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Old 5th January 2010, 20:49   #9661  |  Link
SomeJoe
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1. Why the need to convert DTS-ES into something else? The DTS-ES stream is fully compatible with any DTS receiver, even if that receiver is 5.1 or doesn't recognize the ES extensions.

2. DTS-ES can come in two forms:

A) DTS-ES 5.1 Matrix, which derives the back center channel from matrix encoding on the Left Surround/Right Surround channels. This is the same way that Dolby Digital EX works. There is no difference between a DTS-ES 5.1 Matrix stream and a standard DTS 5.1 stream -- both contain 5.1 discrete channels of audio.

B) DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete, which actually has a discrete back center channel in the DTS stream. This is not nearly as common as the DTS-ES 5.1 Matrix described above. But this stream will still play back properly on 5.1 equipment, just without the back center channel.

If your current stream is DTS-ES 5.1 Matrix (likely), then there is no need for -down6, since the stream is already 5.1 channels.
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Old 5th January 2010, 21:35   #9662  |  Link
raquete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeJoe View Post
The DTS-ES stream is fully compatible with any DTS receiver, even if that receiver is 5.1 or doesn't recognize the ES extensions.
seems that have space for my fast question.
i have DTS receiver 6.1 and DTS-ES encoder but how to author & burn in medias(what 'format' to chose) ?
(with or without video, doesn't matter, the target is audio)

Happy New Year !
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Old 5th January 2010, 23:31   #9663  |  Link
wolfbane5
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SomeJoe,

I was converting the DTS-ES into DTS since I don't have a receiver and was planning on watching the movie on my computer, which has 5.1 audio.

As for Matrix or Discrete, MediaInfo is telling me this:

Quote:
General
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
File size : 1.46 GiB
Duration : 2h 18mn
Overall bit rate : 1 510 Kbps

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile : ES
Duration : 2h 18mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 510 Kbps
Channel(s) : 7 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Rear: L C R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.46 GiB (100%)
Am I correct in assuming that's DTS 6.1 Discrete?
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Old 6th January 2010, 01:55   #9664  |  Link
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You only need eac3to to know this. Check the DTS with eac3to:

DTS-ES, 5.1 channels, 0:00:22, 16 bits, 1510kbps, 48khz (Matrix)
DTS-ES, 6.1 channels, 0:00:22, 16 bits, 1510kbps, 48khz (Discrete)
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Old 6th January 2010, 02:09   #9665  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raquete View Post
i have DTS receiver 6.1 and DTS-ES encoder but how to author & burn in medias(what 'format' to chose) ?
The same than standard DTS.

To burn CD or play with some players (WD TV Live for instance) you need dtswav.

To mix with video or play on PC or some players (Xtreamer) you can use the .cpt (compact format) with the extension renamed to .dts.

Maybe some authoring program need the .dts (padded)
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Old 6th January 2010, 12:12   #9666  |  Link
ACrowley
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one question :

I never thought about but can ec3to outout 32bit float .wav and .wavs from any Source ?
Maybe -down32 works as a override ?

EDIT: no...doesnt work.

Last edited by ACrowley; 6th January 2010 at 12:59.
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Old 6th January 2010, 17:21   #9667  |  Link
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You can try using -full.

However I don't think eac3to will ever output at a higher bit depth (i.e. pad with zeroes) than is necessary.

So with the Nero decoder...
Code:
eac3to input.ac3 output.wav -full
...will result in 24bit output but...
Code:
eac3to input.ac3 output.wav -25.000 -changeTo24.000 -full
...will result in 64bit float output.
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Old 6th January 2010, 19:31   #9668  |  Link
raquete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
The same than standard DTS.

To burn CD or play with some players (WD TV Live for instance) you need dtswav.

To mix with video or play on PC or some players (Xtreamer) you can use the .cpt (compact format) with the extension renamed to .dts.

Maybe some authoring program need the .dts (padded)
very clever with full details.

thank you so much!
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Old 8th January 2010, 12:35   #9669  |  Link
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what does it mean again when I have a 7.1 track with a "strange setup" note? anything I have to look out for? and what was it again with a DTS-HD MA track with -2db dialnorm & eac3to saying "decoding this track with arcsoft resulsts in low volume" (its the same track in both cases)

guess I have a problem now, because arcsoft results in low volume and sonic can only do 5.1?

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 8th January 2010 at 12:38.
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Old 8th January 2010, 15:22   #9670  |  Link
xkodi
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Arcsoft can't do bit-perfect decode of DTS-HD MA 7.1 "strange setup" files, while Sonic can but only 5.1 channels, look at this posts and all links in it to understand more:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...18#post1179218
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Old 8th January 2010, 16:41   #9671  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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hm so whats the standing regarding this problem, is madshi willing to do this patch so that arcsoft can properly recognize the channel order?

and does the low volume decoding problem result from this strange channel order or from those -2db dialnorm value?

additionally, the acrsoft decoder says that track has constant 24-bit, while sonic says the 5.1 track is only 16-bit?

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 9th January 2010 at 00:43.
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Old 10th January 2010, 10:28   #9672  |  Link
SpaceAgeHero
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Hey folks,

I am having some troubles getting the Arcsoft DTS Decoder to work with eac3to.
Recently I installed Arcsoft Total Media Theatre and updated to 3.0.1.160.
I don't know what version of the dts decoder is included in this package.
Eac3to simply won't recognize the decoder. I'm currently running Windows 7 x64 Ultimate.
I also tried adding "c:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 3\" and/or "c:\Program Files (x86)\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Theatre 3\Codec\" to my environment path. c:\Program Files\Common Files\ArcSoft is not there!

Perhaps someone can help me out via E-Mail or private messages.
I do not want to bloat this thread with this issue.
Thank you!
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Old 10th January 2010, 14:47   #9673  |  Link
Leiw
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great program works fine for all my conversion needs
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Old 10th January 2010, 15:52   #9674  |  Link
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@SpaceAgeHero;
Try this thread out, should help you.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148324&page=2
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Old 11th January 2010, 09:14   #9675  |  Link
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demuxed .wav from eac3to and tsmuxer differ

I have "Pixar Short Films Collection" Bluray. "Mike's New Car" movie on this bluray has the following tracks:

eac3to.exe "PIX1EGD1\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00008.mpls"
1) 00008.mpls, 00006.m2ts, 0:03:49
- h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
- RAW/PCM, English, multi-channel, 48khz
...

I demuxed video and audio tracks with eac3to, tsmuxer and xport. Audio track in .pcm format created by eac3to and xport are bitwise identical. But the same audio track in .wav format produced by eac3to and tsmuxer are different.

Command lines used:

eac3to vs. xport:
eac3to.exe "PIX1EGD1\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00008.mpls" -demux
xport.exe -h "PIX1EGD1\BDMV\STREAM\00006.m2ts" 1 1 1

eac3to vs. tsmuxer:
eac3to.exe "PIX1EGD1\BDMV\PLAYLIST\00008.mpls" 2: audio_eac3to.wav
tsMuxeR.exe 1.meta .\

1.meta file content:
MUXOPT --demux
A_LPCM, "PIX1EGD1\BDMV\STREAM\00006.m2ts", track=4352, lang=eng, mplsFile=00008

Upon further analysis of .wav files created by eac3to and tsmuxer I discovered that these two .wav files contain different value in the dwChannelMask field in the .wav file header: tsmuxer .wav file has 0x0000003F and eac3to .wav file has 0x0000060F. Otherwise headers of both .wav files contain bitwise identical information. In the audio data contained within these two .wav files there were about 880 miscompared bytes (see wav_diff.txt attached to this post).

According to http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...ltichaud.mspx:

dwChannelMask=0x0000003F (tsmuxer):
FRONT_LEFT, FRONT_RIGHT, FRONT_CENTER, LOW_FREQUENCY, BACK_LEFT, BACK_RIGHT

dwChannelMask=0x0000060F (eac3to):
FRONT_LEFT, FRONT_RIGHT, FRONT_CENTER, LOW_FREQUENCY, SIDE_LEFT, SIDE_RIGHT.

My questions are:
1. Is it correct to say that eac3to or tsmuxer performed some kind of transformation of audio signal according to different dwChannelMask value which caused miscompared bytes in .wav files?
2. Which .wav file (produced by eac3to or tsmuxer) is "better" or "more identical to the source" and why?
Attached Files
File Type: txt wav_diff.txt (14.7 KB, 19 views)
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Old 11th January 2010, 09:53   #9676  |  Link
Abradoks
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neroAacEnc

neroAacEnc expects floating-point number as "-q" parameter while eac3to accepts only two decimal places. It is important because bitrate may vary significantly over 0.01, e.g. q=0.37 -> 240kbps, q=0.38 -> 370kbps.
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Old 11th January 2010, 12:20   #9677  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerGamer View Post
...
My questions are:
1. Is it correct to say that eac3to or tsmuxer performed some kind of transformation of audio signal according to different dwChannelMask value which caused miscompared bytes in .wav files?
2. Which .wav file (produced by eac3to or tsmuxer) is "better" or "more identical to the source" and why?
I can't see your wav_diff.txt (Attachements Pending Approval), use http://pastebin.com/ to upload txt files, but:

a) The Channel Mask 0x0000060F is the recommended by M$ for wav 5.1, after XP SP2, but the old 0x0000003F must be also compatible for 5.1. Then:
0x0000003F old, but compatible with old and new soft.
0x0000060F new, but can be a problem with old soft.

b) The audio data bit difference between eac3to and TsMuxer is a know, and reported, bug in TsMuxer extraction. Don't use TsMuxer to extract only to mux.

To answer your questions:
1) The channelmask are both valids and don't modify the audio data, the problem is the TsMuxer's bug.
2) Of course the eac3to wav is the "exact" audio source.
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Old 11th January 2010, 15:52   #9678  |  Link
AnryV
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Quote:
eac3to v3.17
command line: 00000_1_02.dtshd dtshd.wavs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTS Master Audio, 7.1 channels, 16 bits, 48khz
(core: DTS, 5.1 channels, 16 bits, 1509kbps, 48khz)
Decoding with ArcSoft DTS Decoder...
Writing WAVs...
Creating file "dtshd.C.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.R.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.SR.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.LFE.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.L.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.SL.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.BR.wav"...
Creating file "dtshd.BL.wav"...
00000_1_02.dtshd has the following scheme of channells (according to Scenaris and BDReauthor):
C,L,R,LFE,Lsr,Rsr,Lss,Rss

To what channels in this scheme do correspond eac3to's channels SL,SR,BL, BR?
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Old 11th January 2010, 17:50   #9679  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnryV View Post
00000_1_02.dtshd has the following scheme of channells (according to Scenaris and BDReauthor):
C,L,R,LFE,Lsr,Rsr,Lss,Rss

To what channels in this scheme do correspond eac3to's channels SL,SR,BL, BR?
SL (Side Left) is Lss (Left Surround Side?), SR is Rss.
BL (Back Left) is Lsr (Left Surround Rear?), BR is Rsr.
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Old 11th January 2010, 19:28   #9680  |  Link
PowerGamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
I can't see your wav_diff.txt (Attachements Pending Approval), use http://pastebin.com/ to upload txt files, but:

a) The Channel Mask 0x0000060F is the recommended by M$ for wav 5.1, after XP SP2, but the old 0x0000003F must be also compatible for 5.1. Then:
0x0000003F old, but compatible with old and new soft.
0x0000060F new, but can be a problem with old soft.

b) The audio data bit difference between eac3to and TsMuxer is a know, and reported, bug in TsMuxer extraction. Don't use TsMuxer to extract only to mux.

To answer your questions:
1) The channelmask are both valids and don't modify the audio data, the problem is the TsMuxer's bug.
2) Of course the eac3to wav is the "exact" audio source.
Tebasuna51, thanks for your explanations. Meanwhile I tryed to demux that audio track using Blu-Ray Demuxer Pro (http://dvd-logic.com/bddemuxerpro.php) and much to my dismay found out that it produces exactly the same .pcm file as eac3to/xport but completely different .wav file that practically in every byte (apart from header which is the same as tsmuxer's .wav file) differs from both eac3to and tsmuxer versions. Still all .wav files have exactly the same size and play fine in media player.

Once again it is unclear which .wav output is better: eac3to or Blu-Ray Demuxer Pro? And what is the difference between .pcm and .wav files and what kind of transformation is involved when converting from .pcm to .wav?

Last edited by PowerGamer; 11th January 2010 at 19:31.
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