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Old 25th September 2017, 17:31   #45981  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Interesting to hear. So your plasma is at fault here! But it's good to find these things out, so you can optimize the settings accordingly.
I was quite surprised by the result I got. However, the xbox one at RGB FULL showed the exact same problem that I got when I set madvr and gpu to full. Quite depressing as I don't see this issue with 2D playback, hence why I think I want to try a profile and set it to limited only for 3D. Very strange but at least now I know what's going on with it.
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Old 25th September 2017, 17:33   #45982  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
when using D3D11 you will always get hardware decoding if it is a supported format madVR has nothing todo with it.

so the file is maybe incompatible
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
For LAV related questions, please ask in the LAV thread. This doesn't seem to be madVR specific.
I thought so too madshi, just wanted to make sure with someone here first, thanks guys!



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Old 25th September 2017, 17:58   #45983  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, I named the option "send HDR metadata to the display", but it might not be a totally accurate description. The option does multiple things, and how these things are named depends on the API set I'm using (Microsoft vs Nvidia vs AMD). E.g. with Nvidia I'm calling an "HdrColorControl" API to set the "HDR mode". Ideally, doing all this should only result in the "PQ" flag being sent to the display together with the SMPTE 2086 metadata. But it's a black box. The Nvidia driver may decide to change something else, too, when I call that API, like changing the color format from RGB to YCbCr or things like that. The API is not called "SetMetadata", but more something like "SetHdrMode".
As promised, I've done more tests and here is the temporary result:

1) I wanted to find a way to rule out the HDR metadata, so I used the Vertex to capture the full metadata sent by the GPU when the OS is set to enable HDR (here it is FYI, with the header: 87:01:1a:b0:02:00:c2:33:c4:86:4c:1d:b8:0b:d0:84:80:3e:13:3d:42:40:a0:0f:32:00:e8:03:90:01). I then set the OS back to HDR off.

2) I placed an Integral between the AVR and the Vertex and I used the Integral to inject the exact same HDR infoframe (the OS was still set to SDR). I was able to switch the display to HDR without any magenta issue in 4K60p RGB 8bits.

So as expected, this is NOT a metadata issue or a bandwidth. It's something else done by the GPU.

I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.

I'll keep you posted when I have some news, but I thought this interim report might be useful, in case it helps you to figure out what the nVidia API is doing wrong when you call it.

This is purely intended to provide you some feedback, I've followed your suggestion and am using profiles to disable metadata when fps is above 30, so from a user point of view I'm sorted for now.
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:40   #45984  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
I discussed this with HD Fury and they have identified the issue as being caused by the AVI Infoframe. They are working on it.
Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!
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Old 25th September 2017, 18:42   #45985  |  Link
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Oh, so they can reproduce it?? Do they have a JVC to test with? Or does it also occur with other displays? That's very interesting!
I don't have any details yet, I'll let you know when I do, but I don't think they have a JVC.
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Old 25th September 2017, 21:36   #45986  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm struggling to have a good idea of what the problem could be. If toggling the "send HDR metadata" switch results in a visible change in "passthrough HDR content to the display" mode, then obviously madVR is able to successfully switch your TV into HDR mode. In "passthrough" mode madVR simply outputs all pixels more or less untouched, so there's not so much that could go wrong on madVR's side.
I figure it out. Nothing to do with madvr. Sorry. I had to change a few settings from my Samsung TV. It has an option for 'Colour space', and it was set to 'auto'. I changed it to 'Native' and voila, colours now look right. Funny enough if I go back to 'auto' they also look good now.
I also had to change the 'hdmi black level' setting -which is an option for 16-235 or 0-255- from full to limited. Or else I would get washed out blacks. Now it looks great. Thanks for your time.
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Old 25th September 2017, 22:30   #45987  |  Link
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I use a 1920*1080 full hd monitor, and mpc-be. Zoom settings in madvr are configured to move subs to the bottom.

I tried with ISR, VSFilter and XySubFilter but subs are not showed in the black bars, but on top of video. How can i solve?

As i can see (using xysubfilter), the subs are on top of video for a portion of time, then go in black bars, then returns on the video area... don't know why...
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Old 25th September 2017, 23:03   #45988  |  Link
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The Nvidia settings look alright to me. One thing to double check, though: For "Content type reported to the display" you have selected "Movies". Have you tried other settings there? This setting *could* have an effect, depending on whether your TV reacts to this or not.

Looking at your TV settings screenshots, the most important setting is probably "HDMI RGB Range", which you currently have set to "AUTO". Have you tried different settings there?

The "HDMI Content Type" settings in your TV also look like they could be related. Does changing that stuff do anything to your black and white levels?
Content type reported to the display does nothing when I change it because HDMI Content Type is disabled on the TV. Therefore, the TV ignores such signals from the PC. I do not really need it since I can force the best HDMI Content Type for movies from the TV instead of waiting for NVIDIA's CP signal. Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image. Graphics and Photo modes have a less dynamic image, showing less vibrant and not so rich colours (as if the gamut range is crippled) and although the TV's main menu settings seem unchanged, brightness and gamma seems lower as well. Cinema is a weird mode that is disabled from factory defaults (so it won't activate on its own) and can be forced on, but it seems a bit washed out and dark, brightness and gamma are too low and it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap. Game is a mode I cannot force on but it should be able to activate automatically - I do not know under which circumstances it activates and what it does but I am pretty sure it will not do any good for movies with madVR. Lastly, NVIDIA's CP "Auto" Content type will always sent a "Graphics" signal when madVR is playing and the TV will treat it as such if I have everything turned on. If I force the content type from NVIDIA's CP to "Movies" the TV will treat it as "Off" (no mode) by default unless I have Cinema mode on, which is not a factory setting.

The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255. This is an inconsistency which I never really noticed since I always used "Auto", until recently that I started fiddling with NVIDIA's CP output and madVR's settings. The TV's "Normal" (0-255) will force a 3rd black crushing level when activated which is slightly more unnatural than the black crushing NVIDIA's CP / madVR does when set to their equivalent "0-255" - as if there is a loss in quality. Auto seems to almost always use "Full" (16-235) or Limited for everything else, and this is what it defaults to when receiving signal directly from the blu-ray disc or any signal in general, in all my tests it never switched to its 0-255 levels. This mode does nothing when YCbCr signal is sent.
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Old 26th September 2017, 00:29   #45989  |  Link
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Hi guys. I noticed that in recent madvr versions image upscaling and doubling are now on the same page, most guides i checked was on older versions, so i am wondering which option should i choose.
I have a GTX 1070 and was using dxva2 on most options, very low render time but i read that i was losing some image quality. So which settings are considered the best to use on a good gpu?
Also if i have a good gpu, is there a reason to not use dxva2 on image downscaling? Isn't downscaling only used when the window is not on fullscreen?
Edit: I use a 1080p display.
I also notice how little resources dxva2 uses. I put every possible setting on dxva2 and only chroma upscaling on nnedi 128 neurons gives me 0,3ms render time, gpu is almost at idle.
I already tried some settings but it seems that it doesn't make much difference.
I tried one that uses NGU and other settings enabled that put my 1070 to really work hard but not really sure if I saw any difference.
I tried with 720p and 1080p sources, all with high bitrates.

Last edited by leandronb; 26th September 2017 at 02:15.
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Old 26th September 2017, 02:04   #45990  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
Now, changing the HDMI Content Type to anything but "Graphics" and "Photos" gives an unnatural image.
If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.

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it forces warm colours, looks similar to the so called "THX Cinema" mode, which is complete crap.
Whaaat?
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! )

Quote:
The HDMI RGB Range has 3 settings: Auto, Full, Normal. For some reason the TV means "Full" = 16-235 and "Normal" = 0-255.
No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?

I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. So if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.
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Last edited by el Filou; 26th September 2017 at 02:30. Reason: Erroneously said that Normal mode used dynamic contrast too; it doesn't
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Old 26th September 2017, 02:32   #45991  |  Link
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If you want a neutral image (i.e. no sharpening), set "HDMI Content type" to "Off", and then "Sharpness" to 0.
If you want more 'pop' I think it'd better to sharpen with madVR (because it can be adapted to the content being played using profiles) rather than with the TV's Content/Sharpness settings.
I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother, like for example DOOM's (2016) sharpness slider has 0 at 1/4 or some TVs that have for example 30 as 0 and anything below it increases smoothness. Are you sure 0 is recommended for Panasonics? I know there is a general sense that it should always be 0 but that is not the case for all TVs and systems since some have their "0" at a higher number other than 0.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Whaaat?
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! )
Haha sorry but for me it is and pretty much everyone I tested various modes with agree that this one looks the worst. I highly doubt this mode is accurate, everything looks yellowish, worn out, and muddy. Sames goes for THX Cinema Bright Room. Maybe it's the model, but it has always been like this.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
No, Full always means PC which is 0-255 and Normal means Video which is 16-235. If it's the other way around there's a bug somewhere. Did you try to update your TV's firmware?
Yes absolutely the TV's firmware is updated, but the RGB settings are the other way around - I thought it was normal considering another model I configured in the past had "Normal" and "Limited", Normal meaning Full and Limited meaning Limited. I thought that my TV has its own kink like that one.

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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
I think I know what's wrong here: as can be seen on the first screenshot of your TV settings, it's on Dynamic mode. That mode uses non-defeatable dynamic contrast which means you can never have any consistency in brightness levels as the TV will always try to artificially boost contrast by crushing blacks and/or clipping whites. Normal mode uses it too (although a bit less agressively), so if you want consistent levels you need to use another mode than Dynamic or Normal, sorry. If you absolutely want Dynamic or Normal then you can forget about any accurate brightness levels setup.
Your best chance is to manually copy all the settings values from Dynamic mode to the Custom one. This should give you a picture closest to it but without the dynamic contrast that messes up the brightness levels.
I already tried all possible modes, it was the first thing I tried. You are right, Dynamic mode enhances the problem but there is a stark difference between having Limited and Full and crushed Full levels on the TV. If I use a blu-ray system to play a disc there are no such issues, Limited appears as it should. I have issues only with the PC.
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Old 26th September 2017, 02:47   #45992  |  Link
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Whaaat?
(sorry but that's rare to see a Panasonic plasma owner say the THX mode looks like complete crap, it's the most accurate factory mode! )
I would tend to agree. My custom settings aren't TOO far off the THX settings for my Panny plasma. It's definitely all subjective but I would venture something's not configured right somewhere if it's that far off.
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Old 26th September 2017, 06:33   #45993  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother..
No TV makes things "unnaturally smoother" so set it to 0. The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market. Only use the built in sharpening for broadcast content.

Annd I'm wrong.

Last edited by ryrynz; 26th September 2017 at 23:03. Reason: Why tho.. >.<
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Old 26th September 2017, 06:50   #45994  |  Link
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Haha sorry but for me it is and pretty much everyone I tested various modes with agree that this one looks the worst. I highly doubt this mode is accurate, everything looks yellowish, worn out, and muddy. Sames goes for THX Cinema Bright Room. Maybe it's the model, but it has always been like this.
No, that is completely normal. The other modes are "looks good at first glance on a show floor" but the THX modes are the most accurate. Use one for a day and the yellowish muddy look goes away (human perception of white point is adaptive) and you get the video similar to how it looked on the mastering monitor.

It is fine if you want to keep using the other modes but do understand that they are much more inaccurate and have very blue white points (>8000K) when the standard is 6500K. This is why it looks yellowish to you, your perception of white adapts to blue=white so white=yellow to you until your perception of white adapts again.
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Old 26th September 2017, 08:50   #45995  |  Link
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The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market.
Its interesting talking about sharpening...
Ive always used a little sharpening as I find I need some with BDs and DVDs upscaled to 4K on a 145" dia, scope screen.
Enhance detail is what Ive been using for sometime.
However Ive been recently experimenting with adaptive sharpening after reading the definitions, as I wasnt too happy when I saw that enhance detail also sharpens artefacts.
A very tiny amount of Adaptive sharpening with NGU AA Very High, looks spectacular on my large screen with the JVC X9500.

Below are the definitions:
Enhance detail: [1.0] Sharpens textures like skin or cloth, also sharpens artifacts.
AdaptiveSharpen: [0.5] Tries to sharpen medium sharp edges the most, it avoids sharpening near flat areas and very sharp edges

Do any others use Adaptive Sharpen, or what are your thoughts?
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Old 26th September 2017, 09:13   #45996  |  Link
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I'm using Luma Sharpen on 1080p screen, I tried Enhance detail but dont like it because it sharpens skin.
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Old 26th September 2017, 10:54   #45997  |  Link
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I wasnt too happy when I saw that enhance detail also sharpens artefacts.

Do any others use Adaptive Sharpen, or what are your thoughts?
Well you have to have visible artifacts to begin with, sometimes light values on one or two sharpeners is a useful and broad enough stroke to be beneficial to most content, evaluate it based on what you see not what the descriptions tell you.

I'm a big fan of Adaptive Sharpen, use 0.5-1.0 on pretty much everything.
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Old 26th September 2017, 12:00   #45998  |  Link
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No TV makes things "unnaturally smoother" so set it to 0. The sharpening madVR does is better than just about anything else on the market. Only use the built in sharpening for broadcast content.
well bad news on sony screens 50% is usually neutral and yes if you go lower it will unsharp.
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Old 26th September 2017, 12:42   #45999  |  Link
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Is HLG support in the backlog ? Thank you
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Old 26th September 2017, 13:53   #46000  |  Link
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No, that is completely normal. The other modes are "looks good at first glance on a show floor" but the THX modes are the most accurate. Use one for a day and the yellowish muddy look goes away (human perception of white point is adaptive) and you get the video similar to how it looked on the mastering monitor.

It is fine if you want to keep using the other modes but do understand that they are much more inaccurate and have very blue white points (>8000K) when the standard is 6500K. This is why it looks yellowish to you, your perception of white adapts to blue=white so white=yellow to you until your perception of white adapts again.
But I do not use the "Cool" mode or >8000K settings despite what you see in the photos which are settings I have temporarily set for testing purposes - which I suppose is why you made this assumption. I just do not use THX modes, they really look ridiculous in comparison to other TVs, monitors, and a movie theatre itself. They default to Warm colours, which are by definition yellowish in this case. I never 'got used' to them like in my PC monitor for example where I tested its "Cool" mode for a couple of weeks and switched back to the calibrated RGB values (close to Warm). This took some getting used to but for a couple of hours.

On the TV they always look yellowish to me (and pretty much everyone else), and you never get used to it - maybe it is the model, but THX modes definitely do not look right under any circumstance, it seems as if RGB and whites are not properly calibrated, using "Normal" mode with less brightness and "Warm" colours looks very similar to THX modes, this does not seem right to me, even the colours look washed out in certain situations in comparison to plain old "Normal" mode.

When we first bought the 2x 4k Samsungs we cross-referenced with the plasma and another 1080p LG for comparison. They lacked the THX modes (or we did not find them) and they looked absolutely fine on their Normal or Movie/Cinema modes. If I remember correctly, one of the Samsung's also defaults to "Warm" on its Cinema mode, but it is a calibrated Warm, not the same as switching to Warm on Normal mode which is what the THX mode looks like on the plasma. Now, I know the dynamic mode with "Normal" colour settings is far from correct, but its image is closer to the other TVs and the movies look closer to what we saw in the cinema - something far from true when we run Panasonic's THX modes.
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