharper" or noiser display, many people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 8bit and 7bit, pick what you prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Sorry I missed the party, what visual improvement does "linear light processing for ordered dithering and error diffusion" do?
I believe it's just to be more accurate, I did a comparison and the changes are so slight I doubt anyone could notice them, hey but I'm always down for more image quality/accuracy no matter how slight.
That's what makes MadVR what it is, no compromises. I do hope madshi updates the screenshots when 1.0 hits.. things have changed a bit now. Quite impressed how far things have come along since the early days, it's been fun.

Last edited by ryrynz; 14th March 2014 at 09:08.
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Old 14th March 2014, 13:55   #24938  |  Link
andybkma
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madshi, I am getting lots of "madVR reports: - Creating direct3d device failed (8876086a)" errors with this new build 87.7 when starting to play various vids. Cannot find a pattern but it is happening alot. I have to close and reopen Zoom Player then it works again.

With previous build 87.6 I didn't get these, not once.
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Old 14th March 2014, 14:57   #24939  |  Link
leeperry
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I'm also getting quite a lot of "this device doesn't support overlay" and I'm seeing tearing in windowed/FSW even though I'm quite sure that wasn't the case with older builds like 2 weeks ago. I've got Aero disabled BTW.
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Old 14th March 2014, 15:03   #24940  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
madshi: Is overlay being at least 16 shades(?) darker than window and FSE mode over nvidia svideo an issue that can be corrected by madvr?
You should fix it by creating custom resolutions in the NVidia control panel for all modes you're interested in. The key problem is that seemingly in windowed and FSE mode NVidia does violence to madVR's output. Of course it would be possible for me to offer different settings for Overlay mode compared to windowed/FSE mode, but that's not really a good idea. Because if you get different levels in Overlay mode that just proves that windowed/FSE modes are broken for you. And "broken" means you get suboptimal quality with banding artifacts etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
The above was written with assumption that madshi is pronounced like madshee
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
Does that mean the image will be darker if the display is set to use BT.1886 gamma via 3DLUT in contrast to the previous madVR release?
Linear light processing makes the dithered image ever so slightly darker, but at 8bit you will probably not be able to see a difference in brightness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
2 short questions:
1. I have a 6bit + FRC LCD display. What is the "right" setting (I know you hate this kind of question) for "the native display bitdepth is:" ?
a) 6 bit
b) 8 bit
c) use test patterns and decide whatīs looking best for you
You already know the right answer, don't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hannes69 View Post
2. Is there a workaround for using 23,976 and 24,000 Hz refresh rates side-by-side in Windows for use with the display switcher (I donīt want to use smoothmotion or Reclock and my projector only accepts refresh rates in the 30Hz - 60 Hz region so actually I want to use 47,952 and 48,000 Hz with the EDID override method, I have to lower both refresh rates because of the clock deviation, so I end up with two 47,xxx refresh rates, Windows canīt distinguish them...)
From what I can see, this got nothing to do with madVR. The problem is that the OS can't handle your EDID override. madVR is not involved there at all. I've no experience with EDID overrides, so I can't really help you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
What is the 7-bit bitdepth option for anyway?
The internal processing of some displays can't properly display 8bit images without introducing banding artifacts. Setting madVR to 7bit or 6bit could help work around that, on the cost of a slightly higher noise floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Is linear light processing for dithering supposed to be better? In general, I'd be interested in a little blip about linear light processing.
Yes. Linear light processing is usually more accurate. Image upscaling is a noticeable exception to this, though. When using image upscaling I rather recommend turning linear light off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noee View Post
I think there's a problem with jRiver. If I start playback on my secondary monitor (FSE mode) all looks good, but then when I click on anything like an icon or a window on my primary, video goes to black, but it keeps playing and I still get audio. I can get it back by double-clicking (to display mode back to primary) and then going full screen again. No issues like this with any prev madVR versions...
Which previous version were you using? v0.87.6? Or an older build? If it was an older build then please try to find out which build introduced this problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiandow View Post
Oh I see, I didn't expect gamma processing and gamma correction to be treated differently. I also expected both to come after smooth motion. Doing gamma processing before smooth motion makes it more or less impossible to do the linear light correction at the same time. I still think that doing the gamma processing 'implicitely' by using two different gamma curves for smooth motion is somewhat more elegant, since you can interpret it as displaying the source using an ideal monitor and then encoding the result using the gamma curve of the actual monitor (or an approximation thereof). This approach seems more intuitive and flexible, but I'd understand if you don't want to spend too much time on something which doesn't really improve picture quality.
Yeah, I kinda want to leave this topic behind me for now. Thinking about all the complex complications makes my head hurt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalLF View Post
MadShi!!!! ESET Smart Security think your newest version is a virus.. "Probably unknown NewHeur_PE virus"... I'm just informing you even if there is no virus...
False positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMonarchY View Post
I received an e-mail from nVidia regarding OpenCL <-> D3D9 interop problem. They are investigating it still, but at least we (or I) know they are aware of it.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiffel View Post
What I meant is that with the latest versions of MadTPG (at least until today), it is no longer possible to 'not disable' both the VideoLUTs and 3dlut at the same time. In other words, at least one of the two buttons is "blue"
You mean you can't "unpress" both buttons at the same time? Works just fine on my PC. Are you talking about madTPG running on its own? Or while ArgyllCMS and/or HCFR are doing measurements through madTPG? In the moment when ArgyllCMS/HCFR take control of madTPG, they have the "power" to enforce these buttons to be pressed. However, as long as no other software is remote controlling madTPG, it should be possible to unpress both of those buttons at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seiyafan View Post
Sorry I missed the party, what visual improvement does "linear light processing for ordered dithering and error diffusion" do?
Compare it at 2-4bit, and you'll see for yourself. Of course at 8bit the difference is very very small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
madshi, I am getting lots of "madVR reports: - Creating direct3d device failed (8876086a)" errors with this new build 87.7 when starting to play various vids. Cannot find a pattern but it is happening alot. I have to close and reopen Zoom Player then it works again.

With previous build 87.6 I didn't get these, not once.
Is this with Overlay mode on or off? Does it only happen in FSE mode, or also if you stay in windowed mode? How often is "alot"? How many times out of how many? Does it only occur on the secondary monitor or also on the primary? And how can I reproduce this on my PC? I need more details!!
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