PgcEdit v7 discussion thread

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by sendithere

I was trying to send you email, but got no reply.

I have replied to your mail!
Anyway, here is what I wrote:

Hi!

It's not a bug, but only a limitation.

I have changed several things in the Domain Streams Attributes function since v7. Notably, there are now new checkboxes in the GUI to delete a whole stream (and to fix the references in the PGC tables.) This addition is incompatible with the GUI called from the PGC Editor.
Anyway, the Domain Streams Attributes tables are global to the whole domain (hence the name) , and are not directly related to a specific PGC. Having a button in the PGC Editor is therefore a nonsense. It is there only for the user convenience, because it is sometimes necessary to verify the language codes before modifying the streams assignments of the PGC. Since v7, the GUI is read only, to avoid many conflicts and discrepancies.

To access the original, editable GUI, you have to close the PGC Editor (and accept or cancel your changes), be sure to select a PGC of the right domain, and then call Domain -> Domain Stream Attributes (or call the right-click popup menu of the PGC.)

[sendithere]

Thanks everyone - I was away and could not thank you a bit early It does not matter to me where is it - as long as I know where to find it Thanks a lot for such a great program and once more for the help!

[President]

2 r0lZ.

A timemap plugin is do nothing (or I don't understand it). I have a DVD (it is a second with the same bug), which has a wrong timemap. Really playtime of DVD (main movie) is 1:57:16. Timemap has a 1:57:09 value. I run a plugin, agree with reconstruct and save DVD. PGC Edit recalculating a timemap, saving DVD, but a playtime still the same 1:57:09. IFO's here:
http://rapidshare.de/files/25431206/Lara2.zip.html

Please, help.

Edited:
Maybe it helps you. Both DVD are DL (DVD-9). In this DVD a LB was at 22 cell.

[r0lZ]

The timemap plugin rebuilds the time map tables (VTS_TMAPTI), not the cells and PGC playing time.
But you're right. Since, during the process, the playback times of each cell and of the whole PGC are known, the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.

[Sir Didymus]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

...Since, during the process, the playback times of each cell and of the whole PGC are known, the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.

Hi r0lZ!

This would be very useful (and appreciated)!

I noticed as a systematic behaviour of arcoss protected titles that the playback time of many cells in the PGC are slightly screwed up. I have many examples of this...

Correcting the cells (and the PGC) playback time, based on the actual content of the cells would be very helpful, in order to allow Ifoedit, PgcDemux, and other application to properly recover the chapter times of the PGC.

It would be also useful (maybe...) to manually turn on and off the building of the TMAP table: at the moment if one need to add 5 void cells at the end of a PGC, the table is re built every time...

Maybe a solution (I second this) was the one suggested by Blutach, of allowing the addition of more than a single cell per time in the PGC...

All the best,
SD

[President]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

The timemap plugin rebuilds the time map tables (VTS_TMAPTI), not the cells and PGC playing time.

Hmm, then such question: what are timemap functions? If a cells and PGC time are wrong, then next/previous chapter entry points are wrong too. I forced to correct manually that points at previous DVD (a chapter buttons has links to wrong episodes in movie) by full remux and change a chapter frames in celltime list.

Originally Posted by r0lZ

...the function should also fix the wrong playback times in the IFOs. Maybe I'll add that in the next version.

Thank's again! As always:-). You are the best "technical support" was I knew:-). All questions at 5 minutes. Thank's.

[bigotti5]

Really playtime of DVD (main movie) is 1:57:16. Timemap has a 1:57:09 value.

I am not really familiar with NTSC (living in a PAL country) but IMO this is caused by drop/non-drop timecode.
DVD uses non-drop for all timecodes and elapsed times.
1.57 playback time results in ~7 seconds drop/non-drop timecode difference...

[President]

Originally Posted by bigotti5

I am not really familiar with NTSC (living in a PAL country) but IMO this is caused by drop/non-drop timecode.
DVD uses non-drop for all timecodes and elapsed times.
1.57 playback time results in ~7 seconds drop/non-drop timecode difference...

What is a drop or non-drop timecode?

[bigotti5]

http://teched.vt.edu/gcc/Html/Virtua...reTimecode.pdf

[President]

Originally Posted by bigotti5

http://teched.vt.edu/gcc/Html/Virtua...reTimecode.pdf

Many thank's!

[President]

2 bigotti5

I don't think, what it's a reason of that difference. In previous (PAL) DVD a difference was:
1. First layer of DVD-9 is Ok (up to 0:59:00).
2. Second layer has wrong cells&PGC time at constant value approx 4 minutes. Timemap rebuilt was no effect.

Maybe wrong authoring. Maybe incorrect LB. I don't know. I remuxed it and corrected a start frame number of each cell in layer two. It's solved a problem.

[Sir Didymus]

Here is an example of the screwed cell elapsed times:

Celltimes from the original ifo file, directly picked from the disc:

0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
2
3
4
5
32
34
60
61
62
63
76
8748
15156
20642
24865
33132
38565
48417
58335
68265
73425
84357
91297
94845
101423
102931
110665
116060
124613
129082
138051
146135
155247
165034
175250
179332
179355
179367
179379
179405

after the removal of the "crap" cells - the first 21 and the last three - the resulting cell elapsed time is (the same as before, but with 76 subtracted from the cell positions):

8672
15080
20566
24789
33056
38489
48341
58259
68189
73349
84281
91221
94769
101347
102855
110589
115984
124537
129006
137975
146059
155171
164958
175174
179256

By demuxing the single cells and counting their effective elapsed time, here is what comes out. In color the cells with the newly corrected chapter position, which is inconsistent respect to the original (wrong) ifo:

8671
15080
20566
24791
33059
38493
48347
58266
68198
73359
84292
91234
94783
101361
102869
110604
115999
124553
129025
137995
146081
155194
164983
175201
179283

Same results may be obtained with most of the arcoss titles all around...

Without the manual correction of the Celltimes.txt, the usage of this file in reauthoring applications leads to inaccurate chapter positions...

[bigotti5]

@President

My post was refering to Lara2. It is NTSC.

To your PAL DVD

Timemap rebuilt was no effect

Rebuild the timemap table does not alter the cell times in PGC.
This table is only used for time search, sliderplay in software players..
In your case you have IMO to rebuild the PGC (VTS_PGCITI) such as Ifoedit's "Create Ifos" function. Probably they are wrong in the VOB too, so rebuild the PGC will not work.

[President]

Originally Posted by bigotti5

@President
My post was refering to Lara2. It is NTSC.

Yes, I understood. But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?

Originally Posted by bigotti5

This table is only used for time search, sliderplay in software players..

Thank's for the information. I supposed just so.

Originally Posted by bigotti5

In your case you have IMO to rebuild the PGC (VTS_PGCITI) such as Ifoedit's "Create Ifos" function. Probably they are wrong in the VOB too, so rebuild the PGC will not work.

It looks as VOB's error. A very interesting error. If I jumps by chapters (or menu buttons) then chapter menu pictures and movie scenes are the same on whole DVD (e.g. chapter 13 starts from correct scene and has start time 1 hour 03 minutes). But if I see the movie from previous chapter 12 (a last chapter on layer 0), then the same start scene of the chapter 13 has a 0 hour 59 minutes start time and chapter counter increased correctly to 13. But chapter 12 has correct start time and scene in any case. After full remux this time hole was corrected, but a chapter start points was shifted on this 4 minutes and links goes to wrong scenes. I find this scenes (and it's start I-frames) manually and corrected a start frames of each scenes in the celltime list with new remux (rechaptered movie in fact). Unfortunately, I find this error after I return an original DVD. Now I have a fully corrected DVD and can't give you original for analysis:-(.

[bigotti5]

If a cells and PGC time are wrong, then next/previous chapter entry points are wrong too.

IMO chapters are calculated from PTT_SRPTI -> you see "Program number" -> go to VTS_PCITI - VTS_PGCx - PGC Program map - you see "Entry cell number". This is the related cell to the PTT. This cell is accessed by the lba value from VTS_C_ADT. So wrong time does not affect chapter entry points.

But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?

What do you mean?

[President]

Originally Posted by bigotti5

IMO chapters are calculated from PTT_SRPTI -> you see "Program number" -> go to VTS_PCITI - VTS_PGCx - PGC Program map - you see "Entry cell number". This is the related cell to the PTT. This cell is accessed by the lba value from VTS_C_ADT.

As I know a chapter (cell) will start play from value (sector#) contained in VTS_PGCITI -> VTS_PGC_# -> Cell_#: entry point sector.

Originally Posted by bigotti5

So wrong time does not affect chapter entry points.

Yes, you're right. I was wrong. Cell/movie time (and VID/CID) is not a primary parameter. I just want to say that all factors (VID/CID, Sector#, TimeMap, Cell/Movie playtime) must be adjusted (recalculated) to it correct values (it might be as well). r0lZ understood and agreed with me without offtop discussions:-). But thank you too for your circumstantiality. You always dig to bottom. It's a good. I knew many important things from you. Thank's.

>> But this feature (29.97 fps) must give accumulating error effect. Or not?
>What do you mean?
I mean a drop/non-drop timecode differences. At 1 hour a difference is ~3.6 sec. At 2 hour is ~7.2 sec and so on.

[r0lZ]

This discussion is very interesting!
I have already added the code to fix the wrong time codes in the PGC.

The internal calculations of the "Rebuild time map" function are made with the VOBU start and end presentation time (90 KHz clock). It's easy to convert the timings to frames in PAL, but not so easy with the crappy NTSC drop-frame time code format!
Currently, I divide the clock by 90000 to compute the number of seconds in PAL, and by 90090 in NTSC. Since the drop-frame time code format is somewhat weired, I'm not sure it's the right way to do, however, the result is identical with the only NTSC DVD I have (not ARccOS protected.)
If someone knows how to do the conversion exactly, I'll appreciate some help.

Anyway, I have released PgcEdit_winexe_7.4beta1.zip. Could you test it, especially with NTSC material? Also, I wonder if it works fine with ARccOS protected DVDs.

Thanks for your help!

[President]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

I have already added the code to fix the wrong time codes in the PGC.
Anyway, I have released PgcEdit_winexe_7.4beta1.zip. Could you test it, especially with NTSC material?

Hi.
Thank's for new release.
I checked a new PGCEdit release with 2 NTSC DVD which I have now (Tomb Raider and Tomb Raider 2). Unfortunately, change nothing:-(. Wrong timemap still stay in IFO's. Warning:

Time Map tables
DVD-TEXT General Name: ""
Provider ID: "MPUCODER"
Number of VTS: 1
-------------------- VTS 1 --------------------
1 VTS_TMAP tables defined in VTS_TMAPTI for 1 PGCs.

VTST 1 , 1   TTN 1  (1:57:09)  Title 1  (sequential title)
1759 x 4 seconds =   1:57:16 ; ********** WARNING! **********
------------------- Summary -------------------
VTST 1 , 1   TTN 1  (1:57:09)  Title 1: Wrong TMAP duration

In addition, I checked with Total Commander and OS Filecompare utility (fc.exe) a new and original IFOs (before/after timemap plugin using). All files are absolutely identical:-((. What your utility doing? Maybe you forgot to write an overpatching to IFO?

BTW, r0lZ, you placed on your homepage (videohelp) a plugin list with Timemap plugin v1.0. Now I have (downloaded early) a v1.1 (Plugins - Time map - About). What is it?
Aaaa, I see. It just a string into plugin "set version 1.1". I changed it to 1.0. Please, no penalty to me for this copyright violation:-)).

[blutach]

@r0lZ - thanks heaps for fixing my 2 little problems in this beta.

Regards

[President]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

Currently, I divide the clock by 90000 to compute the number of seconds in PAL, and by 90090 in NTSC. Since the drop-frame time code format is somewhat weired, I'm not sure it's the right way to do, however, the result is identical with the only NTSC DVD I have (not ARccOS protected.)

Good idea. I verified your calculation on Tomb Raider (manually). It works.

OOPS!
I think I found an error. It seems an identification error of stream type (PAL/NTSC) or just incorrect uses a divisor (90000 or 90090). In Tomb Raider a last entry of timemap is 1759, start sector is 2236550 (see my IFOs at Lara2.zip). This sector contains a "VOBU start presentation time" is 633230329. Thus:

633230329 / 90000 = 7036 or 1:57:16 (that be indicating as "wrong" timemap).
633230329 / 90090 = 7029 or 1:57:09 (as wrote at movie playtime).

Please look this condition in your program (90000 or 90090 divisor) and check it.