madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

Originally Posted by SEX

It would be fantastic!

creating a 3d lut takes easily 5 mins...

[SEX]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Ah, it is just PotPlayer hacks then. :devil:

If it's hack, then for me it's a mystery why it does not work for the madVR. Since they receive data from the decoder in the same format, and this "hack" possibly works as an intermediate layer

[SEX]

Originally Posted by huhn

creating a 3d lut takes easily 5 mins...

Why do this every time you start if the ICC profile has not changed?

[bkrieger]

I have a GTX 980 TI 6GB paired with a Ryzen 8 1800X. I just want to know if the following settings are correct or if anything needs to be changed. Thanks


Chroma Upscaling- NGU AA high

Image Upscaling- doubling NGU Sharp

Luma doubling - high

Luma quadrupling- let MadVR decide


Chroma- Normal


Activate doubling / quadrupling

doubling- always- supersamplong

Quadrupling- let madvr decide

if any more Upscaling- Upscaling and downscaling let MADVR decide

Image downscaling - SSIM 1D 100%. LL- Ringing Fiktet strict soft




Thanks

[ryrynz]

Depends on your content, personally I'd drop chroma or luma scaling back if you need the headroom to hit that sweet SSIM 2D, your decision if you want to stick AR on top of that but personally I'd rather use that headroom for luma and chroma.

[mytbyte]

Originally Posted by SEX

I tried it. Does not recognize my colorimeter.

There is a small program that comes with DisplayCAL, it's called 3D LUT maker, which can convert your ICC to MadVR LUT. It's right there on the program list in DisplayCAL section.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Wow, EVR uses an ICC profile in Windows 10 now?

There has been an option in MPC as well to use system ICC profile with EVR, so it's not the feature of EVR per se but players have supported it for quite some time now.

Sent from my GM 5 Plus d using Tapatalk

[SEX]

Originally Posted by mytbyte

There is a small program that comes with DisplayCAL, it's called 3D LUT maker, which can convert your ICC to MadVR LUT. It's right there on the program list in DisplayCAL section.

It creates a 3DLUT with standard profiles, but as soon as I open the profile of the monitor in it, gives an error

[mytbyte]

Originally Posted by SEX

It creates a 3DLUT with standard profiles, but as soon as I open the profile of the monitor in it, gives an error

Where do you open the monitor profile, source or destination? I should be destination.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by SEX

It creates a 3DLUT with standard profiles, but as soon as I open the profile of the monitor in it, gives an error

Yes, I have never gotten it to work with a profile created by anything but Argyllcms.

Unfortunately there are simply too many formats or types of ICC profiles and that tool doesn't support all of them. Proper handling of most ICC profiles is a big job.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Originally Posted by huhn

creating a 3d lut takes easily 5 mins...

Firefox's qcms does it on the fly whenever it encounters an image with a new color space (albeit only with gfx.color_management.enablev4 set to true I think). The resolution is something like 30x30x30 though. I imagine madVR would want something a bit bigger, then use interpolation to get the full 256x256x256 and cache the result. Of course, that's assuming madshi has any interest in doing this :P I'm just saying it should be possible.

[huhn]

that's not my point it's just that it takes easily 5 mins for a 64³ a 256 takes well... easily hours.

[SEX]

Originally Posted by mytbyte

Where do you open the monitor profile, source or destination? I should be destination.

Destination. Getting an error "not an ICC or .cal file"

[e-t172]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

That doesn't support a lot of possible ICC profiles, I couldn't get it to work using ICC profiles created by X-rite's i1Profiler.

Yeah, that comes down to the fact that ArgyllCMS doesn't support ICCv4

Originally Posted by Ver Greeneyes

Personally I think it would be nice if madVR could load say LCMS as an external dll or something and generate its 3DLUTs on the fly from the monitor's ICC profile for each target color space. The resulting 3DLUTs (which could be cached somewhere) would presumably be of somewhat lower quality than using ArgyllCMS' collink, but I think it would significantly increase the number of people receiving color correction (even if they did still have to download LCMS separately due to licensing or whatever).

I've already made that exact suggestion to madshi 5 years ago, but I failed to convince him.

With modern HDR tech there is a new, additional reason to do this: if you generate the 3DLUT on the fly, you can fine-tune it according to the source metadata (especially things like source gamut and luminance metadata), something that's impossible to do with a static, pregenerated 3DLUT. I suspect this will become more and more useful in a world where we're moving away from static source colorspaces and towards dynamic metadata.

Originally Posted by SEX

No. If I use the "Use Display ICC Color Gamut Correction" in the PotPlayer, then the colors match in the PotPlayer, but only for EVR, does not work for madVR

Perhaps PotPlayer is using their own custom presenter for EVR, in which they implemented ICC support themselves.

Originally Posted by huhn

that's not my point it's just that it takes easily 5 mins for a 64³ a 256 takes well... easily hours.

That's only if you want a 256x256x256 3DLUT, though, which is grossly overkill. Virtually all color management software uses smaller 3DLUTs (64x64x64 or less), interpolating between points. There is no evidence that anyone can see the difference. In fact, the ArgyllCMS docs (colprof -q option) explicitly tell you *not* to generate an ICC profile with too many points, because otherwise you can end up with sudden "jumps" in the data (due to colorimeter error and stuff) that end up creating banding and generally being counter-productive. Sometimes better is the the enemy of good. Using smaller 3DLUTs would also make madVR start up faster (no need to load a 100 MB file) and would likely get rid of various bugs caused by the huge size of the 3DLUT. (madshi said that he might consider giving the option of using smaller 3DLUTs.)

[SEX]

Originally Posted by e-t172

Perhaps PotPlayer is using their own custom presenter for EVR, in which they implemented ICC support themselves.

But how did the color correction work in the madVR before the 3DLUT appeared?

[e-t172]

It didn't

(Well, there was a time where madVR supported something called yCMS, which IIRC was just a rudimentary 3DLUT generator integrated into madVR directly. It had no ICC support either. You had to input your primaries/white point manually. Fun times.)

[mytbyte]

Originally Posted by e-t172

Perhaps PotPlayer is using their own custom presenter for EVR, in which they implemented ICC support themselves.

As well as MPC-HC (and MPC-BE consequently). It's available with the selection of EVR Custom presenter.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by e-t172

With modern HDR tech there is a new, additional reason to do this: if you generate the 3DLUT on the fly, you can fine-tune it according to the source metadata (especially things like source gamut and luminance metadata), something that's impossible to do with a static, pregenerated 3DLUT. I suspect this will become more and more useful in a world where we're moving away from static source colorspaces and towards dynamic metadata.

Except that generating a madVR-style 3DLUT in any quality is actually a quite slow process and can take minutes in processing time, which makes "on the fly" not quite so snappy.

[e-t172]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Except that generating a madVR-style 3DLUT in any quality is actually a quite slow process and can take minutes in processing time, which makes "on the fly" not quite so snappy.

Considering that Photoshop and other image viewer software (e.g. web browsers) do such on-the-fly gamut mapping on a routine basis with no perceivable delay, I don't think that's an unsolvable problem.

[huhn]

sorry but the current 3D LUTs are not just slow for fun.

we are talking about to change a process from 5 mins to at most a couple of sec.

sorry to say this but web browser don't do this in an quality way comparable to the 3d LUT in madVR and most important no one said they do it with a 3D LUT at all.

just to make this clear what a web browser does with a ICC file when a video plays is just garbage in term of quality.

[Jong]

I posted this over at JRiver Media Center's forum because MC has some of it's own display mode switching code, but Nevcairiel thinks it's a pure MadVR question better suited to here.

I have an LG E6 and an HTPC with an Nvidia GTX1050 GPU (390.65 driver). In Nvidia control panel, if I select 2160p YCbCr 4:2:2 and tell MadVR I have a 10-bit capable display all works well for HDR video.

I noticed by accident that if I change Nvidia video mode to RGB 8-bit then when I play a 60Hz HDR test clip (eg. LG's "Chess") I was getting "sparkles", showing HDMI errors.

I noticed that MadVR was outputting 10-bit depth even when using RGB and 4K/60 RGB 10-bit is not allowed by HDMI 2.0. Hendrik/Nevcairiel told me that this was not necessarily wrong as MadVR can/should output 10-bit RGB regardless whether the driver is in YCbCr 4:2:2 or RGB mode and the driver will do any necessary conversion as requested in the driver and allowed by HDMI 2.0. I.e. the driver should convert to 4:2:2 10-bit or RGB 8-bit as necessary.

However, I also connected the PC via an Oppo 203, hoping to get more information on the video mode being used by the PC. Instead I found that MadVR used 8-bit mode when connected via the Oppo instead of 10-bit when connected direct.

Any thoughts on why MadVR behaves differently when the Oppo is in the chain, which 'seems' to keep the PC 'legal'?