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Old 4th October 2007, 15:58   #1021  |  Link
menlvd
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epp me to reencoding thd longer that reencoding eac3
thd from HD-DvD
eac3to.exe ver 1.22.0.0

Last edited by menlvd; 4th October 2007 at 17:54.
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Old 4th October 2007, 17:49   #1022  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSof View Post
I'm using it on the demuxed thd.T he flac has about 10 mins extra runtime. The FLAC does not stay in sync, it will keep droping out and then coming back. Its very difficult to tell how far out of sync it is at the end but about 10 mins seems right. With 1.17 it is fine, albeit with the dial norm and thus 24bit.

Is anyone having success with titles such as Superman Returns and V for Vendetta?
Can you please retry with v1.22? If the problem still exists in that version, I'll do some more checks.
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Old 4th October 2007, 18:26   #1023  |  Link
superx
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k thanks, where on the website can I get the hddvd/blu-ray plugin, they changed it around.
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Old 4th October 2007, 22:45   #1024  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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Another problem: I tried to convert the 5.1 TrueHD 24-bit track of letters from iwo jima to FLAC (using eac3to v1.22; that track was the 2nd track on the disc btw, not the 1st). the thd track size is 1,32GB, the final FLAC has 3.2GB of size. movie length is 2h 20min. the strange thing is now that the flac file has a length of 3h 30min!
when playing this together with the .mkv movie, the fps of 23.976 are kept, but the sound is horribly slowed down (and of course, theres also no picture beyond the 2h 20 min mark). how can this be possible? is it possible that demuxed sources (and the remux to temp .evo) give some trouble because some information about playback, speed for example, can get lost? maybe it would help if you enable .evo input as source again, so we could test and compare this.

just converted the 2nd track on the disc, DD+ 5.1, to ac3 just to compare and in this case the original length was kept at 2h 20 mins (no muxing to temp .evo took place).
converted the DD+ 5.1 to flac, again to compare, length was 2h 20min (again no temp evo muxing took place).
(there was a length difference between the converted ac3 and flac track, both from the dd+ 5.1 source btw., the ac3 track is 32ms longer. how can this be possible with the same source file?)

on the other hand, that other DD+ 2.0 commentary track from another movie I converted to flac, there also didnt take place any temp evo muxing, length is fine, but still it speeds up the .mkv movie.



p.s. when rebuilding the video .evo, powerdvd wasnt able to jump into the 2nd half of the rebuilt evo, from whereon the 2nd evo begins. the time would still continue, but no picture is shown. after remuxing to .mkv with gdsmux & mkvmerge this was possible though with ffdshow, I guess this is normal for powerdvd and files up to a certain size?

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 4th October 2007 at 23:27.
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Old 4th October 2007, 23:29   #1025  |  Link
madshi
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eac3to v1.23 released

http://madshi.net/eac3to.zip

Code:
* bugfix: sometimes TrueHD decoding resulted in incorrect sampling rate
The above bug could result in e.g. FLAC files with 44,1khz instead of the correct 48khz. This results in lower than correct pitch and longer runtime. This is most probably what TheSof experienced and now also Thunderbolt8. Should be fixed now.
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Old 4th October 2007, 23:30   #1026  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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lol thanks!
testing now, results in mb ~25 mins :P

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 4th October 2007 at 23:46.
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Old 4th October 2007, 23:40   #1027  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Keymaker View Post
From what I can determine, -down6 and +/-100ms are the only options my GUI does NOT currently support. I will try and update EAC3toGUI with the new parameters this weekend.

Before I can update the program, I need someone to explain to me how to implement the +/-100ms command line parameter, i.e., is it +100 for advance and -100 for delay? and can it be any number from 0 to 100ms or is it fixed at 100ms?
Thanks. The delays theoretically support any value betwee "-infinite ms" and "+infinite ms". E.g. "-17ms" is possible, or "+53862ms". I think you need to add an edit box. The delay works similar to how "delaycut" works or how you can specify a delay in MPC. So e.g. "+100ms" delays the audio track by 100ms (basically 100ms of silence is added at the beginning of the audio track). And e.g. "-200ms" cuts 200ms worth of audio data in the beginning of the audio track.
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Old 4th October 2007, 23:46   #1028  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
I tried to convert the 5.1 TrueHD 24-bit track of letters from iwo jima to FLAC (using eac3to v1.22; that track was the 2nd track on the disc btw, not the 1st). the thd track size is 1,32GB, the final FLAC has 3.2GB of size.
The TrueHD track is unlikely to be 24bit, if it's only 1,32GB. I think it's probably 16bit. The FLAC shouldn't be bigger than the TrueHD track. Usually FLAC files are a little bit smaller than the original TrueHD track. I can only guess that either the dialnorm removal didn't work properly, or the bug I just fixed in v1.23 messed up more than just the sampling rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8
p.s. when rebuilding the video .evo, powerdvd wasnt able to jump into the 2nd half of the rebuilt evo, from whereon the 2nd evo begins. the time would still continue, but no picture is shown. after remuxing to .mkv with gdsmux & mkvmerge this was possible though with ffdshow, I guess this is normal for powerdvd and files up to a certain size?
I don't think it depends on the size. I don't have any experience with how PowerDVD handles such files, but sometimes seeking doesn't work if the timecodes are not correct. You could try using OffsetPTS before joining the EVO files. If there's nothing to fix, OffsetPTS will simply do nothing but report that everything is fine. This is the case for most HD DVDs. However, sometimes the timecodes of the 2nd EVO are strange. This happens especially with HD DVDs from independent European studios. In that case OffsetPTS will correct the timecodes of the 2nd EVO file. This might make seeking possible in PowerDVD.
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Old 4th October 2007, 23:47   #1029  |  Link
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did use offsetpts before any rebuilding & demuxing of course, but it reported everything to be fine. the only case it was needed for me was indeed so far mulholland drive from studio canal.

oh, now I see it, that truehd 5.1 flac created with v1.22 only had 32Khz :P

edit: ok tested it now with 1.23 and length is fine! thanks! guess only that commentary track video speedup remains for me atm :P

btw. it also seems like the delay it that tiny bit better with +30 ms, the +30 ms the ac3 track was longer than the flac track. how does it come delay modification is apparently needed only for flac tracks?

btw. dont know if that helps, but that normalization removal thing for all the tracks (trueHD and DD+) I recently converted always said -27db. no other value than this one. same for the bitrate for all the trueHD and dd+ tracks, always got the info that the current track contains more than 16-bit of information -> 24-bit. so far all the flac tracks I made, not only from trueHD, but also from DD+ were quite bigger than the original track sizes, so that normalization removal problem might be a more general one and not only restricted to the truehd tracks

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 5th October 2007 at 02:02.
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Old 5th October 2007, 03:50   #1030  |  Link
superx
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ok reinstalled my older version of Nero, I can't purchase Blu-ray/hd-dvd plugin, it keeps taking me to the product page of nero 8.

when I reinstalled nero 7 this is what I got.

E-AC3, 5.1 channels, 1:00:13, 640kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
Remove Dialog Normalization information. Please wait...
Decoding eac3 file to raw. Please wait...
Disabling DRC for Nero E-AC3 decoding...
The file size of the raw file doesn't seem to fit.
The expected file size for 16 bit is 1.93 GB.
The expected file size for 24 bit is 2.90 GB.
The real file size is 0 Bytes.
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Old 5th October 2007, 07:26   #1031  |  Link
Beastie Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superx View Post
k thanks, where on the website can I get the hddvd/blu-ray plugin, they changed it around.
Here

Cheers, Beastie.
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Old 5th October 2007, 08:31   #1032  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
how does it come delay modification is apparently needed only for flac tracks?
I don't know. But it is also needed for E-AC3 tracks sometimes (as I've already told you at least 10 times). It is probably also needed for DTS-HD tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
btw. dont know if that helps, but that normalization removal thing for all the tracks (trueHD and DD+) I recently converted always said -27db. no other value than this one.
Yeah, -27db is the default value. The studios should in theory adjust this value, but in practical life they rarely do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
same for the bitrate for all the trueHD and dd+ tracks, always got the info that the current track contains more than 16-bit of information -> 24-bit. so far all the flac tracks I made, not only from trueHD, but also from DD+ were quite bigger than the original track sizes, so that normalization removal problem might be a more general one and not only restricted to the truehd tracks
It is no surprise that DD+ tracks contain more than 16bit. There was never any doubt about that. It's also no surprise that DD+ 24bit FLAC files are MUCH bigger than the original DD+ track. It was very clear that this would happen.

However, it is not "right" that your FLAC tracks are bigger than the TrueHD tracks. There's definitely something wrong there! Since I added dialnorm removal for TrueHD tracks, I've never seen FLAC files getting bigger than the original TrueHD file on my PC yet!

What do the other eac3to users say? Are your FLAC files also sometimes (or often) bigger than the original TrueHD files?
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Old 5th October 2007, 08:32   #1033  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superx View Post
ok reinstalled my older version of Nero, I can't purchase Blu-ray/hd-dvd plugin, it keeps taking me to the product page of nero 8.

when I reinstalled nero 7 this is what I got.

E-AC3, 5.1 channels, 1:00:13, 640kbit/s, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
Remove Dialog Normalization information. Please wait...
Decoding eac3 file to raw. Please wait...
Disabling DRC for Nero E-AC3 decoding...
The file size of the raw file doesn't seem to fit.
The expected file size for 16 bit is 1.93 GB.
The expected file size for 24 bit is 2.90 GB.
The real file size is 0 Bytes.
This won't work without the plugin.
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Old 5th October 2007, 08:50   #1034  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
(there was a length difference between the converted ac3 and flac track, both from the dd+ 5.1 source btw., the ac3 track is 32ms longer. how can this be possible with the same source file?)
Each ac3 frame (48 KHz) is 32 ms long, then an ac3 duration is always a multiple of 32 ms.

All ac3 encoders put a 5.33 ms. delay (256 samples at 48 KHz) with silence to preserve the initial value of uncompressed audio. This delay (only 5.33 sec) can force a new frame, at the end, 32 ms. long, the rest is filled with silence.

Using Aften parameter -pad 0 the delay disappear, but the first 5.33 ms. is not the same than uncompressed value.
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Old 5th October 2007, 08:53   #1035  |  Link
Thunderbolt8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
What do the other eac3to users say? Are your FLAC files also sometimes (or often) bigger than the original TrueHD files?
maybe its just me and I make a mistake somewhere. but not sure in how far thats possible with eac3to's commandline any more.
what im doing is (for audio decoding)
1. checking both .evo files with offsetpts
2. unchecking all other audio/video/subtitle than the audio track(s) I want to use for my remuxes (evodemux).
3. giving them the correct endings (.thd for truehd tracks, .eac3 for dd+ tracks)
4. use them with eac3to with "eac3to source.thd/source.eac3 dest.flac"
(5. put them in .mka afterwards, but this doesnt matter for the flac filesize).

thats it basically. unless there some mistake in what im doing or all this occurs only because we have only used different movies so far, which apparently seem to have differences with their truehd tracks, there seems to be a difference in what we are doing or maybe also somehow with our eac3to versions (or maybe nero/sonic filters? is there any way how I can check if the correct filters are installed?)

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 5th October 2007 at 09:07.
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Old 5th October 2007, 08:56   #1036  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Each ac3 frame (48 KHz) is 32 ms long, then an ac3 duration is always a multiple of 32 ms.

All ac3 encoders put a 5.33 ms. delay (256 samples at 48 KHz) with silence to preserve the initial value of uncompressed audio. This delay (only 5.33 sec) can force a new frame, at the end, 32 ms. long, the rest is filled with silence.

Using Aften parameter -pad 0 the delay disappear, but the first 5.33 ms. is not the same than uncompressed value.
im not quite sure whether I understood this correctly, are you saying that converted eac3 -> ac3 track is now 32 or 5.33ms too long (which value is right)?
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Old 5th October 2007, 09:15   #1037  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Each ac3 frame (48 KHz) is 32 ms long, then an ac3 duration is always a multiple of 32 ms.

All ac3 encoders put a 5.33 ms. delay (256 samples at 48 KHz) with silence to preserve the initial value of uncompressed audio. This delay (only 5.33 sec) can force a new frame, at the end, 32 ms. long, the rest is filled with silence.

Using Aften parameter -pad 0 the delay disappear, but the first 5.33 ms. is not the same than uncompressed value.
Thanks, that's interesting!
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Old 5th October 2007, 09:17   #1038  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
maybe its just me and I make a mistake somewhere. but not sure in how far thats possible with eac3to's commandline any more.
what im doing is (for audio decoding)
1. checking both .evo files with offsetpts
2. unchecking all other audio/video/subtitle than the audio track(s) I want to use for my remuxes (evodemux).
3. giving them the correct endings (.thd for truehd tracks, .eac3 for dd+ tracks)
4. use them with eac3to with "eac3to source.thd/source.eac3 dest.flac"
Are you rebuilding the audio files or demuxing them?

Can you send me a 10MB sample of a TrueHD file where the FLAC file ends up being larger than the TrueHD file? Before you send me that sample, please run the sample through eac3to and check if it reports that the audio data contains more than 16bit of information. Sending me the sample makes sense only if eac3to reports that. Thanks!

P.S: You could also name the movies you've tried so far. Maybe I own one of them, too.
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Old 5th October 2007, 09:22   #1039  |  Link
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im just demuxing them (from the 2 original .evo files), as .evo as input doesnt work any more (of course, I could first rebuilt a big audio file only, load it into evodemux and demux from there then, but this takes more time of course. could try it though, if you think its worth testing and comparing). edit: did it, both files, the direclty demuxed one and the rebuilt evo -> demuxed from there one both have the same big file size.

im not really familiar with that cutting stuff, how can I cut samples from trueHD/flac/other audio tracks? does it work that easily that I could just stop the demuxing process after 10mb or would this sample then be invalid somehow?

movies ive tried so far (all hddvd):

fear and loathing in las vegas (truehd)
out of sight (dd+)
eternal sunshine of the spotless mind (dd+)
letters from iwo jima (truehd)

Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 5th October 2007 at 10:58.
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Old 5th October 2007, 11:04   #1040  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
im not really familiar with that cutting stuff, how can I cut samples from trueHD/flac/other audio tracks? does it work that easily that I could just stop the demuxing process after 10mb
Yes, just stop demuxing after the audio file is 10MB big. Or else use a hexeditor to cut the file off after 10MB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
fear and loathing in las vegas (truehd)
out of sight (dd+)
eternal sunshine of the spotless mind (dd+)
letters from iwo jima (truehd)
The dd+ files are irrelevant. They're always 24bit. Only the TrueHD tracks are interesting. Fear and Loathing is really 24bit, I believe. The TrueHD track should be very big. Iwo Jima should be 16bit. So a sample of Iwo Jima might help, if the problem is reproducable.
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