Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > New and alternative a/v containers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th November 2012, 03:50   #12941  |  Link
shadowdogg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Hi Samurai, hopefully your still around as your extremely helpful. So I looked at the audio render business and found that if I changed to MPC audio render it then does exactly what I want it to do (i.e. show up as the PCM e.g. 44.1khz) on my system, but usually default stuff is rubbish so just want to check whether that is actually terrible or whether the audio render actually makes a difference if LAV is already doing the 'work' but the render is just telling it where to go (which I assume is possibly what reclock does anyway).

Blast... only on 44.1khz does it decide to do what I want, on 48khz it does the usual nonsense. Hmm... please explain wise samurai

Last edited by shadowdogg; 16th November 2012 at 03:53.
shadowdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 03:54   #12942  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,357
I think you're not fully understanding what bitstreaming means. It seems to be what you're after, but, you don't understand the ramifications of it. Bypassing the Windows Audio mixer means that the audio is completely untouched. Bit perfect in every way. So as long as the renderer sends it untouched, and MPC audio renderer will do exclusive mode, then you're good to go. So no need to worry about it "messing" with the audio.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 04:13   #12943  |  Link
shadowdogg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
I think you're not fully understanding what bitstreaming means. It seems to be what you're after, but, you don't understand the ramifications of it. Bypassing the Windows Audio mixer means that the audio is completely untouched. Bit perfect in every way. So as long as the renderer sends it untouched, and MPC audio renderer will do exclusive mode, then you're good to go. So no need to worry about it "messing" with the audio.
Ok, though I seem to be having trouble with a particular type of audio from this anime. Checked other anime and it was fine, so I decided to jot down which worked and which didnt

one that didn't work:
FLAC 48Khz, stereo, S24

ones that did
AAC 48khz, stereo,
FLAC 48khz, Stereo, S12
AC3, 48Khz, stereo, 320kB/s

So.. I assume it is to do with S24, 24-bit? I assume it is the limitation of the MPC audio render?
shadowdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 04:15   #12944  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,357
You can't bitstream FLAC.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 04:29   #12945  |  Link
shadowdogg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbomb View Post
what is the channel count in what you are playing?
you might have to use lav audio's mixer.
also, use 24 bit padded to 32.
Hi mindbomb, I didn't see your post. I think this was actually the problem all along... ahahah

Many thanks to you and Samurai. I did look on net about MPC audio renderer and it is a bit too glitchy for my taste so... I will keep with reclock

Now to play with my audio/video sync which I always have issues with
shadowdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 08:03   #12946  |  Link
Aleksoid1978
Registered User
 
Aleksoid1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Russia, Vladivostok
Posts: 2,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion View Post
I can confirm it doesn't affect MPC-HC. So probably not an issue with LAV. Guess I will just keep using HC.
MPC-BE - can disable internal Subtitle/Audio track select logic:


Disable this checkbox.
__________________
I7 2600K@4.2 /Asrock P67 Extreme4 Gen 3 /Kingston HyperX 8Gb 1866 (4x2) Kit /OCZ Vertex 3 256Gb /Gigabyte GTX 960 /BenQ EW2430 /LG 47LM620T /Yamaha RX-V471 + NS-555 + NS-C444 + NS-333 + YST-SW215
Aleksoid1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 11:19   #12947  |  Link
Xaurus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 286
nev,

Seems that lav splitter has some trouble recognizing this dts-hd ma 7.1 track.

Here's BDinfo and a scan of the cover:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/5c3b11220653747
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/...g/Arg2EEAB.jpg

Then here's what lav splitter reports:
http://thumbnails102.imagebam.com/22066/11d69c220653623.jpg
__________________
SETUP: Win 10, MPC-HC, LAV, MadVR
HARDWARE: Corsair 400Q | Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5 | Noctua NH-U9S | SuperMicro X11SSZ-TLN4F | Samsung 2x8GB DDR4 ECC | Samsung 850 EVO 1TB | MSI GTX 1060 | EVGA G2 750
Xaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 11:46   #12948  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 9,859
This is normal, its just a visual problem, ignore it.
Because ffmpeg doesn't support DTS-HD MA, it will just show the info from the core track.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 12:31   #12949  |  Link
mcn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Are there any pluses or minuses between using avcodec or cuvid strictly for MPEG2 decoding in LAV Video? Exact same thing quality wise?
The quality is the same on all decoders. The only difference is where the decoding is done, in the CPU or the GPU.
Does this apply for all the codecs or only for MPEG-2?

Also, is hardware (in particular with cuvid) deinterlacing qualitatively better than software deinterlacing?

I'm asking because I probably will have to stop using hardware decoding altogether since when using ProgDVB (6.90.1, x86) with LAV Video (0.53.2, x86) I get a black picture on H.264 channels.
This happens when cuvid acceleration is enabled.

I tried all the available renderers but it doesn't fix the issue.

Software decoding works fine, as does DXVA2 (native) decoding.
DXVA2 (copy-back) is "slow", it seems to drop frames, meaning that I see a new frame about each second.

MPEG-2 with cuvid works fine on ProgDVB.

With MPC-HC (x86) I have no problems with H.264 and cuvid acceleration.

I'm on Windows 8 x64 with Nvidia drivers 306.97.

If it might be of interest, to help reproduce the issue I uploaded a short H.264 clip recorded with ProgDVB at:
http://bayfiles.com/file/rRSJ/2HNecp/sample.ts

Opening it with ProgDVB and using LAV Video with cuvid acceleration shows a black picture. It plays just fine with MPC-HC.
mcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 12:51   #12950  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,474
Hi nev, thanks for your ongoing work on this killer package!

BTW, I was wondering how you'd feel about adding post-processing capabilities? I realize that you said you didn't want to make it yet another ffdshow, but as much as I've managed to get stereo 32fp VST plugin support/lossy audio decoding in ffdshow after a lot of whining to several coders, its video side is still done in YV12 which is a major no-go and summons the noise gremlins like you wouldn't believe

For the record, here's the diff between 8bit processing on the Sanyo PLV-Z2 and 10bit on the Z3:



I owned both simultaneously a while ago, and I can assure you that the Z2 was truly as snowy as shown on this picture when rolling them one after the other....300 was unwatchable on the Z2

The Z4 went 12bit, just like all major videoprojectors these days.

A friend of mine is forced to process his 5.1 Digital Room Correction using the sloppy AC3 Filter EQ so he would die to get proper 32fp VST plugin support. At this stage, the only way to do that is to buy a pricey pro-audio board such as RME's and do a whole bunch of rerouting in their drivers(but then you can't output audio via lossless HDMI anymore).....a multi-channel VAC is technically possible under XP, but not under W7/W8 anymore so using a rewired VST Host is also a no-go.

All this said, I use a fairly high-end headphones rig so 32fp stereo VST plugin support in ffdshow truly hits the spot for my own use. My real problem is that I would love to be able to process video effects such as flipping/mirroring/levels conversion/framerate interpolation(the artifacts-free "motion flow" of the mid-range Sammy TV's has completely spoiled me ) in 16bit, in order to feed mVR without going through several utterly lossy 8bit conversions.

The ability to make automatic profiles based on resolution/frame rate just like in ffdshow would be the icing on the cake and quite frankly I don't think it's really the job of a VR to take care of all this. Also, madshi is already swamped with feature requests

Or maybe you could add VaporSynth support? From what I understood it's like Avisynth, just not limited to 8bit output this time.

8bit video processing is really sending us back to the stone age, it would be like processing audio in 16int instead of 64fp

And soon or later, it will be possible to output 10bit off mVR so your 16bit video processing software layer would be a strong asset.

for even considering it, this would be amazing to finally be able to process video in 16bit on a PC...mVR+Reclock is the unstoppable train, but it'd need air conditioning and genuine leather chairs pretty badly at this point

Last edited by leeperry; 16th November 2012 at 15:53.
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 13:23   #12951  |  Link
leeperry
Kid for Today
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,474
Oh, and I forgot, this would finally allow me to put some load on the CPU because when feeding vanilla CUVID to mVR, my old GPU has to do all the work while my Q9450 is taking it easy
leeperry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 14:54   #12952  |  Link
Xaurus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
This is normal, its just a visual problem, ignore it.
Because ffmpeg doesn't support DTS-HD MA, it will just show the info from the core track.
Shame on ffmpeg then.
__________________
SETUP: Win 10, MPC-HC, LAV, MadVR
HARDWARE: Corsair 400Q | Intel Xeon E3-1260L v5 | Noctua NH-U9S | SuperMicro X11SSZ-TLN4F | Samsung 2x8GB DDR4 ECC | Samsung 850 EVO 1TB | MSI GTX 1060 | EVGA G2 750
Xaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 15:49   #12953  |  Link
Moony349
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
Just curious, xy-vsfilter is not enough?
xy-vs filter is enough... but it's not perfect. The biggest issue is when you upscale a DVD source to 1080p, the subs (sign posts, etc.) look pretty crappy.

Since I'm fairly certain we're all perfectionists here (why else would we be obsessing over upscaling algorithms etc.), and Madshi has shown that he's willing to work on this, wouldn't it be great if subtitles were upscaled by the renderer (MadVR)? This way, we avoid all of the inconsistencies in scaling, timing, colorspace etc. that plague other subtitle filters that don't integrate with madvr. Plus, xy-vs is slow.

Since almost everyone that uses LAV uses MadVR, it makes perfect sense to integrate the two with regard to subtitling.
Moony349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 15:52   #12954  |  Link
Keiyakusha
契約者
 
Keiyakusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moony349 View Post
xy-vs filter is enough... but it's not perfect. The biggest issue is when you upscale a DVD source to 1080p, the subs (sign posts, etc.) look pretty crappy.

Since I'm fairly certain we're all perfectionists here (why else would we be obsessing over upscaling algorithms etc.), and Madshi has shown that he's willing to work on this, wouldn't it be great if subtitles were upscaled by the renderer (MadVR)? This way, we avoid all of the inconsistencies in scaling, timing, colorspace etc. that plague other subtitle filters that don't integrate with madvr. Plus, xy-vs is slow.

Since almost everyone that uses LAV uses MadVR, it makes perfect sense to integrate the two with regard to subtitling.
You don't have enough information on the topic. From what you say I can conclude that xy-vsfilter is enough.

Edit: Actually not enough information maybe a too weak description. Your "xy-vs is slow." which is in fact fastest sub renderer out there, tells for itself (or simply trolling).

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 16th November 2012 at 15:57.
Keiyakusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 15:56   #12955  |  Link
Moony349
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
You don't have enough information on the topic. From what you say I can conclude that xy-vsfilter is enough.

Actually not enough information maybe a too weak description. Your "xy-vs is slow." which is in fact fastest sub renderer out there, tells for itself.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm definitely no expert. I think xy-vs is great. I was just wondering if, essentially, LAV could kind of include xy-vs; if you will, modified to work with MadVR's new subtitle interface.

When i say slow, I mean, xy-vs upscaling increases rendering time significantly, because xy-vs is upscaling AND madVR is upscaling at the same time. It's probably more efficient if MadVR just upscales everything at once, wouldn't you say?
Moony349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 16:02   #12956  |  Link
SamuriHL
Registered User
 
SamuriHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 4,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moony349 View Post
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm definitely no expert. I think xy-vs is great. I was just wondering if, essentially, LAV could kind of include xy-vs; if you will, modified to work with MadVR's new subtitle interface.

When i say slow, I mean, xy-vs upscaling increases rendering time significantly, because xy-vs is upscaling AND madVR is upscaling at the same time. It's probably more efficient if MadVR just upscales everything at once, wouldn't you say?
As he said, you don't appear to have all the info. The developers are already adding the support you're asking for. No need for Nev to do anything about it.
__________________
HTPC: Windows 10, I9 9900k, RTX 2070 Founder's Edition, Pioneer Elite VSX-LX303, LG C8 65" OLED
SamuriHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 16:02   #12957  |  Link
madshi
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,137
xy-vsfilter is not supposed to upscale, unless you custom-configure it that way. There's also no reason for nevcairiel to integrate xy-vsfilter into LAV because an xy-vsfilter version with support for the new subtitle interface is already in the works (by the xy-vsfilter developer, not by nevcairiel). nev once hinted he might (or not) do a libAss subtitle renderer. But since then xy-vsfilter has gotten quite a bit faster, so it's a question worth asking if a libAss DirectShow subtitle renderer would be worth the effort now.
madshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 16:03   #12958  |  Link
Keiyakusha
契約者
 
Keiyakusha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moony349 View Post
It's probably more efficient if MadVR just upscales everything at once, wouldn't you say?
Absolutely not. I say that the best way is when upscale is not needed at all. (oops too late)
Keiyakusha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 16:11   #12959  |  Link
Moony349
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
xy-vsfilter is not supposed to upscale, unless you custom-configure it that way. There's also no reason for nevcairiel to integrate xy-vsfilter into LAV because an xy-vsfilter version with support for the new subtitle interface is already in the works (by the xy-vsfilter developer, not by nevcairiel). nev once hinted he might (or not) do a libAss subtitle renderer. But since then xy-vsfilter has gotten quite a bit faster, so it's a question worth asking if a libAss DirectShow subtitle renderer would be worth the effort now.
Thanks Madshi!

I was under the impression that xy-vs had stopped being developed, hence my asking Nev about a different filter.

Good to hear that an integrated xy-vs is already in the works (excited).

Also, Keiyakusha, thanks for correcting me. As I said, I'm no expert. I'm just curious.

Last edited by Moony349; 16th November 2012 at 16:14.
Moony349 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2012, 17:51   #12960  |  Link
Skibicki
Registered User
 
Skibicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiyakusha View Post
Actually not enough information maybe a too weak description. Your "xy-vs is slow." which is in fact fastest sub renderer out there
Quote:
The more complex and numerous the holes, gaps, or notches in a font outline, the slower it will render.
According to this thread, it depends on the font. http://www.cccp-project.net/forums/index.php?topic=5976.msg42091#msg42091
__________________
Win 8.1 -- Core 2 Duo E7300 & Intel Q43 GMA 4500
Skibicki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
decoders, directshow, filters, splitter

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 20:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.