Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Hardware & Software > Software players

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11th November 2013, 22:04   #20861  |  Link
Werewolfy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It's a pretty mean example, but I can see what you mean. When frame stepping through the fade in, the first few frames are quite washed out with the "high" setting. The remaining frames of the fade in show little difference between "low" and "high", though. And in motion I'm not sure I see much of a difference, either. There's probably always a sample which works bad with a different setting. I could probably find a sample which with "medium" setting would still show banding during a fade in/out while it wouldn't show banding with "high". With such a sample "high" would look better. So which is the better overall setting? I'm not really sure.

Opinions from other users welcome, as well.
In motion I can see the difference between medium and high. The face appears without any details and is very smooth with high.

But I have a very weird issue with this new feature. When I'm watching a movie in 24hz, I get frames dropped when I activate a different strength for fade in/out. It happens only in exclusive mode. It doesn't happen in windowed mode or in 60hz mode.
Werewolfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th November 2013, 23:23   #20862  |  Link
Boltron
Registered User
 
Boltron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Hahaha.

Would it not be more sensible to only scan for tags inside square brackets? For example:

Men In Black [1997, 1080p24, 5.1]
Noooo, I use [] in my naming convention.
Boltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 00:18   #20863  |  Link
MistahBonzai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 101
Frame drop reporting with 'fade' limmited to FSE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can reproduce the problem. However, playback still seems perfectly smooth on my PC. It's possible that this is a false alarm in the debug OSD. I'll investigate.
Yup..I don't have visual indication of actual dropped frames. CPU useage dosen't increase and it's limmited to FSE mode.
MistahBonzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 00:20   #20864  |  Link
agustin9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
OMG, yes, "Black 1997" gets treated as a valid tag, changing the black level of the video to 1997. Obviously that doesn't make much sense. But any "someTag someValue" combination is accepted as a file name tag. And "black" is a supported tag name. If you put the 1997 in brackets like "Men in Black (1997)", the problem should go away. That's also how IMDB names movies and how I'm storing movies on my server. Well, I'm glad we got this mystery solved.

Now the question is: Should I require a "tag=value" syntax? Currently I support "tag=value", "tag:value" and "tag value". And "black" is a supported tag.
tag=value to avoid confussions i think
agustin9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 03:54   #20865  |  Link
zero9999
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Now the question is: Should I require a "tag=value" syntax? Currently I support "tag=value", "tag:value" and "tag value". And "black" is a supported tag.
Storing this kind of information in file names at all is not only error prone, but also very ugly. How about using NTFS alternate data streams instead?

The user would then simply run Add-Content V:\myvideo.mkv -Stream madVr "deint: ivtc" to add tags while the filename is kept clean.

Last edited by zero9999; 12th November 2013 at 04:14.
zero9999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 04:57   #20866  |  Link
Razoola
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 454
Personally I think it needs something like this in the filename so there can be no mistakes....

'Men in Black madVR[tags here]'

Basically the need for 'madVR' to be written in the file name.
Razoola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 07:43   #20867  |  Link
romulous
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero9999 View Post
Storing this kind of information in file names at all is not only error prone, but also very ugly. How about using NTFS alternate data streams instead?
ADS are NTFS only, say goodbye to using tags on non-NTFS drives if madshi implements that. For me, ADS is just an added complication, and shouldn't be done - needing to use another command to enter the tags when a simple rename of the file is all that is required as currently (and with renaming, you can see the tags without having to check the ADS as an added side benefit).

As I too use [ ] in my filenames, I would vote for '='
romulous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 08:44   #20868  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
Ok, tags will require "=" in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Found a video that crashes with deint=ivtc and potplayer but 'send bug report' opens a blank browser window with mailto: but nothing happens. Is it reporting?
No. For some reason uploading the bug report seems to fail in your case, and mailto seems to fail, too. Your best bet is to not even try sending, but just close the bug report window. You should then get a crash report file on your desktop which you can PM to me.

IVTC currently only officially supports 8bit 4:2:0. Maybe the video you tested with had a different format?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Would it make sense to deband after downsizing to lower gpu load?
Hmmmmm... Good question. I believe all "artifact removal" algorithms should ideally be run on the unscaled source. But then, running debanding after downscaling might work fine, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
In motion I can see the difference between medium and high. The face appears without any details and is very smooth with high.
Ok. Would still like to get feedback from other users, as well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
But I have a very weird issue with this new feature. When I'm watching a movie in 24hz, I get frames dropped when I activate a different strength for fade in/out. It happens only in exclusive mode. It doesn't happen in windowed mode or in 60hz mode.
Already been reported. Will be fixed in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zero9999 View Post
How about using NTFS alternate data streams instead?
Wouldn't work for me. I'm storing my movies on a Linux based server, using ReiserFS. Maybe I'll think of an alternative tagging solution in some future version, but not now.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 11:53   #20869  |  Link
DragonQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by zero9999 View Post
Storing this kind of information in file names at all is not only error prone, but also very ugly. How about using NTFS alternate data streams instead?

The user would then simply run Add-Content V:\myvideo.mkv -Stream madVr "deint: ivtc" to add tags while the filename is kept clean.
Oh yes people will love having to edit videos via the command line.

This is a Windows application, not a Linux one.
__________________
HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
TV Setup: LG OLED55B7V; Onkyo TX-NR515; Minix U9-H
DragonQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 11:55   #20870  |  Link
DragonQ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltron View Post
Noooo, I use [] in my naming convention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romulous View Post
As I too use [ ] in my filenames, I would vote for '='
I'm curious as to why you'd use square brackets in file names for anything other than metadata? I don't know of any TV or film titles using square brackets, only normal ones.

Requiring = between tag name and tag value seems sensible.
__________________
HTPC Hardware: Intel Celeron G530; nVidia GT 430
HTPC Software: Windows 7; MediaPortal 1.19.0; Kodi DSPlayer 17.6; LAV Filters (DXVA2); MadVR
TV Setup: LG OLED55B7V; Onkyo TX-NR515; Minix U9-H
DragonQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 13:28   #20871  |  Link
romulous
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
I'm curious as to why you'd use square brackets in file names for anything other than metadata? I don't know of any TV or film titles using square brackets, only normal ones.
I often change the filenames of files so that they make more sense to me - when I do, if I want to keep the original filename for some reason (the original filename can be important, so sometimes I do want to keep it, sometimes I don't), I put the original filename in square brackets at the end. I've used this same system for years, so I have built up a large number of files named in this way.

So, the file "foo.bar" (which tells me nothing about what the file actually is) would become "More descriptive name [foo].bar" for example.
romulous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 16:25   #20872  |  Link
HeadlessCow
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, tags will require "=" in the next build.
Wouldn't work for me. I'm storing my movies on a Linux based server, using ReiserFS. Maybe I'll think of an alternative tagging solution in some future version, but not now.
While not every video format supports arbitrary tags, MKV does for sure and MP4 and AVI, I believe, do as well and those formats probably comprise 90% of the media that madvr users have. It would perhaps be useful to define a set of tags and read them directly out of the file rather than the filename.
HeadlessCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 16:28   #20873  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
As I said, I might look into alternative tagging solution in the future, but not now.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 17:41   #20874  |  Link
6233638
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I believe all "artifact removal" algorithms should ideally be run on the unscaled source. But then, running debanding after downscaling might work fine, too.
I actually did some testing on this, and with low resolution videos, and high strength debanding, it was actually beneficial as far as artifacts are concerned, to upscale externally and then have madVR process the image. That way you have pixel-sized "dither/noise" rather than giant upscaled noise. (I know you said you don't dither, but it's done something like dithering to smooth out those gradients)

However, debanding was considerably less effective after doing this - it needed much higher settings to work, and some things just weren't seen as gradients.
6233638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 18:24   #20875  |  Link
Boltron
Registered User
 
Boltron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
I'm curious as to why you'd use square brackets in file names for anything other than metadata? I don't know of any TV or film titles using square brackets, only normal ones.

Requiring = between tag name and tag value seems sensible.
I do use them for metadata. I use it to identify the video and audio streams for my own purposes. For example [BlurayRip - DTSMA 7.1] or [1080p@12.3 - DTS].
Boltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 19:17   #20876  |  Link
DarkSpace
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I actually did some testing on this, and with low resolution videos, and high strength debanding, it was actually beneficial as far as artifacts are concerned, to upscale externally and then have madVR process the image. That way you have pixel-sized "dither/noise" rather than giant upscaled noise. (I know you said you don't dither, but it's done something like dithering to smooth out those gradients)

However, debanding was considerably less effective after doing this - it needed much higher settings to work, and some things just weren't seen as gradients.
How about just "scaling" the debanding values from video size to output size and applying debanding after scaling?
Can the debanding range (what pixels are looked at) be scaled for x and y dimensions separately? Can the AngleBoost algorithm be adapted to this? How about the banding/detail decision?

Does it perhaps even make sense to specify the debanding options for a fixed size and always scale from that size to the video (or output) size? (I know, that idea might just as well be incredibly bad.)
DarkSpace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2013, 23:10   #20877  |  Link
turbojet
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
No. For some reason uploading the bug report seems to fail in your case, and mailto seems to fail, too. Your best bet is to not even try sending, but just close the bug report window. You should then get a crash report file on your desktop which you can PM to me.

IVTC currently only officially supports 8bit 4:2:0. Maybe the video you tested with had a different format?
I updated the bug tracker with the crash report. Switching madvr to debug was the only way to get the log. http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=125

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Hmmmmm... Good question. I believe all "artifact removal" algorithms should ideally be run on the unscaled source. But then, running debanding after downscaling might work fine, too.
I remember when I messing with avisynth resizing and f3kdb there wasn't a noticeable difference whether it was pre or post resize. Maybe worth checking out to lessen load?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok. Would still like to get feedback from other users, as well?
It doesn't appear noticeably faster for me.
__________________
PC: FX-8320 GTS250 HTPC: G1610 GTX650
PotPlayer/MPC-BE LAVFilters MadVR-Bicubic75AR/Lanczos4AR/Lanczos4AR LumaSharpen -Strength0.9-Pattern3-Clamp0.1-OffsetBias2.0
turbojet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2013, 16:42   #20878  |  Link
Megalith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 110
This might be a silly question, but does adding a 3D LUT to madVR override your Windows color profile completely, or are its settings combined with the color profile that you have set in Windows color management?
Megalith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2013, 16:54   #20879  |  Link
dansrfe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post
This might be a silly question, but does adding a 3D LUT to madVR override your Windows color profile completely, or are its settings combined with the color profile that you have set in Windows color management?
Ticking "disable GPU gamma ramps" under 'Calibration' means that Windows color profile will be disabled. If you've selected a 3DLUT then that will be applied after the Windows color profile if not disabled. It's better to calibrate without the Windows color profile in the middle and disable it upon playback if you're using a 3DLUT.
dansrfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2013, 17:05   #20880  |  Link
Gagorian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 27
@madshi

Nice work on the debanding algorithm. The only issue I've found (like someone else already mentioned) is that subtitles blink occasionally, I normally use xysubfilter but if I download subtitles through the MPC-HC subtitle download interface it's always loaded into the ISR Could the backrender feature be activated/deactivated based on subtitle renderer?

Also unfortunately my iGPU on the HTPC (A10-5700) isn't powerful enough to run Jinc3-AR combined debanding in some scenes (without debanding it was fine). I'm considering getting the R9 270 GPU, does anyone have any other suggestions?

P.S.
Awaiting the convergence adjustment feature like a kid for christmas

Last edited by Gagorian; 13th November 2013 at 17:09.
Gagorian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.