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Old 27th January 2014, 01:02   #22021  |  Link
madshi
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@Asmodian, and how does v0.86.11 behave in comparison?
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:09   #22022  |  Link
Deim0s
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madshi,
Quote:
Which OS, which GPU?
My configuration in this message.
Quote:
Can you compare RAM consumption with v0.86.11 and v0.87.3 with your hardware/software, when playing back that 4K clip with 5/5/3 queues? Does v0.87.0 consume more RAM than v0.86.11?
Here I post screenshots of memory consumption. v0.87.* consumes less RAM.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:10   #22023  |  Link
jkauff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.87.3 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:
* fixed: blacked out video in Windows XP
* fixed: blacked out video when disabling "present several frames in advance"
Having read all the 0.87 posts, I'm still confused. As a GTX660 owner, is there any reason to upgrade from 0.86? I'm leaning toward holding off until the Nvidia OpenCL problem is worked out.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:34   #22024  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
@Asmodian, and how does v0.86.11 behave in comparison?
v0.86.11 works with all settings, memory usage is 1660 MB in FSE (LL on) and 1630 MB in FSW (LL on).

Same settings as above, defaults plus:
LL downscaling
24 GPU buffers (28 CPU)

Sorry I edited my original post with more details.

Edit:
GPU buffers at 10, back buffers at 8
FSW, 1175 MB (LL off), 1325 MB (LL on)

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 01:41.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:35   #22025  |  Link
Ver Greeneyes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
I agree, it's far less important than luma scaling - but I appreciate that madVR does have high quality chroma scaling options available.

Generally I would suggest:
  1. Mitchell-Netravali
  2. Bicubic 75 with the anti-ringing filter enabled
  3. Jinc 3 with the anti-ringing filter enabled
in order of performance impact and quality. (low to high)
I always appreciate these recommendations I know you've suggested image up- and downscaling settings before as well, but they're lost somewhere in this huge thread. Could you repeat your recommendations for image up- and downscaling in a similar format? I'm just able to use Jinc w/ AR for everything (Catmull-Rom for downscaling) on my desktop (nvidia so no OpenCL for now), but my laptop can't handle that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post
Having read all the 0.87 posts, I'm still confused. As a GTX660 owner, is there any reason to upgrade from 0.86? I'm leaning toward holding off until the Nvidia OpenCL problem is worked out.
0.87 added a new debanding filter and fixed a bug leading to frame drops. Most of the problems 0.87 introduced should be fixed in 0.87.3, and the OpenCL options won't affect you unless you enable them.

Last edited by Ver Greeneyes; 27th January 2014 at 01:52.
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:55   #22026  |  Link
mindbomb
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I have a question about image doubling(which also applies to the scaling factor requirement). Does doubling mean doubling the total amount of pixels, or doubling both the height and width (quadrupling the total pixels)?
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Old 27th January 2014, 01:56   #22027  |  Link
Asmodian
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@Ver Greeneyes
Here are the results of the discussion as understood by Niyawa:

As I understand their preferences 6233638 prefers less ringing to a bit sharper which is why they prefer Mitchell-Netravali to Bicubic 75. This is of course perfectly reasonable. I hope I am correct as to your reasoning, 6233638.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
I have a question about image doubling(which also applies to the scaling factor requirement). Does doubling mean doubling the total amount of pixels, or doubling both the height and width (quadrupling the total pixels)?
Doubling both the height and width

@madshi
Another note, using v0.87.3 with my normal settings (everything on ) watching 1080p on 1440p I see 2624 MB of video ram used when in FSW.

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 04:51.
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Old 27th January 2014, 02:11   #22028  |  Link
mimi123
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Hardware for deep color

Hello!

For about one month I'm trying to send video, from my HTPC, with more than 8 bits per color to my projector. I have tried Nvidia, Ati and Intel graphics (basic models) but without success.

I know my projector is 12 bits capable because I test it with a BD player and works.
I think the problem is the graphics card or the drivers.

My SO is Windows 8 and my favorite player is MPCHC with Madvr, of course.

Can you tell me some cards, with moderate price, to get 10 o more bits?

Very thanks.
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Old 27th January 2014, 02:51   #22029  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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Is the problem with dragging the screen to another monitor fixed? It would stop playback and you'd have to open the file again with the player on the second screen for it to play, or it would just stay stopped no matter matter. Pausing and Playing did nothing.
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Old 27th January 2014, 03:07   #22030  |  Link
Qotscha
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I think the performance of error diffusion is quite poor on my computer (Radeon HD 6850 with Catalyst 13.12). Here is a little comparison:

720p50 to 1080p50:
  • Jinc 4 + AR (Image + chroma), medium deband, random dithering: 91% GPU load, no dropped frames
  • Bilinear (Image + chroma), no deband, error diffusion: ~90% GPU load, a lot of dropped frames (result is about the same with any scaling algorithm)

It seems that also Vyral has these performance issues with 6850:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I haven't tested debanding or NNEDI3 upsampling or upscaling yet, only disabled everything in "Trade quality for performance". However, the rendering time and GPU load increased dramatically (from 12ms to 36ms in rendering time and 10% to 72% in GPU load, ouch).
After further testing, "use random dithering instead of openCL error diffusion" was the culprit.

Is openCL really that demanding ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyral View Post
I've tried to test the new OpenCL features on madVR but, even though I have a powerfull GPU, it seems I can't use any. Therefore, I will stick with Jinc 3 AR and Catmull-Rom AR/LL.
On the other hand, debanding works great with little impact on performance.
In case you need debug logs to improve the performance of OpenCL - D3D9 interop, or whatever the problem is, here is one where 720p50 is scaled to 1680*1050 using error diffusion and otherwise default settings.

Last edited by Qotscha; 27th January 2014 at 03:40.
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Old 27th January 2014, 03:16   #22031  |  Link
djfred93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimi123 View Post
Hello!

For about one month I'm trying to send video, from my HTPC, with more than 8 bits per color to my projector. I have tried Nvidia, Ati and Intel graphics (basic models) but without success.

I know my projector is 12 bits capable because I test it with a BD player and works.
I think the problem is the graphics card or the drivers.

My SO is Windows 8 and my favorite player is MPCHC with Madvr, of course.

Can you tell me some cards, with moderate price, to get 10 o more bits?

Very thanks.
MadVR can't do 10 bit output. A lot of answer is in this thread .
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Old 27th January 2014, 05:06   #22032  |  Link
MistahBonzai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qotscha View Post
720p50 to 1080p50:
  • Jinc 4 + AR (Image + chroma), medium deband, random dithering: 91% GPU load, no dropped frames
  • Bilinear (Image + chroma), no deband, error diffusion: ~90% GPU load, a lot of dropped frames (result is about the same with any scaling algorithm)
.
The use of openCL error diffusion demands too many GPU cycles that I could put to better advantage elsewhere. Simple playback of native 1080P via MadVR at default settings uses 19% GPU while simply enabling openCL error diffusion bumps it up to a steady 68% - and that's with a PCIE 3 2GB HD 7850 (latest Catalyst 13.2 driver pkg), i73770@3.4GH, Windows 7 64bit on a SSD. Display is 40" Sony Bravia (1080P w/10-bit panel) via HDMI 1.3b.

A bit of background... I mostly use MPC-HC, MadVR, LAV, FFDshow (raw), Reclock, AviSynth and AC3 Filter. Viewing/testing consists of analysis of video sample quality utilizing AviSynth(MT) based utilities - I don't watch movies or TV but I love to tweak :-). These samples often exceed 1080P (1920*1080/29.976 progressive) - going up to 4096*2304 DCI-P3.

For the past few weeks I've focused on AviSynth OpenCL variants - notably nnedi3ocl. In my estimation the current MadVR release (87.3) performs similar (within 15% or so) to what I have seen via AviSynth. My take on this particular usage of OpenCL is that it facilitates load balancing across the GPU/CPU while nnedi3 can certainly improve up-scaling quality - you can work wonders with low-rez porn clips :-).

It isn't a free lunch. And it's very heavily GPU dependent - resolution is everything. Up-scaling 854*480P to 1080P vis Interframe2 and/or SVP is about the practical limit on my rig before encountering occasional dropped frames. Note that I simultaneously employ video smoothing (frame interpolation) utilizing frame doubling, sharping and the like as needed. YMMV :-)

I offer-up a sincere thanks to all involved. And Madshi..you are the bomb! :-)

Last edited by MistahBonzai; 27th January 2014 at 06:47. Reason: missing HTML tag.
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Old 27th January 2014, 06:08   #22033  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Can you compare RAM consumption with v0.86.11 and v0.87.3 with your hardware/software, when playing back that 4K clip with 5/5/3 queues? Does v0.87.0 consume more RAM than v0.86.11?
I just noticed this question and figured I could try it.

Using v0.87.3 my system works if I use the defaults with 8 back buffers in FSW, FSE off is the only other thing I have changed.

Everything looks great in all these tests.
4K->1440p 30p

v0.87.3 queues 16/8/3
LL On 1683 MB
LL Off 1525 MB
queues 16/8/8
LL On 1787 MB
LL Off 1617 MB

v0.87.3 queues 16/9/8
LL On 1823 MB
LL Off 1654 MB

16/10/3 (worked this time? )
LL On 1779 MB
LL Off 1609 MB

V0.86.11 queues 16/8/3
LL On 1639 MB
LL Off 1511 MB
queues 16/8/8
LL On 1704 MB
LL Off 1537 MB

I the process of making this list I found something very odd.

Queues 13/13/8 works (good picture) but 13/12/8 gives black screen. 14/13/8 and 15/13/8 give black but 16/13/8 gives a good picture. This seems to be true with LL on or off, 24/22/8
LL Off (2295 MB) works but 23/22/8 doesn't, 23/20/8 does. Very odd; and these exact queue sizes seem to change. Sorry for the lack of good data.
I have tried restarting the player (Zoom Player) between setting the queues as well as restarting the computer but something may be wrong with my testing methodology for this.
Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Last edited by Asmodian; 27th January 2014 at 06:29.
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Old 27th January 2014, 06:22   #22034  |  Link
omarank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I think the performance problems with deinterlacing should finally be fixed now. So I hope this build will make v0.87 equal to (or better than) v0.86.11 in terms of stability and performance, as long as NVidia users don't touch OpenCL. Please test and let me know.
Yes, now the performance is better than v0.86.11. I haven't encountered any other problem with this build so far. Thanks!
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Old 27th January 2014, 08:19   #22035  |  Link
pie1394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistahBonzai View Post
For the past few weeks I've focused on AviSynth OpenCL variants - notably nnedi3ocl. In my estimation the current MadVR release (87.3) performs similar (within 15% or so) to what I have seen via AviSynth. My take on this particular usage of OpenCL is that it facilitates load balancing across the GPU/CPU while nnedi3 can certainly improve up-scaling quality - you can work wonders with low-rez porn clips :-).

It isn't a free lunch. And it's very heavily GPU dependent - resolution is everything. Up-scaling 854*480P to 1080P vis Interframe2 and/or SVP is about the practical limit on my rig before encountering occasional dropped frames. Note that I simultaneously employ video smoothing (frame interpolation) utilizing frame doubling, sharping and the like as needed. YMMV :-)
About the above 2 functionalities, it does not seem to help the noticeable subjective PQ performance on my KDL-65HX920. The TV itself has already given certain level of resolution enhancement and motion stability. Neither does the SmoothMotion on FILM contents to 60Hz output. Actually it is worse than native 1080p24 input mode in some complex scenes -- just like what it happens on my another Hitachi 42" PDP, an 1080i50/60 native panel with super-resolution engine + its 1080p24 signal optimization.

For the madVR 0.87.x debanding with angle-detection along with Jinc3AR mode, it seems to make the X-RealityPRO XCA7 engine's super-resolution processing more stable on quick motion object's edges.
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Old 27th January 2014, 08:54   #22036  |  Link
James Freeman
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Madshi,

Can you please add a "Stop cadence search", "Lock cadence" keyboard shortcut, or "Stop search once 3:2 found" option in Proccessing->Deinterlaced->Film Mode.
The reason is even in a known 24p telecined to 29.97i content ivtc still breaks cadences sometimes.

I don't know if it is appropriate to compare to other software, but I will for reference.
I own PowerDVD 13, in which Film Mode is completely automatic, when it detects soft telecined 29.97i it will switch to 24p and stay there.
For PAL DVD's it just stays at equivalent Video Mode.
Maybe its done with "Flags" or what (I'm not well read about that matter), but it just works, no cadence breaks and no resulting micro stutter.

Thanks.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 27th January 2014 at 09:03.
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Old 27th January 2014, 09:19   #22037  |  Link
sdancer75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

madVR currently does not support windowless, unfortunately. This is planned for a future version. But not any time soon.


Don't stop reading there. Read to the end of the "3RD PARTY SOFTWARE RESTRICTIONS" section.

Hi,

1) My app is not free, so can I ask for a free license or do I have to pay license fee ?

2) Still I can not make it to work : Here the code I use. I can see the madvr window inside my CView pane, and something that is moving (like a video playback) with flickering.

Code:


//Initialize madVR

	hr = m_pMadVR->QueryInterface(IID_IVideoWindow, (void **)&m_pVidWin);
	if (SUCCEEDED(hr)) {
		m_pVidWin->put_Owner((OAHWND)m_hMediaWindow);
		m_pVidWin->put_WindowStyle(WS_CHILD | WS_CLIPSIBLINGS);
		
		
		hr = m_pMadVR->QueryInterface(IID_IBasicVideo, (void **)&m_pBasicVideo);
		if (FAILED(hr)) {
		
			ReportError(_T("Failed to initialize IBasicVideo (madVR)."),hr);
			AMLOGINFO(_T("Failed to initialize IBasicVideo (madVR). errorcode=%s."),GetErrorCode(hr) );
			return FALSE;
		}

	} else {
	    ReportError(_T("Failed to initialize IVideoWindow (madVR)."),hr);
	    AMLOGINFO(_T("Failed to initialize IVideoWindow (madVR). errorcode=%s."),GetErrorCode(hr) );
	    return FALSE;
	}


//At my resize method

BOOL CGraph::Resize()
{

................

 if (m_RendererType == MADVR_RENDERER) {
		
        GetClientRect(m_hMediaWindow, &wndRect);
	m_pBasicVideo->GetVideoSize(&size.cx, &size.cy);
        m_pBasicVideo->SetDefaultSourcePosition();
        m_pBasicVideo->SetDestinationPosition(0, 0, wndRect.right, wndRect.bottom);
	m_pVidWin->SetWindowPosition(0, 0, wndRect.right, wndRect.bottom);
	}

...........

}
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Old 27th January 2014, 10:45   #22038  |  Link
iSunrise
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Thanks for 0.87.3 madshi, working great on my system. Letīs hope you can get the OpenCL stuff to work on NV, as I really want to test the new NNEDI3 for instance. Still having a lot (and I mean A LOT) of lower resolution movies (DVD) and videos where this could make a lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Proper languages use the same symbol for setting and evaluating variables.
So C++ isnīt a "proper" language in your world then? Ok, I donīt think we need to discuss this further.
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Old 27th January 2014, 11:36   #22039  |  Link
6233638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman View Post
Can you please add a "Stop cadence search", "Lock cadence" keyboard shortcut, or "Stop search once 3:2 found" option in Proccessing->Deinterlaced->Film Mode.
The reason is even in a known 24p telecined to 29.97i content ivtc still breaks cadences sometimes.
Set up a keyboard shortcut to force deinterlacing to film mode.
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Old 27th January 2014, 11:43   #22040  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Set up a keyboard shortcut to force deinterlacing to film mode.
I did.
The video has multi-cadence parts so madvr keeps switching between them.
I just want to stop cadence searching, and freeze on a certain cadence.


EDIT:

madshi,

Have you ever thought about adding a smart DeNoise & Sharpen algorithms?
I use the ffdshow "Blur & NR" -> denoise3d, for removing compression noise/grain and artifacts.
A little goes a long way (no need for strong settings), almost looks like its twice the bitrate with no apparent PQ/Sharpness loss.
There is a problem with ffdshow: its 8-bit, and any change destroys madvr 16-bit workflow.

With Dithering + DeBanding we currently have in MadVR, DeNoise from ffdshow, and MPC-LumaSharpen (from SuperFX, the best one yet) sharpening, I get a better picture from a full 50Gb blu-ray than it can ever have.
Almost Digital Cinema quality in terms of noise and PQ with these together (DCI is almost 300-500 Gb for a single movie).

Do you have plans to further add quality filters into MadVR like you did with NNEDI & Debanding?
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Last edited by James Freeman; 27th January 2014 at 13:30.
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