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Old 16th August 2005, 18:26   #61  |  Link
bobcat56458
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Hello johnman: Thanks for the great program, I’m using version 0.53. It works well converting a 5.1 Wave file into a DD5.1 AC3 file using the linked to ac3enc.dll, but when I try to do the same using Soft Encode version 1.0 (Build 19) I get the error message [CB error on: “name of 5.1 wave file.wav”. The configuration of conversion batcher requires 6 monostreams(s).] Now I’m able to load this same 5.1 Wave file directly into Soft Encode and it is able to convert it to a DD5.1 AC3 file. I could convert this 5.1 Wave to 6 mono files using BeSweet, but it would be much better to do all of the job in Wavewizard & its Batch Converter. Is what I’m doing possible using your program, and using Sonic Foundry Softencode as the Output type?
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Old 16th August 2005, 23:38   #62  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcat56458
Hello johnman: Thanks for the great program, I’m using version 0.53. It works well converting a 5.1 Wave file into a DD5.1 AC3 file using the linked to ac3enc.dll, but when I try to do the same using Soft Encode version 1.0 (Build 19) I get the error message [CB error on: “name of 5.1 wave file.wav”. The configuration of conversion batcher requires 6 monostreams(s).] Now I’m able to load this same 5.1 Wave file directly into Soft Encode and it is able to convert it to a DD5.1 AC3 file. I could convert this 5.1 Wave to 6 mono files using BeSweet, but it would be much better to do all of the job in Wavewizard & its Batch Converter. Is what I’m doing possible using your program, and using Sonic Foundry Softencode as the Output type?
Im sorry the error message is not clear enough.

You have to go to options and check stream manipulation + monostreams. Then you get monostreams. If you want to use sonic, you must always convert the files to monostreams (unless it has only 1 channel already) and the same goes for surcode. This should fix it, but if it does not, post a msg again.
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Old 17th August 2005, 09:44   #63  |  Link
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Hi Johnman,

I played a little with ww these days. The possibiltlies are exciting!
I also played with the interface to surcode. One tiny bug always accured see screenshot:



evertime I pressed convert I run into this error, after closing the ConversationBatcher manually and again pressing the convert button everything went fine
As you mentioned in your last posting - I would suggest to add a routine which sets (if necessary for the encoder) the output automatically to mono files.
Next thing which makes me wonder: I did a DTS-WAV but the file ended up with a DTS extention - file itself was correct, only the the extension has to be renamed.
I guess that is because of the source file has the same name 123.WAV (PCM 6 channel) => 123.DTS (DTSWAV) should be a WAV means two times the same file name in one folder - thats not possible!
What do you thing about a ww prefix or something like: 123(DTSWAV-16-44.1).WAV?
Another question - I played around with some CUE sheet tools these days - is it possible to add some functions of them in ww, too? This is a general question, I guess we could collect some ideas what CUE function would be nice to add here on the board later

that´s it folks
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Last edited by daphy; 17th August 2005 at 09:46.
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Old 17th August 2005, 13:42   #64  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphy
Hi Johnman,

I played a little with ww these days. The possibiltlies are exciting!
I also played with the interface to surcode. One tiny bug always accured see screenshot:


evertime I pressed convert I run into this error, after closing the ConversationBatcher manually and again pressing the convert button everything went fine
You dont have to close it, pressing convert again also works. The problem is that ww starts cb and then waits 100 msec to see if it really started. If it didnt, it gives the error. I also noticed 100msec is to short. When windows has to read the file from the disk it often takes more then 100 msec. After starting it once, windows caches it (i think) and then 100msec does work. Ill fix this for the next release.


Quote:
As you mentioned in your last posting - I would suggest to add a routine which sets (if necessary for the encoder) the output automatically to mono files.
I thought about this, but should ww also set the sample rate correct when its wrong, and the sampletype? I dont think it would be a good idea to do to much automaticaly, since the setting for cb might be wrong itself, and not the preferences.


Quote:
Next thing which makes me wonder: I did a DTS-WAV but the file ended up with a DTS extention - file itself was correct, only the the extension has to be renamed.
I guess that is because of the source file has the same name 123.WAV (PCM 6 channel) => 123.DTS (DTSWAV) should be a WAV means two times the same file name in one folder - thats not possible!
What do you thing about a ww prefix or something like: 123(DTSWAV-16-44.1).WAV?
I never thought about this . Cb just adds .dts since it is dts (or dts-wav).
ill change it for the next release. And its not a problem when the file already axcists. It just adds a (1) to the end of the file, just like ww. If everything is correect, ww and cb never overwrites any file.

Quote:
Another question - I played around with some CUE sheet tools these days - is it possible to add some functions of them in ww, too? This is a general question, I guess we could collect some ideas what CUE function would be nice to add here on the board later
that´s it folks
Well i havent ever used it myself, but from what i know about it, its pretty simple. Ill look into this.

Thx for all the suggestions and bug report's daphy. I'll fix them asap.

EDIT: I fixed this stuff, but since i dont regard the mentioned bugs as critical, i wont release a nre ww it immediately.
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Last edited by johnman; 28th August 2005 at 03:08.
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Old 31st August 2005, 03:06   #65  |  Link
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This post is for Jonhman and all users of Command Line Operation of Sonic Foundry Soft Encode (used for WaveWizard).

This mode uses a Parameters.ini to set all options of the encoder (defined in an Appendix on the Soft Encode help).
All parameters with numerical value runs ok, but all parameters On/Off works on the contrary. For instance:

-UseLFE=Off -> insert the LFE channel in the ac3 (like I say in previous post).
-Deemphasis=Off -> use the filter and high frequencies are attenuated.
-DCfilter=On -> don't use the filter DC.
...
-TimeStamp=Off -> use the frame type SMPTE (16 bytes before the normal header). Played ok, but rejected from GraphEdit and DVD Authoring software. (default in WaveWizard).
-NonIntel=On -> make a file with Intel byte order rejected always (frame type Intel). If present TimeStamp=Off, frame type SMPTE override frame Intel.

The only parameter don't tested is BandWidthFilter (I don't know how), all others are verified.

I use v1.0 (build 19) of Sonic Foundry Soft Encode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnman
And i can confirm the bug in sonic surcode. I have to set the option to off to enable it I think i will add an option to cb to invert the flag.
I think the option to invert the flags must be general not only for UseLFE. (Soft Encode, not Surcode).

A final note for Jonhman: when I set -20 in Dialog Normalization (Configuration of Soft Encode) you put DlgNorm=19 in ini file and must be 20.

Last edited by tebasuna51; 31st August 2005 at 03:09.
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Old 31st August 2005, 13:47   #66  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51
This post is for Jonhman and all users of Command Line Operation of Sonic Foundry Soft Encode (used for WaveWizard).

This mode uses a Parameters.ini to set all options of the encoder (defined in an Appendix on the Soft Encode help).
All parameters with numerical value runs ok, but all parameters On/Off works on the contrary. For instance:

-UseLFE=Off -> insert the LFE channel in the ac3 (like I say in previous post).
-Deemphasis=Off -> use the filter and high frequencies are attenuated.
-DCfilter=On -> don't use the filter DC.
...
-TimeStamp=Off -> use the frame type SMPTE (16 bytes before the normal header). Played ok, but rejected from GraphEdit and DVD Authoring software. (default in WaveWizard).
-NonIntel=On -> make a file with Intel byte order rejected always (frame type Intel). If present TimeStamp=Off, frame type SMPTE override frame Intel.

The only parameter don't tested is BandWidthFilter (I don't know how), all others are verified.

I use v1.0 (build 19) of Sonic Foundry Soft Encode.

I think the option to invert the flags must be general not only for UseLFE. (Soft Encode, not Surcode).

A final note for Jonhman: when I set -20 in Dialog Normalization (Configuration of Soft Encode) you put DlgNorm=19 in ini file and must be 20.
Thx for the bugreport. Ill release a new version later today, which will fix these problems.

EDIT: te Dialog Normalization is correct if i interpret the manual correctly :
Quote:
DlgNorm 0 to 31 (-1 dB to -32 dB)
But taken into account all the ON's that should be OFF's and reverse, im not to sure about this either .
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Last edited by johnman; 31st August 2005 at 15:13.
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Old 31st August 2005, 14:25   #67  |  Link
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CUE sheet Support for later versions?

Hey guys,

what do you think is a useful function for CUE support?

some ideas
- for added (drag´n´dropped) single files a CUE sheet should be created (options -> gap between tracks, Albumname, Interpret, ... )
- for added (drag´n´dropped) playlists (m3u f.e.) a CUE sheet should be created including all infos from the playlist + the possible options mentioned above ...

(meanwhile I found some simular functions in the latest foobar2000 0.9b6+ version)

do you think these functions will be senseful?

or are there other/better ideas?
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Old 31st August 2005, 14:27   #68  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphy
Hey guys,

what do you think is a useful function for CUE support?

some ideas
- for added (drag´n´dropped) single files a CUE sheet should be created (options -> gap between tracks, Albumname, Interpret, ... )
- for added (drag´n´dropped) playlists (m3u f.e.) a CUE sheet should be created including all infos from the playlist + the possible options mentioned above ...


do you think these functions will be senseful?

or are there other/better ideas? ::

I sended you a pm about this but you havent answered it

I think its a good idea BTW

If someone else has any ideas about this, dont hesitate to share it with the rest of us
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Old 31st August 2005, 14:35   #69  |  Link
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sorry my fault - I was a little stressed because of business

(but maybe collecting ideas on the board won´t be a bad idea, don´t you think? ) <- obsolete you´ve edited your posting

I played around with CUE Splitter (see needfulthings), it offers a nice GUI for most of it´s functions - I don´t know wether that much function are needed in ww, but some won´t be bad.
As I mentioned at PM there are some further information possible to add inside MP3 (f.e. ALBW) or WAV (Audition) - as basis for a CUE file if possible?
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Old 31st August 2005, 17:12   #70  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daphy
As I mentioned at PM there are some further information possible to add inside MP3 (f.e. ALBW) or WAV (Audition) - as basis for a CUE file if possible?
Im still in doubt about the functionality of cue files, so you can imagine i dont know anything about the "album format". But from wht you described, its a handy feature, so i might add it someday.

Currently i want to implement cue functionality and vst hosting. Yesterday i spended a couple of hours trying to get a GUI from VI.dll, but the only thing i figured out is that the steinberg (= "inventor" of vst) documentation is really bad.

I "fixed" the bugs from tebasuna51. The problem is that the settings are not really reliable. For now i have added a setting to invert uselfe,ephasis,DC filter and timestamp and i disabled the intel byte order, so sonic will use the default byteorder (is this correct tebasuna51?).

But i still think the supports is a little shaky since i dont got much confidence sonic is using the .ini file correct. I have to look into this, and i possibly will
a) remove support for sonic
b) use something more reliable then the .ini file

For now i did what tebasuna51 suggested

I will upload ww v0.54b to needfull things in a minute

EDIT
i also tried to get bitidentical output from sonic in normal mode, and sonic through cb, and somehow i never get the same output. I tried to change different settings, but i never got identical files. This means i cant compare the settings from sonic+ cb with sonic in normal mode which again means, the settings are not 100% reliable.
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Old 31st August 2005, 17:23   #71  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnman
The Dialog Normalization is correct if i interpret the manual correctly :
DlgNorm 0 to 31 (-1 dB to -32 dB)
From a52 doc:
"Valid values are 1–31. The value of 0 is reserved. The values of 1 to 31 are interpreted as -1 dB to -31 dB with respect to digital 100 percent. If the reserved value of 0 is received, the decoder shall use –31 dB. The value of dialnorm shall affect the sound reproduction level."

There are other errors in Soft Encode help:
CodeMode 1 to 8 (1/0 to 3/2)
may be:
CodeMode 0 to 7 (Ch1 + Ch2, 1/0 to 3/2)
From a52 doc:
"If acmod is 0, then two completely independent program channels (dual mono) are encoded into the bit stream, and are referenced as Ch1, Ch2."

And:
MixLevel 0 to 32 must be 0 to 31 (5 bits field, max 31)

The settings not captured in your Configuration window, taken the default values (not the actual settings in Soft Encode):
BSMode=0 (Complete Main)
CopyRight=1 (set)
Original=1 (set)
RoomType=2 (Small Room, flat monitor)
MixLevel=105 (dB SPL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnman
But taken into account all the ON's that should be OFF's and reverse, im not to sure about this either.
I'm sure, after many, many test, but you are free to believe me.
May be others users can test this, and post any confirmation.

Another test using 0/1 instead Off/On don't work, the parameter are ignored and use the default.
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Old 31st August 2005, 17:27   #72  |  Link
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uploaded
John, can plz check the programlist, I think it must be outdated?!?
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Old 31st August 2005, 17:32   #73  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51
From a52 doc:
"Valid values are 1–31. The value of 0 is reserved. The values of 1 to 31 are interpreted as -1 dB to -31 dB with respect to digital 100 percent. If the reserved value of 0 is received, the decoder shall use –31 dB. The value of dialnorm shall affect the sound reproduction level."

There are other errors in Soft Encode help:
CodeMode 1 to 8 (1/0 to 3/2)
may be:
CodeMode 0 to 7 (Ch1 + Ch2, 1/0 to 3/2)
From a52 doc:
"If acmod is 0, then two completely independent program channels (dual mono) are encoded into the bit stream, and are referenced as Ch1, Ch2."

And:
MixLevel 0 to 32 must be 0 to 31 (5 bits field, max 31)

The settings not captured in your Configuration window, taken the default values (not the actual settings in Soft Encode):
BSMode=0 (Complete Main)
CopyRight=1 (set)
Original=1 (set)
RoomType=2 (Small Room, flat monitor)
MixLevel=105 (dB SPL)


I'm sure, after many, many test, but you are free to believe me.
May be others users can test this, and post any confirmation.

Another test using 0/1 instead Off/On don't work, the parameter are ignored and use the default.
I believe you, i dont really need confirmation. The problem is that i used the manual of sonic as a reference (i thought that someone who can make an encoder surely can make a proper manual), and as you mentioned, it has a couple off errors. I know i dont support all settings (like copyright) but i thought i supported the most important ones.
Anyway, im thinking about dont using that .ini file anymore and use something else. I cant seem to verify all the settings reliable , and seeing there are already enough issues with it, im hoping i can use an other method to transport the settings into sonic.


Quote:
uploaded
John, can plz check the programlist, I think it must be outdated?!?
If you mean that thing we talked about earlier (version checking), it slipped my mind .
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Old 31st August 2005, 18:39   #74  |  Link
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Use the left column for SonicAc3.ini and right column for Sonic in normal mode. The files generated are bitidentical (for me).
Code:
[Parameters]         [Soft Encode Settings]
DataRate=448         Data Rate = 448
SampleRate=0         Sample Rate = 48 KHz
CodeMode=7           Audio Coding Mode = 3/2 (L,C,R,l,r)
UseLFE=Off           LFE enable = Checked
                     Bit stream mode = ...Complete Main
DlgNorm=20           Dialog Normalization = -20 dB
NonIntel=Off         Save fr. in Intel byte order = Unchecked
CMix=0               Center Mix level = -3 dB
SurMix=0             Surround Mix level = -3 dB
DolbySurround=0      Dolby Surround mode = Not indicated
                     Copyright bit = Checked
                     Original bit stream = Checked
                     Info exists = Checked
                     Mix levels = 105 dB SPL
                     Room type = Small room, flat monitor
Deemphasis=On        Digital deemphasis = Unchecked
DCFilter=Off         DC high-pass Filter = Checked
BandWidthFilter=Off  BandWidth low-pass Filter = Checked
LFEFilter=Off        LFE low-pass Filter = Checked
Phase90=Off          90 Deegre Phase shift = Checked
Cut3dB=On            3 dB attenuation = Unchecked
CompressionType=0    Compression characteristic = None
RFCmpInUse=On        RF overmodulation protection = Unchecked
TimeStamp=On         Add Time Stamp = Unchecked
Sonic uses the defaults for not supplied parameters, then you need always:
Bit stream mode = ...Complete Main
Copyright bit = Checked
Original bit stream = Checked
Info exists = Checked
Mix levels = 105 dB SPL
Room type = Small room, flat monitor
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Old 31st August 2005, 18:59   #75  |  Link
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Ahhh thanks tebasuna51, i see i made a mistake with a couple of defaults. I unchecked them while they should be checked. I have to say your feedback is very helpfull, and detailed. It really helps me to fix the bugs faster .


Im was/am working on a written tentamination (some really heavy stuff), and doing wavewizard devlopment together . Since that doesnt go to well together (it gave me a little headache ), im now doing only the tentamination. I've got 5 days for it, so until it is finished, i dont have to much time to spare.

When i get some free time again, im going to triple check all settings for surcode to make sure they are ALL correct.

Although everyone still can send bug reports, im afraid i cant fix them immediately.

EDIT
Has anyone checked if the settings in sonic in normal usage (without cb) are correctly applied in the resulting file?
If i would compare the output from sonic + cb with the output from sonic, and the output from sonic itself is incorrect, its still useless.
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Old 31st August 2005, 20:11   #76  |  Link
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Testing Wavewizard 0.54 for Soft Encode
Code:
[Normal]            [Inverting]
UseLFE=On           UseLFE=Off            Ok
DlgNorm=19          DlgNorm=19            I set 20
RFCmpInUse=Off      RFCmpInUse=Off        ?
Deemphasis=Off      Deemphasis=On         Ok
DCFilter=On         DCFilter=Off          Ok
BandWidthFilter=On  BandWidthFilter=On    ?
LFEFilter=On        LFEFilter=On          ?
Phase90=On          Phase90=On            ?
Cut3dB=Off          Cut3dB=Off            ?
TimeStamp=Off       TimeStamp=On          Ok
You believe in me only 40%.
But, always, thanks for your job.

Edit: Before send this post I read your new post, well, you believe in me a little more. But I want the 100%.
You say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnman
Has anyone checked if the settings in sonic in normal usage (without cb) are correctly applied in the resulting file?
If i would compare the output from sonic + cb with the output from sonic, and the output from sonic itself is incorrect, its still useless.
And me:
"The only parameter don't tested is BandWidthFilter (I don't know how), all others are verified."
This include the effects in file output.
Let me more time for this last test (BandWidthFilter) and post later.
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Old 31st August 2005, 20:27   #77  |  Link
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i believe you 100%. If you say its ok... it IS ok.

Im sorry, but i didnt read you post carefully enough. I missed theat part about you verified the other settings. Like i said, got much on my mind, and my tentamination is going kinda slow...

What i would like to know is
a) the bandwith filter
b) you said in an earlier post something about that intel byte order. I didnt fully understand it, and i thought its better to just disable it and use the default setting. But if you can clarify it, i would very much appreciate it .
c) the other settings, are they correct now, or dont you know if they are correct> You got all those '?' next to them.

And thx for the effort in trying to get sonic work reliable
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Old 31st August 2005, 21:58   #78  |  Link
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a)Test for BandWidthFilter
Using a test wav 6 chan 48000 Samples/sec. (24 seconds tone test from 0 Hz to 24 KHz)

Encoded at 448 kbps (Nominal BandWidth = 20.3 KHz)
BandWidthFilter = On -> Progressive cut from 19.4 to 19.8 KHz
BandWidthFilter = Off -> Irregular cut from 20.3 to 20.4 KHz

Encoded at 320 kbps (Nominal BandWidth = 15.8 KHz)
BandWidthFilter = On -> Progressive cut from 15.0 to 15.5 KHz
BandWidthFilter = Off -> Irregular cut from 15.8 to 15.9 KHz

Then the switch work, another question is recommend it.
Before the test I think not see so clearly the differences.

b) Just like other switch you must invert On -> Off
This switch is ignored when you check TimeStamp. In Soft Encode Help:
"Time stamped frames are automatically not stored in Intel byte order."

Soft Encode uses 3 frame types:
-Non-Intel, First byte 0x0B -> run Ok in all soft. Default or with:
Add Time Stamp = Unchecked
Save frame in Intel byte order = Unchecked

-SMPTE, First byte 0x01, byte 17 0x0B (rest of frame like Non-Intel) -> Are played ok (ignoring the first 16 bytes), rejected from GraphEdit and DVD Authoring software. Activated with:
Add Time Stamp = Checked

-Intel, First byte 0x77 -> Only know the proper Soft Encode to open it. Activated with:
Save frame in Intel byte order = Checked
Add Time Stamp = Unchecked

I don't know the use of Time Stamp or Intel byte order.

c) Switches with ? aren't inverted by the switch in cb Configure, then don't work properly.
All switches must be inverted. And the Dialog Norm must be the same value than selected, now is value - 1.

EDIT: (ignoring the first 16 bit) must be (ignoring the first 16 bytes),

Last edited by tebasuna51; 1st September 2005 at 12:11.
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Old 1st September 2005, 04:11   #79  |  Link
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Thx tebasuna, this is some info i can use immediately in ww. The next release will have correct support for sonic softencode thanks to you .
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Old 10th September 2005, 02:17   #80  |  Link
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Im trying to let ww also decode ac3 and dts so anyone can transcode them to any other format in only a single step. Since the code of tranzcode is freely available, im thinking about changing it a little so it can work together with ww, but since this is not the case with azid, im thinking about using the azid.exe from the azid1.9 package. The problem is that i havent used it very much, and i remember from a long time ago the azid.dll is sometimes better then the azid.exe (or was it the other way arround?). Does anybody know if there really is a difference between azid.dll vs azid.exe? Or should i maybe use an other ac3 decoder? Any comment/info is welcome
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